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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Dec 12, 2014 23:05:02 GMT
Russell Brand is a great man, one of the few people with a public platform who is using that powerful privilege help those who need it the most. I think it's disgusting but not at all surprising that the media is waging a war to turn the very people Russell is trying to help against him. It is translucent admittedly, but if you have any sort of intelligence or initiative whatsoever it's as good as transparent. The media, the politicians, the corporations and the super-rich are all working in conjunction in the pursuit of money and power. Brand is supporting schemes being started by groups of oppressed people that attempt to force the aforementioned groups to release small pieces of their wealth and power. Simultaneously it's showing the rest of the country that affirmative-action and people-power can produce positive results. Reading the majority of comments in this thread, I find it overwhelmingly tragic and heart-breaking that the majority of people who Brand is seeking to help are far too retarded to realise they need it. I don't want to take anything away from what you've said, (and you've probably not calmed down yet), but most (not all) of what you've written, could have been said by Minnie when he was on his UKIP/Nigel soapbox.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 23:21:54 GMT
I don't want to take anything away from what you've said, (and you've probably not calmed down yet), but most (not all) of what you've written, could have been said by Minnie when he was on his UKIP/Nigel soapbox. I don't have knowledge of the reference you're making and as a result don't really understand your post. Could you please elaborate for me?
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Post by kbillyh on Dec 12, 2014 23:22:32 GMT
Russell Brand is a great man, one of the few people with a public platform who is using that powerful privilege help those who need it the most. I think it's disgusting but not at all surprising that the media is waging a war to turn the very people Russell is trying to help against him. It is translucent admittedly, but if you have any sort of intelligence or initiative whatsoever it's as good as transparent. The media, the politicians, the corporations and the super-rich are all working in conjunction in the pursuit of money and power. Brand is supporting schemes being started by groups of oppressed people that attempt to force the aforementioned groups to release small pieces of their wealth and power. Simultaneously it's showing the rest of the country that affirmative-action and people-power can produce positive results. Reading the majority of comments in this thread, I find it overwhelmingly tragic and heart-breaking that the majority of people who Brand is seeking to help are far too retarded to realise they need it. I don't want to take anything away from what you've said, (and you've probably not calmed down yet), but most (not all) of what you've written, could have been said by Minnie when he was on his UKIP/Nigel soapbox. Quite ridiculous. There is no angry tone in that post (so why the calm down snipe) and the opposite is true of Farage....The media give him blanket coverage, we are all invited to hear and debate Ukip's message over and over, they are the new alternative they have thrust upon us. Brand however is just rubbished for being who he is, no mention of the issues he raises.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 13, 2014 2:28:40 GMT
Where's the RipRoaring Umpire gone?
I've seen several stumpings, a couple of folk who've refused to come out and face the ball, and there's MickMills at the very least who's started to bat for the other side...
More power to Russell's elbow. Where the fuck are Ben Elton and Billy Bragg in all this?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 2:31:38 GMT
Probably moved into Brands new plush pad in LA....?
Power to the oppressed I say....
Rock on revolution.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 13, 2014 2:52:58 GMT
Probably moved into Brands new plush pad in LA....? Power to the oppressed I say.... Rock on revolution. Hopefully they've sorted the sprinkler system out in Brand's Castle.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Dec 13, 2014 9:43:27 GMT
I don't want to take anything away from what you've said, (and you've probably not calmed down yet), but most (not all) of what you've written, could have been said by Minnie when he was on his UKIP/Nigel soapbox. I don't have knowledge of the reference you're making and as a result don't really understand your post. Could you please elaborate for me? Minnie AKA Fraser, up until recently was a high profile poster on these pages, I'm not sure why he quit (again). Fraise was the number one cheerleader for Nigel Farage, and would take on all challenges against him, just like The Edge is doing here. He would regularly tell the world how the media is against UKIP and Nigel in particular. The argument started to fall a bit flat when we found out that he is now good buddies with Rupert Murdoch...
