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Post by basingstokie on Nov 2, 2014 16:17:26 GMT
As long as we have them next weekend (& I'm sure we will) then I have no issue with not having them today. Imo - it annoys me when people start wearing them in October - 1 November at the earliest for me I have a pin badge poppy that I wear all year, does that annoy you? remembrance is for life not just November Annoys might be a slightly strong word and I agree that we must remember every day, but I don't need to wear a poppy to do that. Your choice is to do so and that's fine |
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Post by scfcmacca on Nov 2, 2014 17:20:52 GMT
I have a pin badge poppy that I wear all year, does that annoy you? remembrance is for life not just November Annoys might be a slightly strong word and I agree that we must remember every day, but I don't need to wear a poppy to do that. Your choice is to do so and that's fine Fair enough each to their own. I just thought it was a little silly getting annoyed at people wearing the other than November. |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 2, 2014 17:46:29 GMT
Wrongly, it's become a politicised symbol for patriotism and the ongoing deification "our lads" overseas. It's unfortunate that this is the case because the charity element and its original purpose of remembering the individual soldier are wonderful; but there's always an element of bias to it in terms of saying "they died for us... for freedom... for x y and z". Anyone who disagrees with that side, and thusly refuses to wear a poppy, is somehow looked at with disdain; it's almost a social taboo to not wear one, and that really riles me up. I refuse to be pressured into wearing one when I can't help but see it as having been hijacked to represent apologism for two oppressive, imperialist regimes knocking the crap out of each other.
That's not to say I disagree with poppies for those who want them, but the culture surrounding it has become misappropriated into some sort of fashion statement.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 17:54:52 GMT
They died so you cab choose not to wear one so you should
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 2, 2014 18:20:10 GMT
No they didn't, that's exactly my point. They died because they were either forced to, because they disagreed with German imperialism and the imminent perceived threat to their loved ones / British identity, or because they bought into British propaganda. That's not to trivialise their deaths in any way at all, but the war itself wasn't over freedom. That's the spin that was put on it.
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Post by no1972 on Nov 2, 2014 19:50:55 GMT
No they didn't, that's exactly my point. They died because they were either forced to, because they disagreed with German imperialism and the imminent perceived threat to their loved ones / British identity, or because they bought into British propaganda. That's not to trivialise their deaths in any way at all, but the war itself wasn't over freedom. That's the spin that was put on it. You knob its for all the people who have given there lives or limbs so we can walk the streets and still have the freedom of speech. And because of that sacrifice I can say what I want and you can say what you want even if I disagree, so show some respect because a lot of civilian's have also put there lives on the line for our freedom's. |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 2, 2014 20:32:30 GMT
A bunch of rich men who run countries and oppress people clashing in a dick-measuring contest was nothing to do with "freedom" in any meaningful context for me or you. If you think it was good vs evil then I suggest you read a little bit into the atrocities committed by the British Empire in its heydey; but you've taken everything I've said and are somehow making it seem like I'm being disrespectful to the Tommy. I'm not as I explicitly said in my first post, and you've done a top job of proving my original point that those who don't wear poppies are treated with disdain.
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Post by no1972 on Nov 2, 2014 22:05:27 GMT
A bunch of rich men who run countries and oppress people clashing in a dick-measuring contest was nothing to do with "freedom" in any meaningful context for me or you. If you think it was good vs evil then I suggest you read a little bit into the atrocities committed by the British Empire in its heydey; but you've taken everything I've said and are somehow making it seem like I'm being disrespectful to the Tommy. I'm not as I explicitly said in my first post, and you've done a top job of proving my original point that those who don't wear poppies are treated with disdain. Its also about the thousands that were innocent victims its called respect, but you are most probably at the age were you don't understand respect and that's one of the reasons the countrys in a state today. |
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Post by Linx on Nov 2, 2014 22:11:22 GMT
If we upset the Daily Mail it can only be a good thing. Besides, I've often wondered what it feels like to be Latvian.
