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Post by onionman on Oct 25, 2014 19:37:29 GMT
We get this every year don't we, some similar sized club who are better than us at that moment. Most have gone by the wayside while we've plodded on. Southampton do however look the real deal. Why can't we be like them? Well i suppose we could, but it's really really really really difficult. That's why there is only one team currently like them. Very true, Para. Wolves, Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest etc are probably lamenting why they can't be like us. I've just had a quick look through the league tables, and I reckon there's 37 clubs you'd loosely say are a similar size to us. Four of those are above us, and 33 below us.
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Post by generationex on Oct 25, 2014 19:40:55 GMT
In the last 2 years Southampton have bought 8 players that cost more than our all time record signing. Hmmm ... What could possibly explain their recent success... Is developing talent that they're able to sell for a hefty profit a factor do you think? True, but we had four seasons of 50 million pound incomes that they didnt have. And they chose to reinvest the profits when they could have cut n run.
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Post by pessimisskick on Oct 25, 2014 19:41:34 GMT
Because you didn't go in to administration and get your debt cleared, whilst putting your local small suppliers out of business, and being fortunate enough to drop down a couple of divisions and being able to start again, whilst also fortuitously discovering a Welsh chimpanzee called Gareth from Swindon that was very good at football and be able to sell him for a nice fat profit, and in the meantime also finding a couple of English lads that the money-spunking muppets from Merseyside took a bit of a shine to.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2014 19:43:58 GMT
Is developing talent that they're able to sell for a hefty profit a factor do you think? True, but we had four seasons of 50 million pound incomes that they didnt have. And they chose to reinvest the profits when they could have cut n run. Yeah, we had a head start yet they look a fair bit better than us. There's other factors but the conveyor belt of talent they produce is a pretty massive one that can't be ignored. We're light years behind in that respect.
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Post by pessimisskick on Oct 25, 2014 19:51:44 GMT
Just wanted say, unlucky today, I honestly want to pull every detail apart the west ham mentioned earlier apart as it's about as far from the truth on each point as you can get. Simple google search on bales sold price will show you how much he knows. The academy has been successful for a long long time this is not an overnight success. Spend one minute looking at players that you may not even be aware have come through it. Any how good luck and thank you to a couple of real nice stoke fans that gave my son the match program earlier.
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essexhammer
Academy Starlet
Stick your Olympic Stadium up your arse
Posts: 137
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Post by essexhammer on Oct 25, 2014 20:05:34 GMT
Just wanted say, unlucky today, I honestly want to pull every detail apart the west ham mentioned earlier apart as it's about as far from the truth on each point as you can get. Simple google search on bales sold price will show you how much he knows. The academy has been successful for a long long time this is not an overnight success. Spend one minute looking at players that you may not even be aware have come through it. Any how good luck and thank you to a couple of real nice stoke fans that gave my son the match program earlier. 1) You went in to administration and cleared your debt. 2) A few local suppliers went to the wall as a result. 3) You sold Bale for a total of £7 million and you didn't pay for him. I'd say that's a fat profit. 4) Liverpool have just paid you the best part of £30 million for Llana and Lambert. So go on then, where are the untruths?
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Post by tazi on Oct 25, 2014 20:05:41 GMT
In the close season as Southampton were selling their best players left right and centre coupled with their manager leaving there was a fair few who were predicting their demise. Now, at that time I don't recall reading that they'll be ok because they've invested in youth 'sorry if I missed it' and yet now that's what I read.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 25, 2014 20:21:33 GMT
In the close season as Southampton were selling their best players left right and centre coupled with their manager leaving there was a fair few who were predicting their demise. Now, at that time I don't recall reading that they'll be ok because they've invested in youth 'sorry if I missed it' and yet now that's what I read. To be fair, though, as has been said, they've replaced the departed with top dollar gambles who've pretty much all clicked and become difference-makers - and added to the remainder of the squad from last year who are a solid bunch. 6 of the players in their squad today cost Crouch-type fees. Pelle 9m Tadic 11m Wanyama 12.5m Forster 10m Mane 12m Long 11m
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2014 20:22:48 GMT
In the close season as Southampton were selling their best players left right and centre coupled with their manager leaving there was a fair few who were predicting their demise. Now, at that time I don't recall reading that they'll be ok because they've invested in youth 'sorry if I missed it' and yet now that's what I read. They raised a considerable part of the money to sign the quality they've signed through cashing in on some of that youth Taz. Over £50m worth in fact. Plus they got a further £21m for two players they paid £9m and £2m for respectively.