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Dec 13, 2014 9:49:38 GMT
I don't want to take anything away from what you've said, (and you've probably not calmed down yet), but most (not all) of what you've written, could have been said by Minnie when he was on his UKIP/Nigel soapbox. Quite ridiculous. There is no angry tone in that post (so why the calm down snipe) and the opposite is true of Farage....The media give him blanket coverage, we are all invited to hear and debate Ukip's message over and over, they are the new alternative they have thrust upon us. Brand however is just rubbished for being who he is, no mention of the issues he raises. We will have to disagree on my statement being ridiculous. Stokiepmre89's post sounded like he was getting something off his chest to me, but that's the problem with a notice board, the tone of a statement can get completely lost. What you call a snipe, was meant to be a bit of ribbing. It's now up to you to decide whether I'm having a pop at you, or simply calling things as I see them.
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Post by kbillyh on Dec 13, 2014 10:16:47 GMT
Quite ridiculous. There is no angry tone in that post (so why the calm down snipe) and the opposite is true of Farage....The media give him blanket coverage, we are all invited to hear and debate Ukip's message over and over, they are the new alternative they have thrust upon us. Brand however is just rubbished for being who he is, no mention of the issues he raises. We will have to disagree on my statement being ridiculous. Stokiepmre89's post sounded like he was getting something off his chest to me, but that's the problem with a notice board, the tone of a statement can get completely lost. What you call a snipe, was meant to be a bit of ribbing. It's now up to you to decide whether I'm having a pop at you, or simply calling things as I see them. That's fair enough comment regarding the message board vibes mate, i certainly wouldn't take that as having a pop. I was mainly taking issue with the seemingly casual comparison between Farage and Brand though, apples and oranges, with one of them being a poisonous cunt. Just couldn't let that pass after having a couple of scoops.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 13, 2014 10:36:38 GMT
I don't have knowledge of the reference you're making and as a result don't really understand your post. Could you please elaborate for me? Minnie AKA Fraser, up until recently was a high profile poster on these pages, I'm not sure why he quit (again). Fraise was the number one cheerleader for Nigel Farage, and would take on all challenges against him, just like The Edge is doing here. He would regularly tell the world how the media is against UKIP and Nigel in particular. The argument started to fall a bit flat when we found out that he is now good buddies with Rupert Murdoch... You can't make a comparison between what Brand and Farage are doing. To save myself time re-typing what I've already said previously this is what Brand is doing; Some people expect way too much of him, he's not the new messiah, he's not going to lead a revolution that transforms our society into a paradise. He hasn't got the answers to solve these 'problems he's so bothered about'. No-one has got these answers at the moment not even career politicians.
He doesn't need to.
I'm absolutely fine with him using his fame to highlight issues/problems that are relevant in our society, like the firefighters union, like the New Era estate etc. The more he draws attention to these things (a lot of people follow him) the more people know and the more pressure there is on the government, corporations and media to change things.
He doesn't have to change the world, he only needs to make a contribution in a positive way like everyone else should. And for me he's doing it.I've never suggested that all the media are against him (and I don't think anyone during this debate has), because if they were he wouldn't be getting airtime on Newsnight, on QT etc. Some are against him sure because he's taken issue with the mainstream media, he's speaking up against the 'big boys' (the government, corporations and the media) But after how 'The Sun' laughably tried to make him look bad I don't think we're going to be finding out he's big buddies with Rupert Murdoch anytime soon do you? Now lets take a look at Farage, he is saying he's got the answers to solve problems, it's why he's the leader of his political party. Has Farage attacked the media? Of course he hasn't because he needs them on his side, he's also not saying that the media are part of the problem he's actually building his campaign around blaming some of the poorest people in our society. www.theguardian.com/media/2014/dec/12/richard-desmond-donation-ukip-nigel-farage?CMP=share_btn_twThe worrying thing is he's big buddies with Rupert Murdoch and it now seems with Richard Desmond, along with the Daily Mail's default stance on immigration he's actually in danger of getting some real traction behind him. Which can't be good. Interestingly enough for people saying Brand has no influence etc, its funny how he compares Farage with Enoch Powell and then this starts happening. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/13/nigel-farage-enoch-powell-ukip_n_6319212.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitterwww.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/13/nigel-farage-enoch-powell-endorsement-russell-brand?CMP=twt_guwww.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11291406/Revealed-how-Nigel-Farage-and-Ukip-begged-for-Enoch-Powells-support.htmlKeep going Russ!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 13, 2014 13:46:07 GMT
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 13, 2014 13:53:37 GMT
I think it's a very well made point.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 13, 2014 14:09:26 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Dec 13, 2014 18:21:12 GMT
Already posted and irrelevant as to be fair anyone can apply for tickets and every member of the audience is a plant with views of every kind. Does being a ukip member exempt you from QT Every week there are labour supporters Tory supporters unite members teachers etc etc Is there any evidence that points to David dimbledy choosing him at the right time
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 13, 2014 18:43:23 GMT
Already posted and irrelevant as to be fair anyone can apply for tickets and every member of the audience is a plant with views of every kind. Does being a ukip member exempt you from QT Every week there are labour supporters Tory supporters unite members teachers etc etc Is there any evidence that points to David dimbledy choosing him at the right time Yep even if it was only asked with the sole intention of making Brand look bad he should have definitely answered the question better. No arguments from me here.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 13, 2014 18:56:48 GMT
Already posted and irrelevant as to be fair anyone can apply for tickets and every member of the audience is a plant with views of every kind. Does being a ukip member exempt you from QT Every week there are labour supporters Tory supporters unite members teachers etc etc Is there any evidence that points to David dimbledy choosing him at the right time It's not irrelevant though is it? He wasn't an average audience member was he? Agree with Edge though, Brand could have answered the question better.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:34:27 GMT
Quite ridiculous. There is no angry tone in that post (so why the calm down snipe) and the opposite is true of Farage....The media give him blanket coverage, we are all invited to hear and debate Ukip's message over and over, they are the new alternative they have thrust upon us. Brand however is just rubbished for being who he is, no mention of the issues he raises. We will have to disagree on my statement being ridiculous. Stokiepmre89's post sounded like he was getting something off his chest to me, but that's the problem with a notice board, the tone of a statement can get completely lost. What you call a snipe, was meant to be a bit of ribbing. It's now up to you to decide whether I'm having a pop at you, or simply calling things as I see them. Just to clear things up I confirm that richiebarker's summation is correct because I was angry when made that post and I still am.
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Post by kbillyh on Dec 13, 2014 19:48:39 GMT
Hahaha.....Fair enough.
I stand corrected.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 13, 2014 21:56:59 GMT
Some very good posts on this very good thread...Conducted in (large part) an agreeable manner.
To a very large extent, whether you agree or disagree with Brand is academic. What is unquestionable is that he has breathed some new life into Politics. You could argue that Brand is using his Cult Status to re-engage young people in the political process. That can only be a Good Thing.
On the other hand, after just watching 'QuestionTime' (three days after it went out) I was quite surprised to see how little Brand actually knows about politics. His grasp of the arguments are tenous to say the least. It's one thing to write or talk about the subject (to a largely converted audience) but to have to react to an audience spontaneously, who question what you say, is a completely different matter.