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Post by stokiejoe on Nov 2, 2014 22:30:03 GMT
I have a pin badge poppy that I wear all year, does that annoy you? remembrance is for life not just November I must admit that I've gone down the pin badge route for a few years now - I have a few which stay on my outdoor jackets to save having to move them every time I change jackets. I have enough not to need to get any more so I just donate a sum each year to a poppy seller and DON'T take a poppy. I have treated myself and laydee in my life to a couple of poppies out of the moat in the Tower of London. They should arrive sometime in the next month or so. Not sure whether to "plant" mine in the garden or put it on display in the cottage. I wish I had the chance to get down to London to see them "in situ" before 11/11. Bought a couple myself and like you would love to have gone to see them in situ. |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 2, 2014 22:39:17 GMT
A bunch of rich men who run countries and oppress people clashing in a dick-measuring contest was nothing to do with "freedom" in any meaningful context for me or you. If you think it was good vs evil then I suggest you read a little bit into the atrocities committed by the British Empire in its heydey; but you've taken everything I've said and are somehow making it seem like I'm being disrespectful to the Tommy. I'm not as I explicitly said in my first post, and you've done a top job of proving my original point that those who don't wear poppies are treated with disdain. Its also about the thousands that were innocent victims its called respect, but you are most probably at the age were you don't understand respect and that's one of the reasons the countrys in a state today. So the country is in a state because I don't wear a poppy? |
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 2, 2014 23:34:22 GMT
Fervent nationalism across Europe was one of the causes of the First World War. It's a shame to see the poppy developing into a mandatory symbol of national pride for some people.
Millions sent to their slaughter and I fear the true lessons are being forgotten. Getting a poppy is such an easy shortcut to feeling better about ourselves. Force it on people and it becomes meaningless.
We should be forced to look at images of decomposing torn apart bodies of young men with unlived lives in muddy fields, rather than forced to wear a symbol. That bit should be a choice.
We can't let empty words such as "Pride" cause others to have to go through similar unthinkable horrors at some point in the future. I can't think of anything more terrfying than what happened 100 years ago. I have far more pity than pride.
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Post by harryh157 on Nov 3, 2014 14:07:38 GMT
I always thought that wearing the poppy this time of year was directly related to the poppy appeal whose purpose was to raise money for the RBL. Although in donating you are also remembering/ expressing gratitude etc. I also dislike the creeping move to the left of the symbolism of wearing the poppy, however, if the club is to support the appeal then the closer to the annual launch of the appeal they can adapt the shirts the more hope that others will be tempted to donate. I think this years appeal was launched on 29th Oct (ish) so anytime after it is appropriate.
Now rememberance is a specific act and for me should be done on the closest Sunday. If your team is away then the club are represented by the players, staff and away supporters. I'm sure most will conduct a personal silence on the 11th if possible so the lack of an opportunity to do it at a football ground should not matter.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 3, 2014 14:27:57 GMT
There is always some cunt who thinks he or she is educated enough to tell us the true meaning of this that or the other. I wear a poppy for a couple of reasons 1. I like to donate to a worthy cause and 2. it's no bad thing to remember, even if it's only a short period of time, what our soldiers and others went through.
To the people who like to tell us that wearing poppies is pointless, it has no meaning and other bollocks - just do one.