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Post by philm87 on Oct 25, 2014 20:25:26 GMT
In the close season as Southampton were selling their best players left right and centre coupled with their manager leaving there was a fair few who were predicting their demise. Now, at that time I don't recall reading that they'll be ok because they've invested in youth 'sorry if I missed it' and yet now that's what I read. Well the trick is, when all these people start making these wise predictions, ask yourself if they really know what they are talking about. If everyone on this forum is predicting something will happen, it's usually a good idea to bet on the opposite happening.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Oct 25, 2014 20:28:29 GMT
I think if the club wanted to spend the money then we would have certainly had players like Tadic and Pelle on our radar however we've bought cheaper and thats come with it own problems. For me at the moment the difference between Tadic and Pelle and our crop of players is consistency. We've seen what Arnie et al can offer and Diouf has had a decent scoring record in one of the top leagues in Europe. The biggest gripe for me is how worlds away we are from them in terms of turning out academy talent. Obviously its not something that can be fixed over night and we've started to address it but this should have happened years ago and for me its inexcusable for a club like ours to have neglected it for so long. Yep - Hughes said in the paper this morning that Tadic was on our radar (and he's represented by Beswicks apparently) but we couldn't afford him Blimey,didn't know that.Disappointing considering we've spent nowt this summer.
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Post by fentonsaint on Oct 25, 2014 20:32:50 GMT
I am a saints fan that lives about a mile from the Britannia. I think you guys are being too harsh on Stoke. You were decent in the second half and caused a lot of problems. Had you played that way for 90mins instead of 45 you probably would have won.
I also thought the ref was not consistent and Stoke could perhaps have been given a few more of the decisions, some stupid reckless challenges aside. But I have never seen a player booked for having his shoelaces untied before. And booking a centre back affects his game.
I think stoke have a wonderful defence and the best keeper in the league. I have always loved crouchie. You lost it in midfield today really and need a shneiderlin-type player to pull the strings. He is so so important to our success and how we play.
That said, I have lived in Stoke for over ten years and the leaps and bounds that your club have improved in that time is remarkable. Yet only read this thread you would think you have been declining in that time. Let's face it, there are the big clubs then there are the rest of us. I am personally immensely proud of what saints have achieved so far this season but we have had a relatively easy run and plus we are filling a man Utd and Liverpool sized vacuum. I am certain we won't finish second, or third, or fourth, but I hope we can be the best of the rest. And I think Stoke are more of a footballing city than Southampton, though it pains me to say it. The sense of community I have experienced living in this city is unrivalled anywhere else I have been. Give your club support, but also give it credit for what you have achieved so far, and be patient.
See you in the away end on Wednesday, potters. I will be the one munching on an oatcake.
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Post by stu1959 on Oct 25, 2014 20:33:33 GMT
Because you didn't go in to administration and get your debt cleared, whilst putting your local small suppliers out of business, and being fortunate enough to drop down a couple of divisions and being able to start again, whilst also fortuitously discovering a Welsh chimpanzee called Gareth from Swindon that was very good at football and be able to sell him for a nice fat profit, and in the meantime also finding a couple of English lads that the money-spunking muppets from Merseyside took a bit of a shine to. If memory serves me right I thought it was the parent property company that actually went into Administration that their Chairman Rupert Lowe had placed above the Football Club and because of its links to the stadium the Football Club was liable for a ten point deduction. Also unlink their neighbours Portsmouth all the Southampton debt was paid off in full. One if not the major reason that Southampton sit where they are is the Liebherr family and there investment in the club from its League Two days to now. The plan has been in place to always purchase players to play at the next level, In league two buy championship players invest wisely in the future and that's what they have been doing. Re your Gareth Bale point - Bale was sold for only 7 million, compared to the figure that he went from Spurs to Real , Also Southampton at the times of the parent companies problems had to agree to where transfer deals that had already been made but not all payments had been paid to agree to smaller payments to clear them early so Saints could get the cash in. Also how is being fortunate to drop down a couple of leagues - those leagues are hard to get out of - Southampton had a ten point deduction applied to them in league One But because they would have gone down without the ten point deduction it was carried over to the next season in league two ! Makes their rise even more remarkable. Essex Hammer it's not because they beat you 3-1 at your place is it ?
