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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 30, 2014 2:34:20 GMT
Time to give Muniesa a go I reckon, he impressed me last season with his cameo there. Wilson is an unlucky footballer to be fair, every mistake he makes seems to get punished. He fell asleep for the 2nd and you only have to look at his reaction as he punched the turf in anger to know that. Take him out the firing line for a couple of games and lets see what Muniesa can do.... Muniesa at CB? He is a great attacking wing-back but a Premier League centre back against a Sam Allardyce side? No chance. You obviously didnt see him man handle andy Carroll.
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Post by malteser68 on Oct 30, 2014 6:54:34 GMT
You can't blame him for the first or last goal. For the first goal yes we could of been tighter to Pelle but you've just got to hold your hands up and say it was a bloody good strike. Pieters was at fault for their winner, fuck knows what he was trying to do, summed up is whole night. Nah, he had way too much room. Whoever the centre half is should be up his backside and the midfield need to be snapping at his heels too. It was wank defending. Cracking finish don't get me wrong but easily avoidable. completely in agreement
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Post by malteser68 on Oct 30, 2014 6:56:44 GMT
Can't blame him for the first or last goal, but I noticed right away the second was a big mistake on his part. Shawcross had the fella crossing the ball in (not sure who it was) which was the obvious intent on the man with the ball, so why Marc left his man and went to close him down also is beyond me. Very eager to attack the ball unfortunately. Whether that's something they train to do however I'm not sure because I often see Marc closing down and Shawcross dropping deep when he does. He hasn't got a defensive brain. It's been there to see for the past 12 months. again completely in agreement. His only role at the club should be as a fringe utility player. Just not good enough to be our first choice central defender
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Post by Danstoke82 on Oct 30, 2014 8:18:49 GMT
Probably in the minority here but we really should of competed with QPR for Caulker in the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 8:31:14 GMT
Probably in the minority here but we really should of competed with QPR for Caulker in the summer. I doubt you're in a minority with that one mate. I also wanted us to sign Caulker, a defensive pairing of Shawcross and Caulker would have been most pleasant.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 30, 2014 8:32:32 GMT
Is Erik's position in doubt Saturday? An absolutely rancid display.
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Post by pez75 on Oct 30, 2014 8:35:32 GMT
Is Erik's position in doubt Saturday? An absolutely rancid display. Should be. Muniesa earned his place in the team last month but was dropped after one poor game. Same rules apply.
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Post by tracksuittony on Oct 30, 2014 11:24:14 GMT
Can't blame him for the first or last goal, but I noticed right away the second was a big mistake on his part. Shawcross had the fella crossing the ball in (not sure who it was) which was the obvious intent on the man with the ball, so why Marc left his man and went to close him down also is beyond me. Very eager to attack the ball unfortunately. Whether that's something they train to do however I'm not sure because I often see Marc closing down and Shawcross dropping deep when he does. Shawcross was about a mile away from the guy crossing the ball in. Okay, not toe to toe with him but certainly bearing down on him. The guy was never going to shoot from that angle so the only thing to do was cross. Marc should have read that and if anything, seeing where his man was, cut the angle out for the cross. He did neither and yet again was caught in two minds. Don't get me wrong there were other guilty parties in the build up to it but I'm just saying this is another example of Marc's slowness in reading the game. Not a top half CB by any stretch.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Oct 31, 2014 8:15:53 GMT
Probably in the minority here but we really should of competed with QPR for Caulker in the summer. I doubt you're in a minority with that one mate. I also wanted us to sign Caulker, a defensive pairing of Shawcross and Caulker would have been most pleasant. Really think they would of worked well together. Shame really.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 9:06:37 GMT
Marc Wilson needs a spell on the sidelines. He is making too many mistakes which are costing us too many goals.
I have just got back from holiday so didn't see the league game on Saturday but took the word from here that Crouch's header cost us the Southampton goal.
I've just watched it from MOTD coverage and it was Wilson's header so we can add another error to have cost us a goal.
How many is that he's culpable for now? It must be 80% of the goals we've conceded and that isn't even mentioning one/possibly two more from Wednesday night.