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Post by podolipotter on Nov 3, 2014 14:36:40 GMT
Its also about the thousands that were innocent victims its called respect, but you are most probably at the age were you don't understand respect and that's one of the reasons the countrys in a state today. So the country is in a state because I don't wear a poppy? I must say your photo as a clown is very, very apt. Clown! |
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Post by Northy on Nov 3, 2014 14:43:26 GMT
Just in case there is a person out there who does not know about these I bought one of theses Poppies £30 with P&P, made local in Staffs. poppies.hrp.org.uk/buy-a-poppy/They were also made in Derby. I volunteered there, assembled and planted some of them, it was back breaking work, especially when it was July and 35'c in that moat. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 16:09:20 GMT
Just in case there is a person out there who does not know about these I bought one of theses Poppies £30 with P&P, made local in Staffs. poppies.hrp.org.uk/buy-a-poppy/They were also made in Derby. I volunteered there, assembled and planted some of them, it was back breaking work, especially when it was July and 35'c in that moat. Good on you mate fantastic effort, looks incredible.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 16:30:37 GMT
A bunch of rich men who run countries and oppress people clashing in a dick-measuring contest was nothing to do with "freedom" in any meaningful context for me or you. If you think it was good vs evil then I suggest you read a little bit into the atrocities committed by the British Empire in its heydey; but you've taken everything I've said and are somehow making it seem like I'm being disrespectful to the Tommy. I'm not as I explicitly said in my first post, and you've done a top job of proving my original point that those who don't wear poppies are treated with disdain. ? but the purpose of the poppy wasn't to do with the rich men having a dick measuring contest! it was originally taken up and started by 1 American woman who took the references from "In flanders field" and decided to sell poppies to raise funds for the wounded American servicemen and by 1 French woman for funds to rehabilitate areas of France that had been destroyed in the war. it was then suggested that they be a symbol of remembrance for all that had died in war full stop. it was then suggested by Major George Howson that the RBL take it up as well and they were designed to be easy to assemble to make it easy for ex-servicemen who had lost limbs to gain employment after the war to help make them.....'I have been given a cheque for £2,000 to make poppies with. It is a large responsibility and will be very difficult. If the experiment is successful it will be the start of an industry to employ 150 men. I do not think it can be a great success, but it is worth trying. I consider the attempt ought to be made if only to give the disabled their chance.' the proceeds went to ex-servicemen, their widows and children. they are supposed to be for Remembrance for every soldier that has died in any war and are not specifically related to either of the world Wars at all. what you're basically saying is that because the Powers that fought these wars lied to us about the actual reasons for them being involved, we should therefore not show a mark of respect to the men and women that were forced to fight, die and be injured in those conflicts? basically it's a case of "I don't agree with the reasons behind why the various govts. went to war so fuck all the people that died in them"...it's NOT about WWI or WWII and it's certainly NOT about the governments that brought those servicemen and women into the war..it's about the individuals that died doing what they were ordered to! bizarre! |
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Post by superpej on Nov 3, 2014 17:51:38 GMT
Not disagreeing with remembering the fallen or giving money to forces charities but
Focussing on individuals who have died takes away from analysing the causes of wars and ways of preventing them which perhaps should be the aim. Today nationalism is on the march again, global poverty is on the increase and resource scarcity and climate change threaten the environment - what do we do invade Iraq and Afghanistan and bomb Libya following without criticism the self interest of America. What for? Well we do get our nuclear weapons in exchange albeit at huge tax payer expense.
No surprise service chiefs,nationalist politicians and arms manufacturers want to big up the contribution of our armed forces, for us to remember the sacrifice, to live in fear of national security and the UK slipping down the league table of nations - they want a bigger slice of money for defence and worry the country has lost its bottle to fight another war.
Basically my old man was in ww2 supposedly so that I could make my own mind up whether wear a red poppy a white poppy or no poppy at all. But sadly that's not how its turned out.
BTW I do think Boyan has a future in the premier league
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Post by metalhead on Nov 3, 2014 18:00:20 GMT
Fervent nationalism across Europe was one of the causes of the First World War. It's a shame to see the poppy developing into a mandatory symbol of national pride for some people. Millions sent to their slaughter and I fear the true lessons are being forgotten. Getting a poppy is such an easy shortcut to feeling better about ourselves. Force it on people and it becomes meaningless. We should be forced to look at images of decomposing torn apart bodies of young men with unlived lives in muddy fields, rather than forced to wear a symbol. That bit should be a choice. We can't let empty words such as "Pride" cause others to have to go through similar unthinkable horrors at some point in the future. I can't think of anything more terrfying than what happened 100 years ago. I have far more pity than pride. Very true and strangely enough, a similar nationalist movement is erupting over Europe as we speak. |
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Post by harryh157 on Nov 3, 2014 18:40:39 GMT
Buying a poppy will not lead to the next war it will just help the RBL continue to do a superb job for some of the victims of the previous ones. Service personnel do not choose who they fight that is done by the politicians that society elects; as a member of that society I'm happy to spend £5 per year and wear my poppy to make the statement that I support them when they come home.