Only people who genuinely understand their subject can compete at thay level, and come out of it with any credibility. Sadly, Brand didn't. I am broadly sympathetic with Brands views about redistribution but he needs to be much more specific and politically articulate, in my opinion, to be taken seriously.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Dec 13, 2014 22:13:10 GMT
Some very good posts on this very good thread...Conducted in (large part) an agreeable manner. To a very large extent, whether you agree or disagree with Brand is academic. What is unquestionable is that he has breathed some new life into Politics. You could argue that Brand is using his Cult Status to re-engage young people in the political process. That can only be a Good Thing. On the other hand, after just watching 'QuestionTime' (three days after it went out) I was quite surprised to see how little Brand actually knows about politics. His grasp of the arguments are tenous to say the least. It's one thing to write or talk about the subject (to a largely converted audience) but to have to react to an audience spontaneously, who question what you say, is a completely different matter. Only people who genuinely understand their subject can compete at thay level, and come out of it with any credibility. Sadly, Brand didn't. I am broadly sympathetic with Brands views about redistribution but he needs to be much more specific and politically articulate, in my opinion, to be taken seriously. Spot on wizzard. How this muppet can be mentioned in the same breath as Benn or Chomsky shows how low standards have fallen in this country over the past couple of decades.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 13, 2014 22:24:38 GMT
Some very good posts on this very good thread...Conducted in (large part) an agreeable manner. To a very large extent, whether you agree or disagree with Brand is academic. What is unquestionable is that he has breathed some new life into Politics. You could argue that Brand is using his Cult Status to re-engage young people in the political process. That can only be a Good Thing. On the other hand, after just watching 'QuestionTime' (three days after it went out) I was quite surprised to see how little Brand actually knows about politics. His grasp of the arguments are tenous to say the least. It's one thing to write or talk about the subject (to a largely converted audience) but to have to react to an audience spontaneously, who question what you say, is a completely different matter. Only people who genuinely understand their subject can compete at thay level, and come out of it with any credibility. Sadly, Brand didn't. I am broadly sympathetic with Brands views about redistribution but he needs to be much more specific and politically articulate, in my opinion, to be taken seriously. Spot on wizzard. How this muppet can be mentioned in the same breath as Benn or Chomsky shows how low standards have fallen in this country over the past couple of decades. Absolutely. It's like comparing Ricardo Fuller with Dave Kitson or Bojan with Kavanagh. Brand looked lost on 'Question Time' where the audience isn't rammed with posh totty squealing for 'Russ'.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 13, 2014 22:33:18 GMT
Some very good posts on this very good thread...Conducted in (large part) an agreeable manner. To a very large extent, whether you agree or disagree with Brand is academic. What is unquestionable is that he has breathed some new life into Politics. You could argue that Brand is using his Cult Status to re-engage young people in the political process. That can only be a Good Thing. On the other hand, after just watching 'QuestionTime' (three days after it went out) I was quite surprised to see how little Brand actually knows about politics. His grasp of the arguments are tenous to say the least. It's one thing to write or talk about the subject (to a largely converted audience) but to have to react to an audience spontaneously, who question what you say, is a completely different matter. Only people who genuinely understand their subject can compete at thay level, and come out of it with any credibility. Sadly, Brand didn't. I am broadly sympathetic with Brands views about redistribution but he needs to be much more specific and politically articulate, in my opinion, to be taken seriously. Spot on wizzard. How this muppet can be mentioned in the same breath as Benn or Chomsky shows how low standards have fallen in this country over the past couple of decades. Point taken but I don't think he's attempting to be either.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Dec 13, 2014 22:40:56 GMT
Spot on wizzard. How this muppet can be mentioned in the same breath as Benn or Chomsky shows how low standards have fallen in this country over the past couple of decades. Point taken but I don't think he's attempting to be either. I don't know if he believes he is or isn't, although others earlier in the thread obviously believed him to be some new messiah.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 13, 2014 22:46:34 GMT
Point taken but I don't think he's attempting to be either. I don't know if he believes he is or isn't, although others earlier in the thread obviously believed him to be some new messiah. Not me he's just a comedian with a conscience.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 13, 2014 22:48:09 GMT
Perhaps it's only the Oatcake that is 'mentioning Brand in the same breath as Benn and Chomsky' though. The great thing for me about Russell is that he's opening up such discussions. I bet there are a few Oatcakers who've googled Chomsky on the back of this thread... surely that's a positive outcome if nowt else. It really fucks me off that there's very little dissent these days, music has become extremely bland, and that was always the root of foment. There aren't any protest songs {as far as I know} any more. But we do have better tools for communication, and I hope there's a head of steam building for change. Brand doesn't have to be the leader of it, but is certainly part of the momentum. Question Time is shite these days, a bit of pantomime, and whilst folk are lauding it as 'the Best Question Time Ever' it was a bit of frippery at best, akin to an episode of Jeremy Kyle with better clothes and bigger words... an entertainment. I'm disappointed that he bothered getting involved, it was a 'no win' situation- if he'd performed well, then critics would have complained about it being rehearsed or staged.. because he didn't acquit himself particularly well then he gets the brickbats anyways. Ill advised to step up I'd say, {especially given the makeup of the panel} but at least he had a go. I applaud Edge for setting up this debate, and it's funny {but not surprising} to see how it's developed over the pages... people sought to discredit Brand in an attempt to deny him a platform, and even questioned Edge's motivations in commenting on it... "why have you been a member for x years and are only commenting on this" etc.... Russell is scaring the reactionaries... keep on keeping on I say...