Muniesa in at centre half on Saturday for me.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Oct 31, 2014 9:16:32 GMT
The Southampton league match where Wilson was our best player,
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Post by Billybigbollox on Oct 31, 2014 9:24:04 GMT
It's a difficult one because Bardsley is out so I assume Cameron is in at RB. Pieters was shocking against Southampton midweek and so Muniesa could come in at LB. The whole defensive line could be a bit chaotic at the weekend. It is a real shame that Huth is out as he would improve the defence no end if he were fit.
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Post by thebet365 on Oct 31, 2014 9:38:03 GMT
Shawcross was about a mile away from the guy crossing the ball in. Okay, not toe to toe with him but certainly bearing down on him. The guy was never going to shoot from that angle so the only thing to do was cross. Marc should have read that and if anything, seeing where his man was, cut the angle out for the cross. He did neither and yet again was caught in two minds. Don't get me wrong there were other guilty parties in the build up to it but I'm just saying this is another example of Marc's slowness in reading the game. Not a top half CB by any stretch. Ryan was nowhere near him, he could easily have cut in towards goal so Wilson didn't really have a choice but to move towards him, there was 2 more stoke players in the box both nowhere near their men.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 9:40:36 GMT
The Southampton league match where Wilson was our best player, How can you be the best player when you cost your team a goal? There was no coverage of the league fixture in Lanzarote though so I can't put any argument to your comment as I didn't see the game. I have seen their goal this morning though and I don't see how any defender can be seen as his teams best player when he has cost them a goal.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 31, 2014 9:55:11 GMT
While I can agree that Wilson may need a spell out, the bare facts are we have no one good enough or fit enough to replace him. Muniesa at Centre Half? Car crash waiting to happen, especially against an in form Hammers side. Bardsley is out so Cameron must go at Right back. Maybe Muniesa in midfield but I'd go with N'Zonzi and Adam.
As for dropping players after one poor game, I don't think that is right at all. We haven't got the depth of squad to start doing that. What we do need at the moment is consistent selection - all these injuries and chopping and changing are screwing us.
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Post by pedro23 on Oct 31, 2014 9:59:30 GMT
With all the defensive know how and expertise being shown on this board, surely Hughes or his coaching staff are seeing it the same way, along with the Republic Ireland management, as to really how bloody useless Wilson is, and will therefore be dropping him immediately. So problem solved he will be out of the firing line and we can go back to no defensive mistakes and clean sheets from here on in.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 10:02:56 GMT
While I can agree that Wilson may need a spell out, the bare facts are we have no one good enough or fit enough to replace him. Muniesa at Centre Half? Car crash waiting to happen, especially against an in form Hammers side. Bardsley is out so Cameron must go at Right back. Maybe Muniesa in midfield but I'd go with N'Zonzi and Adam. As for dropping players after one poor game, I don't think that is right at all. We haven't got the depth of squad to start doing that. What we do need at the moment is consistent selection - all these injuries and chopping and changing are screwing us. Muniesa has done well at centre half though and arguably his best game for us came when he nullified the threat of Carroll in last seasons home win v West Ham.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 10:06:50 GMT
With all the defensive know how and expertise being shown on this board, surely Hughes or his coaching staff are seeing it the same way, along with the Republic Ireland management, as to really how bloody useless Wilson is, and will therefore be dropping him immediately. So problem solved he will be out of the firing line and we can go back to no defensive mistakes and clean sheets from here on in. The ROI has fuck all to do with Stoke City. All that matters is that Wilson is making too many mistakes whilst wearing a Stoke City shirt and as such needs to be dropped.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 31, 2014 10:09:57 GMT
While I can agree that Wilson may need a spell out, the bare facts are we have no one good enough or fit enough to replace him. Muniesa at Centre Half? Car crash waiting to happen, especially against an in form Hammers side. Bardsley is out so Cameron must go at Right back. Maybe Muniesa in midfield but I'd go with N'Zonzi and Adam. As for dropping players after one poor game, I don't think that is right at all. We haven't got the depth of squad to start doing that. What we do need at the moment is consistent selection - all these injuries and chopping and changing are screwing us. Muniesa has done well at centre half though and arguably his best game for us came when he nullified the threat of Carroll in last seasons home win v West Ham.