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 3, 2014 18:47:31 GMT
Buying a poppy will not lead to the next war it will just help the RBL continue to do a superb job for some of the victims of the previous ones. Service personnel do not choose who they fight that is done by the politicians that society elects; as a member of that society I'm happy to spend £5 per year and wear my poppy to make the statement that I support them when they come home. Absolutely. People shouldn't stop buying them, that's ridiculous. They do much good with the money raised too. It should be a very personal choice though. We should be wary of getting preachy and almost forcing or guilt tripping people into buying them and making out those who don't are somehow a disgrace. I think it's that attitide that is potentially dangerous and damaging. |
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Post by spiderpuss on Nov 3, 2014 19:29:31 GMT
Agree Para, a few years ago you could just choose to wear a poppy and many did.
What I dislike about the whole thing now is that anyone who dares not to wear a poppy now finds their Twitter inbox full of bile, or if they are in the media then they will probably appear on page 11 of the Daily Mail.
I'm tired of all this pressure of wearing a poppy, no event or organisation can barely move before they must slap a cheap poppy on whatever shirt they are wearing.
I'm not entirely sure where all this pressure has come from, it's needs to go away as it's damaging the very cause it purports to support.
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Post by rawli on Nov 3, 2014 19:44:29 GMT
BBC are serial offenders. Everyone wears a brand new poppy so they obviously must have a bowl of them in makeup. It starts to become an empty gesture - I'm sure a lot of the media types wouldn't choose to wear them.
And as for the Strictly Come Dancing troop wearing sequinned ones, it's just embarrassing.
I buy a poppy and support what they do but forcing people in the public eye to wear them kind of defeats the object if the argument is that soldiers died for our freedom to choose.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 3, 2014 19:50:08 GMT
A bunch of rich men who run countries and oppress people clashing in a dick-measuring contest was nothing to do with "freedom" in any meaningful context for me or you. If you think it was good vs evil then I suggest you read a little bit into the atrocities committed by the British Empire in its heydey; but you've taken everything I've said and are somehow making it seem like I'm being disrespectful to the Tommy. I'm not as I explicitly said in my first post, and you've done a top job of proving my original point that those who don't wear poppies are treated with disdain. ? but the purpose of the poppy wasn't to do with the rich men having a dick measuring contest! it was originally taken up and started by 1 American woman who took the references from "In flanders field" and decided to sell poppies to raise funds for the wounded American servicemen and by 1 French woman for funds to rehabilitate areas of France that had been destroyed in the war. it was then suggested that they be a symbol of remembrance for all that had died in war full stop. it was then suggested by Major George Howson that the RBL take it up as well and they were designed to be easy to assemble to make it easy for ex-servicemen who had lost limbs to gain employment after the war to help make them.....'I have been given a cheque for £2,000 to make poppies with. It is a large responsibility and will be very difficult. If the experiment is successful it will be the start of an industry to employ 150 men. I do not think it can be a great success, but it is worth trying. I consider the attempt ought to be made if only to give the disabled their chance.' the proceeds went to ex-servicemen, their widows and children. they are supposed to be for Remembrance for every soldier that has died in any war and are not specifically related to either of the world Wars at all. what you're basically saying is that because the Powers that fought these wars lied to us about the actual reasons for them being involved, we should therefore not show a mark of respect to the men and women that were forced to fight, die and be injured in those conflicts? basically it's a case of "I don't agree with the reasons behind why the various govts. went to war so fuck all the people that died in them"...it's NOT about WWI or WWII and it's certainly NOT about the governments that brought those servicemen and women into the war..it's about the individuals that died doing what they were ordered to! bizarre! No, that's not what I'm saying in the slightest; my point was that the Poppy appeal, as I've already said above, started out as a noble cause and remains so; but the symbol of the Poppy itself has been misappropriated by nationalists and war apologists. This is in the same vein as symbols are taken and applied to different things all the time, in the same vein as the NF took the Union Flag as its own for a