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Post by generationex on Oct 25, 2014 20:35:14 GMT
Chief, they sold the family silver. What saved them from relegation is they invested it, and appeared to have done so wisely.
Youth players are the Holy Grail - it's free money - every club wants them but few produce real talent consistently. Man Utd have learned that and Southampton are unlikely to do it again.
Chairmen and fans love the idea of a youth player conveyor belt because it squares the circle - you get exceptional players without paying the exceptional fees.
It's a nice idea but there's a whole lot of luck. The youth development industry will insist its about 'process' and 'commitment' but the reality doesn't bear that out.
If it were true why doesn't one club turn out talent generation after generation?
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Post by pessimisskick on Oct 25, 2014 20:36:05 GMT
Just wanted say, unlucky today, I honestly want to pull every detail apart the west ham mentioned earlier apart as it's about as far from the truth on each point as you can get. Simple google search on bales sold price will show you how much he knows. The academy has been successful for a long long time this is not an overnight success. Spend one minute looking at players that you may not even be aware have come through it. Any how good luck and thank you to a couple of real nice stoke fans that gave my son the match program earlier. 1) You went in to administration and cleared your debt. 2) A few local suppliers went to the wall as a result. 3) You sold Bale for a total of £7 million and you didn't pay for him. I'd say that's a fat profit. 4) Liverpool have just paid you the best part of £30 million for Llana and Lambert. So go on then, where are the untruths? You mentioned we stole bale from Swindon? Yes Bale sold 7 mil but waived future sales rights current value?? Which business's went under??? The money we owed was to Barclays and aviva, as a result of Barclays withdrawing our banking facility???? The new owners settled all debts including with aviva????? And as for Liverpool yes prize plumbs..
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Post by philm87 on Oct 25, 2014 20:45:32 GMT
I am a saints fan that lives about a mile from the Britannia. I think you guys are being too harsh on Stoke. You were decent in the second half and caused a lot of problems. Had you played that way for 90mins instead of 45 you probably would have won. I also thought the ref was not consistent and Stoke could perhaps have been given a few more of the decisions, some stupid reckless challenges aside. But I have never seen a player booked for having his shoelaces untied before. And booking a centre back affects his game. I think stoke have a wonderful defence and the best keeper in the league. I have always loved crouchie. You lost it in midfield today really and need a shneiderlin-type player to pull the strings. He is so so important to our success and how we play. That said, I have lived in Stoke for over ten years and the leaps and bounds that your club have improved in that time is remarkable. Yet only read this thread you would think you have been declining in that time. Let's face it, there are the big clubs then there are the rest of us. I am personally immensely proud of what saints have achieved so far this season but we have had a relatively easy run and plus we are filling a man Utd and Liverpool sized vacuum. I am certain we won't finish second, or third, or fourth, but I hope we can be the best of the rest. And I think Stoke are more of a footballing city than Southampton, though it pains me to say it. The sense of community I have experienced living in this city is unrivalled anywhere else I have been. Give your club support, but also give it credit for what you have achieved so far, and be patient. See you in the away end on Wednesday, potters. I will be the one munching on an oatcake. Best first post ever.
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 25, 2014 20:46:51 GMT
They have better players?
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Post by ChrisKamarasPerm on Oct 25, 2014 20:51:36 GMT
Football goes in peaks and troughs . Ask the Southampton fans how they felt 5 years ago.