Fair point, but I remain unconvinced.
Don't envy the manager at the moment, injuries, lack of form now suspensions.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 10:16:36 GMT
Muniesa has done well at centre half though and arguably his best game for us came when he nullified the threat of Carroll in last seasons home win v West Ham.
Fair point, but I remain unconvinced.
Don't envy the manager at the moment, injuries, lack of form now suspensions.
That's why he's paid fortunes to make the decisions whilst we get paid a pittance for spending our days debating this shit when we are supposed to be working ourselves :-) Having seen the team line up posted by a West Ham fan on the other thread, I'm now wondering if this would work, keeping "legs" in midfield; Bego Wilson, Shawcross, Muniesa, Pieters Arnie, N'zonzi, Cameron, Moses Walters Diouf Adam, Assaidi and Ireland to influence things from the bench if needed.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 31, 2014 10:21:38 GMT
Fair point, but I remain unconvinced.
Don't envy the manager at the moment, injuries, lack of form now suspensions.
That's why he's paid fortunes to make the decisions whilst we get paid a pittance for spending our days debating this shit when we are supposed to be working ourselves :-) Having seen the team line up posted by a West Ham fan on the other thread, I'm now wondering if this would work, keeping "legs" in midfield; Bego Wilson, Shawcross, Muniesa, Pieters Arnie, N'zonzi, Cameron, Moses Walters Diouf Adam, Assaidi and Ireland to influence things from the bench if needed.
As usual I'd go for a more attacking option.
Begovic Cameron Shwcross Wilson Pieters Moses Adam N'Zonzi Arnautovic Bojan Diouf
Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/236240/stoke-city-west-ham-utd#ixzz3HiUkc600
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Post by pedro23 on Oct 31, 2014 11:20:53 GMT
With all the defensive know how and expertise being shown on this board, surely Hughes or his coaching staff are seeing it the same way, along with the Republic Ireland management, as to really how bloody useless Wilson is, and will therefore be dropping him immediately. So problem solved he will be out of the firing line and we can go back to no defensive mistakes and clean sheets from here on in. The ROI has fuck all to do with Stoke City. All that matters is that Wilson is making too many mistakes whilst wearing a Stoke City shirt and as such needs to be dropped. I am sure Hughes will follow your sage advice
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Post by droz on Oct 31, 2014 11:27:55 GMT
Marc Wilson needs a spell on the sidelines. He is making too many mistakes which are costing us too many goals. I have just got back from holiday so didn't see the league game on Saturday but took the word from here that Crouch's header cost us the Southampton goal. I've just watched it from MOTD coverage and it was Wilson's header so we can add another error to have cost us a goal. How many is that he's culpable for now? It must be 80% of the goals we've conceded and that isn't even mentioning one/possibly two more from Wednesday night. Muniesa in at centre half on Saturday for me. We've noticed tis trend too, many of the goals conceded this season can be at best partly and in many cases fully attributed to a Wilson error. The point earlier about Southampton's first goal the other night being a wonderful goal is true, but Marc still turned his back rather than trying to block the shot as a defender should. Defenders shouldn't be turning their backs, and on many an occasion he has been out of position, lost his man or flat footed. Often a case of two or even all three. The problem is with Huth out again and seemingly not in the manager's favour we have few options.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 31, 2014 11:48:07 GMT
Would any of you realistically drop him tomorrow? Coming up against an in-form West Ham. It could have disaster written all over it. If Huth was genuinely fit, I'd play him, but clearly Hughes just isn't seeing it and I trust his judgement on that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 13:03:07 GMT
Wilson will have to play because at the moment we have not got an outstanding replacement, Muni has done well, Geoff could do a job but he will have to play right back against West Ham, Jonny Tex will need time to develop. For me we need a new CB in January as a priority.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 13:05:04 GMT