while. Now I'm obviously not saying that Union Flag bearers are all NF, but to look on Facebook and see Britain First proudly showing off their poppies as they spew their jingoistic crap about our glorious dead; that sits very uncomfortably with me. And it's not just that, it's people I know in real life who slap their poppies to their chest and salute our Empire going and giving the Boche a good seeing to, and use the poppy as a symbol about how "Britain used to be 'Great'". I completely agree with anyone who says that this is not morally right that the poppy should be seen that way, and I completely agree that it should be an apolitical badge representing a charity which helped people who through no fault of their own got their legs shot off or whatever. That's what it should be. But it's not; and when people start to politicise it (read the thread, it's happened time and time again on this page alone) and claim that I should wear one because I somehow owe my "freedom" to those poor men who died, and then call me a "knob" or a "clown" or say that it's my fault that the country is in such a state, that I get really pissed off; because it feels like I'm being bullied or shunned into wearing one. Not just here, you see on the Beeb anyone without a poppy on and next thing you know, hundreds of people ring in and complain. I suppose my main grievance is that it's become a social obligation to wear one as opposed to a personal demonstration of remembrance; and when that happens, it loses its original purpose anyway. If we could appreciate the senselessness of lost lives without attributing any virtue to the circumstances then I'd happily wear one. That's where my dick-measuring contest remark fits in. People are so scared to admit that these people lost their lives over nothing, that they always try to spin it to make it sound as though they didn't die in vain. I have never ever ever said "fuck all those that died", I've said the opposite multiple times on this thread. My not wearing a poppy should not be construed as that either; but remembrance should be a personal thing and just because I don't agree with this social expectation shouldn't mean my levels of respect get called into question either. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 9:35:40 GMT
? but the purpose of the poppy wasn't to do with the rich men having a dick measuring contest! it was originally taken up and started by 1 American woman who took the references from "In flanders field" and decided to sell poppies to raise funds for the wounded American servicemen and by 1 French woman for funds to rehabilitate areas of France that had been destroyed in the war. it was then suggested that they be a symbol of remembrance for all that had died in war full stop. it was then suggested by Major George Howson that the RBL take it up as well and they were designed to be easy to assemble to make it easy for ex-servicemen who had lost limbs to gain employment after the war to help make them.....'I have been given a cheque for £2,000 to make poppies with. It is a large responsibility and will be very difficult. If the experiment is successful it will be the start of an industry to employ 150 men. I do not think it can be a great success, but it is worth trying. I consider the attempt ought to be made if only to give the disabled their chance.' the proceeds went to ex-servicemen, their widows and children. they are supposed to be for Remembrance for every soldier that has died in any war and are not specifically related to either of the world Wars at all. what you're basically saying is that because the Powers that fought these wars lied to us about the actual reasons for them being involved, we should therefore not show a mark of respect to the men and women that were forced to fight, die and be injured in those conflicts? basically it's a case of "I don't agree with the reasons behind why the various govts. went to war so fuck all the people that died in them"...it's NOT about WWI or WWII and it's certainly NOT about the governments that brought those servicemen and women into the war..it's about the individuals that died doing what they were ordered to! bizarre! No, that's not what I'm saying in the slightest; my point was that the Poppy appeal, as I've already said above, started out as a noble cause and remains so; but the symbol of the Poppy itself has been misappropriated by nationalists and war apologists. This is in the same vein as symbols are taken and applied to different things all the time, in the same vein as the NF took the Union Flag as its own for a while. Now I'm obviously not saying that Union Flag bearers are all NF, but to look on Facebook and see Britain First proudly showing off their poppies as they spew their jingoistic crap about our glorious dead; that sits very uncomfortably with me. And it's not just that, it's people I know in real life who slap their poppies to their chest and salute our Empire going and giving the Boche a good seeing to, and use the poppy as a symbol about how "Britain used to be 'Great'". I