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essexhammer
Academy Starlet
Stick your Olympic Stadium up your arse
Posts: 137
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Post by essexhammer on Oct 25, 2014 21:06:28 GMT
Essex Hammer it's not because they beat you 3-1 at your place is it ? Nah, not at all. They played great and we played crap. I'm not a sore loser. Why would I be? We've beaten you 9 times out of the last 14, you have beat us 3 times...
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essexhammer
Academy Starlet
Stick your Olympic Stadium up your arse
Posts: 137
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Post by essexhammer on Oct 25, 2014 21:15:47 GMT
You mentioned we stole bale from Swindon? Yes Bale sold 7 mil but waived future sales rights current value?? Which business's went under??? The money we owed was to Barclays and aviva, as a result of Barclays withdrawing our banking facility???? The new owners settled all debts including with aviva????? And as for Liverpool yes prize plumbs.. I never said you stole him from Swindon Town the football club. He was living in Swindon at the time playing for a tiny little non-league outfit whose name escapes me. As you say, you had your banking facility withdrawn. Without that, you can't pay your bills, including those to the small suppliers right at the bottom of the food chain, who are not multi-national corps that could afford to wait. Barclays and Aviva were the main creditors. Not the only creditors. Top of the food chain. Two clubs in recent years have gone from lower league to PL as a result of dropping down the leagues due to administration and starting afresh - a new club in all but name if you like. You and Swansea.
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Post by philm87 on Oct 25, 2014 21:25:40 GMT
Essex Hammer it's not because they beat you 3-1 at your place is it ? Nah, not at all. They played great and we played crap. I'm not a sore loser. Why would I be? We've beaten you 9 times out of the last 14, you have beat us 3 times... We beat you twice last season. I recall Ricardo Fuller leaving your entire defence on its arse a couple of year back. That's 3 times we have beaten you. FA Cup quarter-final...? I also recall a James Beattie brace when Fuller left Upson for dead on another occasion. That is 5 just off the top of my head.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2014 21:30:13 GMT
Chief, they sold the family silver. What saved them from relegation is they invested it, and appeared to have done so wisely. Youth players are the Holy Grail - it's free money - every club wants them but few produce real talent consistently. Man Utd have learned that and Southampton are unlikely to do it again. Chairmen and fans love the idea of a youth player conveyor belt because it squares the circle - you get exceptional players without paying the exceptional fees. It's a nice idea but there's a whole lot of luck. The youth development industry will insist its about 'process' and 'commitment' but the reality doesn't bear that out. If it were true why doesn't one club turn out talent generation after generation? I don't get your point mate. It happens now and again so why bother? They've been doing it for years. Walcott. Bale. The Ox. Lallana. Shaw. Chambers. How much did that lot raise? Their gambles in the summer paid off and it could have gone tits but it didn't, but let's not pretend the youth thing isn't admirable or a big reason for their success.
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Post by tazi on Oct 25, 2014 21:34:19 GMT
With Tony Pulis not in charge any longer and Peter Coates not exactly splashing the cash last season 'no doubt banked a wedge or two' and not exactly splashing the cash in the close season just gone 'no doubt will be banking a wedge or two' at the end of this season I'll be hoping Peter will splash the cash.
Before the start of the season it was my thinking that the Coates family will try do the things on the cheap by spending the odd million here and the odd million there whilst banking millions upon millions and if we stay in the premier league for another season after this then that'll be even more money. Lack of expenditure will catch up with us in the end and I can see Hughes walking.