Marc Wilson needs a spell on the sidelines. He is making too many mistakes which are costing us too many goals. I have just got back from holiday so didn't see the league game on Saturday but took the word from here that Crouch's header cost us the Southampton goal. I've just watched it from MOTD coverage and it was Wilson's header so we can add another error to have cost us a goal. How many is that he's culpable for now? It must be 80% of the goals we've conceded and that isn't even mentioning one/possibly two more from Wednesday night. Muniesa in at centre half on Saturday for me. We've noticed tis trend too, many of the goals conceded this season can be at best partly and in many cases fully attributed to a Wilson error. The point earlier about Southampton's first goal the other night being a wonderful goal is true, but Marc still turned his back rather than trying to block the shot as a defender should. Defenders shouldn't be turning their backs, and on many an occasion he has been out of position, lost his man or flat footed. Often a case of two or even all three. The problem is with Huth out again and seemingly not in the manager's favour we have few options. Some would say that blaming Wilson for their first goal on Wednesday is harsh in the extreme but the minute you turn your back, you become "at fault" in my opinion. It is something I have criticised Cahill for and regularly criticised Danny Collins for so it would be remiss not to point the same accusing fingers at our own players. Wilson should have thrown himself in the way or made himself as big as possible and taken one in the ribs if necessary, something Ryan has done numerous times before. It doesn't matter who the player is, if they are consistently costing your team goals, then you leave them out, even if only for a game or two so that they can recover their focus and confidence. Wilson needs to be taken out of the firing line for a few games.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 13:07:12 GMT
Wilson will have to play because at the moment we have not got an outstanding replacement, Muni has done well, Geoff could do a job but he will have to play right back against West Ham, Jonny Tex will need time to develop. For me we need a new CB in January as a priority. As you say, Muniesa has done well. On that basis Muniesa should play. I agree that a new centre half is an absolute priority in the January window, as it should have been in the Summer window, if concerns about Huth's availability were around at that time. There is simply too much pressure on Shawcross and Begovic to carry our back 4 at the moment and given that we are trying to be more offensive in our approach to the games, that back 4 has to be rock solid.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 13:08:36 GMT
Would any of you realistically drop him tomorrow? Coming up against an in-form West Ham. It could have disaster written all over it. If Huth was genuinely fit, I'd play him, but clearly Hughes just isn't seeing it and I trust his judgement on that. Absolutely I would. Against an in-form West Ham, leaving Wilson to deal with one of their red hot forwards is more of a recipe for disaster than drafting in an alternative. I thought Huth was injured again anyway so unavailable for selection regardless.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 13:10:03 GMT
Can't blame him for the first or last goal, but I noticed right away the second was a big mistake on his part. Shawcross had the fella crossing the ball in (not sure who it was) which was the obvious intent on the man with the ball, so why Marc left his man and went to close him down also is beyond me. Very eager to attack the ball unfortunately. Whether that's something they train to do however I'm not sure because I often see Marc closing down and Shawcross dropping deep when he does. He hasn't got a defensive brain. It's been there to see for the past 12 months. In his defence he's not really a Centre Half though. He might me more of one than, say, N'Zonzi, but if N'Zonzi had to play emergency CH for a few weeks he'd be getting torn a new one too. It's a failure of the Management team to we have played a significant amount of games over the last two seasons with a makeshift CH. I don't dislike Wilson, but he's no CH; he's not really shown that he can play Centre Mid either, though at Left Back he did a half-decent job. He doesn't seem alert enough, makes bad decisions aplenty, and is getting exposed on too regular a basis now. Compare how many goals we've conceded this season, where you look at them and say 'that's poor by Wilson', and then see how many Ryan has been culpable for in comparison.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 13:10:23 GMT
The ROI has fuck all to do with Stoke City. All that matters is that Wilson is making too many mistakes whilst wearing a Stoke City shirt and as such needs to be dropped. I am sure Hughes will follow your sage advice Just because Hughes is football manager and one that I happen to think is a very good one, doesn't mean he is incapable of making a mistake. The continued selection of Wilson is a mistake, without a shadow of a doubt. Even if the alternative proves not to be so great, Wilson needs to be taken out of the firing line for a game or two (preferably 30).
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