completely agree with anyone who says that this is not morally right that the poppy should be seen that way, and I completely agree that it should be an apolitical badge representing a charity which helped people who through no fault of their own got their legs shot off or whatever. That's what it should be. But it's not; and when people start to politicise it (read the thread, it's happened time and time again on this page alone) and claim that I should wear one because I somehow owe my "freedom" to those poor men who died, and then call me a "knob" or a "clown" or say that it's my fault that the country is in such a state, that I get really pissed off; because it feels like I'm being bullied or shunned into wearing one. Not just here, you see on the Beeb anyone without a poppy on and next thing you know, hundreds of people ring in and complain. I suppose my main grievance is that it's become a social obligation to wear one as opposed to a personal demonstration of remembrance; and when that happens, it loses its original purpose anyway. If we could appreciate the senselessness of lost lives without attributing any virtue to the circumstances then I'd happily wear one. That's where my dick-measuring contest remark fits in. People are so scared to admit that these people lost their lives over nothing, that they always try to spin it to make it sound as though they didn't die in vain. I have never ever ever said "fuck all those that died", I've said the opposite multiple times on this thread. My not wearing a poppy should not be construed as that either; but remembrance should be a personal thing and just because I don't agree with this social expectation shouldn't mean my levels of respect get called into question either. so to sum up, if i'm reading you right.........you agree with the actual original purpose but feel the symbol itself has been hijacked and now "unofficially" represents feelings, people and opinions that you disagree with as they have decided to use it to promote and further their own political agendas? if that's the case mate then i can't disagree with that if you would rather not be associated with these kind of people. however, whilst i agree that some DO utiilise the poppy for inappropriate reasons and ones that certainly have little to do with the original purpose of it, i think that is a minority (which you will always always get) and don't believe for a second that anyone who is seen wearing it would be automatically tarred with the same brush as these people at all; i think the vast majority of people simply see it as remembrance and nothing more. just my opinion but i think you're taking an unnecessary stand against an issue that few would even recognise or be aware of in the first place and that's probably why you're suffering the kind of abuse on here that you are, namely that most people just don't see it like that at all. you're doing it simply because you want to refuse to be seen to be a member of a very tiny minority whilst putting forward an idea that the poppy in general nowadays represents something it shouldn't when for the huge majority it just isn't the case in any way. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 4, 2014 11:02:58 GMT
No, that's not what I'm saying in the slightest; my point was that the Poppy appeal, as I've already said above, started out as a noble cause and remains so; but the symbol of the Poppy itself has been misappropriated by nationalists and war apologists. This is in the same vein as symbols are taken and applied to different things all the time, in the same vein as the NF took the Union Flag as its own for a while. Now I'm obviously not saying that Union Flag bearers are all NF, but to look on Facebook and see Britain First proudly showing off their poppies as they spew their jingoistic crap about our glorious dead; that sits very uncomfortably with me. And it's not just that, it's people I know in real life who slap their poppies to their chest and salute our Empire going and giving the Boche a good seeing to, and use the poppy as a symbol about how "Britain used to be 'Great'". I completely agree with anyone who says that this is not morally right that the poppy should be seen that way, and I completely agree that it should be an apolitical badge representing a charity which helped people who through no fault of their own got their legs shot off or whatever. That's what it should be. But it's not; and when people start to politicise it (read the thread, it's happened time and time again on this page alone) and claim that I should wear one because I somehow owe my "freedom" to those poor men who died, and then call me a "knob" or a "clown" or say that it's my fault that the country is in such a state, that I get really pissed off; because it feels like I'm being bullied or shunned into wearing one. Not just here, you see on the Beeb anyone without a poppy on and next thing you know, hundreds of people ring in and complain. I suppose my main grievance is that it's become a social obligation to wear one as opposed to a personal