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Post by boothenboy75 on Dec 13, 2014 22:51:45 GMT
I don't know if he believes he is or isn't, although others earlier in the thread obviously believed him to be some new messiah. (rofl) Not me he's just a comedian with a conscience. I hope thats true and not that he's just an attention seeking, look at me, full of himself tosser.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 13, 2014 22:53:33 GMT
Brand is using his Cult Status to endorse views that I believe in. But the people following Brand don't really understand politics they are simply jumping on the bandwagon.
If Brand did a 'Julie Burchill' and swung from far left to right..overnight..the same people..I suspect, would support him.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 13, 2014 22:55:00 GMT
Perhaps it's only the Oatcake that is 'mentioning Brand in the same breath as Benn and Chomsky' though. The great thing for me about Russell is that he's opening up such discussions. I bet there are a few Oatcakers who've googled Chomsky on the back of this thread... surely that's a positive outcome if nowt else. It really fucks me off that there's very little dissent these days, music has become extremely bland, and that was always the root of foment. There aren't any protest songs {as far as I know} any more. But we do have better tools for communication, and I hope there's a head of steam building for change. Brand doesn't have to be the leader of it, but is certainly part of the momentum. Question Time is shite these days, a bit of pantomime, and whilst folk are lauding it as 'the Best Question Time Ever' it was a bit of frippery at best, akin to an episode of Jeremy Kyle with better clothes and bigger words... an entertainment. I'm disappointed that he bothered getting involved, it was a 'no win' situation- if he'd performed well, then critics would have complained about it being rehearsed or staged.. because he didn't acquit himself particularly well then he gets the brickbats anyways. Ill advised to step up I'd say, {especially given the makeup of the panel} but at least he had a go. I applaud Edge for setting up this debate, and it's funny {but not surprising} to see how it's developed over the pages... people sought to discredit Brand in an attempt to deny him a platform, and even questioned Edge's motivations in commenting on it... "why have you been a member for x years and are only commenting on this" etc.... Russell is scaring the reactionaries... keep on keeping on I say... That is an excellent post Cheese :-)
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Post by salopstick on Dec 13, 2014 23:12:55 GMT
Change can only happen at the ballot box that's the system in this country. Wether people like it or not
If you don't vote - no change Encourage people not to vote - no change Same old political figures and choices - no change
It's very easy to point out what's wrong with the country, easy to criticise.
A lot of what he says is cliche and not new, we all get that but mostly he's on his soap box quoting problems but no solutions
We can't change the system so we need to change the people in the system
Different people prepared to put themselves forward and serve.
It can be done. Ukip being an example regardless of wether you agree or disagree with what they say, both labour and Tory have to revist policies because of the rise of Ukip
Wizard is right. If brand went far right most of the people nodding would continue to nod,
It's a shame he doesn't run. Parliment is crying out for some independents using the platform to get their views heard nationally.
Another cliche, better to be in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 13, 2014 23:33:28 GMT
Change can only happen at the ballot box that's the system in this country. Wether peoptle like it or not If you don't vote - no change Encourage people not to vote - no change Same old political figures and choices - no change It's very easy to point out what's wrong with the country, easy to criticise. A lot of what he says is cliche and not new, we all get that but mostly he's on his soap box quoting problems but no solutions We can't change the system so we need to change the people in the system Different people prepared to put themselves forward and serve. It can be done. Ukip being an example regardless of wether you agree or disagree with what they say, both labour and Tory have to revist policies because of the rise of Ukip Wizard is right. If brand went far right most of the people nodding would continue to nod, It's a shame he doesn't run. Parliment is crying out for some independents using the platform to get their views heard nationally. Another cliche, better to be in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in That is an excellent post Salop Far better to be in that tent pissing out. Well said.
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