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Post by RAF on Oct 25, 2014 21:39:53 GMT
Afterall they sold their best players, brought in a new manager and were tipped by many to find themselves down there. In comes Koeman and he's doing a great job whereas we look so pedestrian to the point where I can't believe it with the pace we've got. Find it amazing that we look so shite. A bit like you predicting we would find ourselves 'Down There' under our new manager who funnily enough got us to the best finish ever in the Prem. The same season you said Arnie was fucking wank and needed fucking off. We all know how that turned out. I'd stick to licking windows sunshine, it suits you. H
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Post by tazi on Oct 25, 2014 21:40:24 GMT
In the close season as Southampton were selling their best players left right and centre coupled with their manager leaving there was a fair few who were predicting their demise. Now, at that time I don't recall reading that they'll be ok because they've invested in youth 'sorry if I missed it' and yet now that's what I read. Well the trick is, when all these people start making these wise predictions, ask yourself if they really know what they are talking about. If everyone on this forum is predicting something will happen, it's usually a good idea to bet on the opposite happening. I for one certainly didn't predict that they'd be in trouble, Infact it's bloody hard as it's such a competitive league as anyone can beat anyone. I'm more fed up that we look to god damned pedestrian and that's when we've supposedly got good players with pace to burn. Maybe the likes of Arnie, Diouf and Assaidi aren't as good as I'd hoped they'd be.
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Post by RAF on Oct 25, 2014 21:41:43 GMT
Well the trick is, when all these people start making these wise predictions, ask yourself if they really know what they are talking about. If everyone on this forum is predicting something will happen, it's usually a good idea to bet on the opposite happening. I for one certainly didn't predict that they'd be in trouble, Infact it's bloody hard as it's such a competitive league as anyone can beat anyone. I'm more fed up that we look to god damned pedestrian and that's when we've supposedly got good players with pace to burn. Maybe the likes of Arnie, Diouf and Assaidi aren't as good as I'd hoped they'd be. You never hoped Arnie would be good, you called him fucking wank from day 1. H
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 21:42:28 GMT
I can't help but agree with Tazi's post. I think we are lacking that bit of quality in attacking areas that West ham, Southampton and a couple of other teams we should be competing with have now got. We've spent a few windows trying to do things on the cheap and because Odemwingie has got injured it looks like it is catching up with us a bit. I don't think Diouf, Bojan, Arnie have the quality to replace Odemwingie. I'm very happy with Moses but he is not a goalscorer and he is not our player.
I haven't seen much fluidity from us, we are not the side we were in the second half of last season. We've failed to build on what was going on because we don't want to spend. I think we will be just about good enough to stay out of the bottom 4 or 5 but next summer will be one where we need to spend some money on a couple of midfielders and a striker
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Post by tazi on Oct 25, 2014 21:42:39 GMT
Afterall they sold their best players, brought in a new manager and were tipped by many to find themselves down there. In comes Koeman and he's doing a great job whereas we look so pedestrian to the point where I can't believe it with the pace we've got. Find it amazing that we look so shite. A bit like you predicting we would find ourselves 'Down There' under our new manager who funnily enough got us to the best finish ever in the Prem. The same season you said Arnie was fucking wank and needed fucking off. We all know how that turned out. I'd stick to licking windows sunshine, it suits you. H Such a shame arnie hasn't continued to make me eat those words. Last season has gone and now this season I think it's shocking. No fluency, no movement no nothing.
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Post by tazi on Oct 25, 2014 21:44:08 GMT
I for one certainly didn't predict that they'd be in trouble, Infact it's bloody hard as it's such a competitive league as anyone can beat anyone. I'm more fed up that we look to god damned pedestrian and that's when we've supposedly got good players with pace to burn. Maybe the likes of Arnie, Diouf and Assaidi aren't as good as I'd hoped they'd be. You never hoped Arnie would be good, you called him fucking wank from day 1. H I never hoped arnie would be any good, yeah right, sane as I've never wanted any stoke player to be good. What a tit you are coming out with that.
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Post by RAF on Oct 25, 2014 21:44:49 GMT
A bit like you predicting we would find ourselves 'Down There' under our new manager who funnily enough got us to the best finish ever in the Prem. The same season you said Arnie was fucking wank and needed fucking off. We all know how that turned out. I'd stick to licking windows sunshine, it suits you. H Such a shame arnie hasn't continued to make me eat those words. Last season has gone and now this season I think it's shocking. No fluency, no movement no nothing. You never ate your words, you just talked shit about a post no one could find. H
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