demonstration of remembrance; and when that happens, it loses its original purpose anyway. If we could appreciate the senselessness of lost lives without attributing any virtue to the circumstances then I'd happily wear one. That's where my dick-measuring contest remark fits in. People are so scared to admit that these people lost their lives over nothing, that they always try to spin it to make it sound as though they didn't die in vain. I have never ever ever said "fuck all those that died", I've said the opposite multiple times on this thread. My not wearing a poppy should not be construed as that either; but remembrance should be a personal thing and just because I don't agree with this social expectation shouldn't mean my levels of respect get called into question either. so to sum up, if i'm reading you right.........you agree with the actual original purpose but feel the symbol itself has been hijacked and now "unofficially" represents feelings, people and opinions that you disagree with as they have decided to use it to promote and further their own political agendas? if that's the case mate then i can't disagree with that if you would rather not be associated with these kind of people. however, whilst i agree that some DO utiilise the poppy for inappropriate reasons and ones that certainly have little to do with the original purpose of it, i think that is a minority (which you will always always get) and don't believe for a second that anyone who is seen wearing it would be automatically tarred with the same brush as these people at all; i think the vast majority of people simply see it as remembrance and nothing more. just my opinion but i think you're taking an unnecessary stand against an issue that few would even recognise or be aware of in the first place and that's probably why you're suffering the kind of abuse on here that you are, namely that most people just don't see it like that at all. you're doing it simply because you want to refuse to be seen to be a member of a very tiny minority whilst putting forward an idea that the poppy in general nowadays represents something it shouldn't when for the huge majority it just isn't the case in any way. Agreed - there are a minority of idiots (and worse than idiots) who will attempt to hijack just about any noble cause for their own purposes. But, if we allow them to do it by not supporting the cause ourselves then, in a sense, they have "won" - because the only ones who suffer are the deserving people/causes the original idea was supposed to help. Over the years I've seen many good causes/charities etc. hijacked and, for a while, it put me off giving to their causes. Eventually, I realised that is not the way to defeat bigotry so, if anything, I have increased my contributions as my small way of trying to do my bit to put right some of the wrong headed attitudes of those who would be delighted if these appeals in a good cause failed. That said, we do live in a free country (fought for by many who are helped by the poppy appeal) so if someone simply doesn't want to give that is their prerogative and I won't condemn them for it - there should be no compulsion about charitable giving. Personally, I'll continue to dig a bit deeper.  |
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Post by podolipotter on Nov 4, 2014 11:21:04 GMT
You know if the UK had not abandoned severe penalties against treason, then we would have far less extreme left-wing clowns in the world today. Freedom of choice. Wear a poppy as a mark of respect and remembrance for the dead who, voluntarily or otherwise, fought and died so that we could have that choice. If you choose not to wear one, fine, but you don't have to hitch your horse to any passing political post that you wish to pursue in order to make your choice.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 4, 2014 11:29:44 GMT
You know if the UK had not abandoned severe penalties against treason, then we would have far less extreme left-wing clowns in the world today. Freedom of choice. Wear a poppy as a mark of respect and remembrance for the dead who, voluntarily or otherwise, fought and died so that we could have that choice. If you choose not to wear one, fine, but you don't have to hitch your horse to any passing political post that you wish to pursue in order to make your choice. I can agree with most of that but why single out the extreme left wing? I'd say over the past 100 years or so the country (and the West) has been threatened just as much by right wing extremists as those of the left. What we have to beware of is "extremism" whatever end of the political spectrum it is on. I'm not even sure that the current crop of extremists on the world stage are particularly left wing - totalitarianism and religious extremism seem to dominate their thinking rather than the politics of left or right. |
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Post by podolipotter on Nov 4, 2014 12:12:01 GMT
Fair point Lakeland - and I accept what you say.
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