|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 18:53:58 GMT
Post by bolders on Oct 26, 2014 18:53:58 GMT
Just read the paper section on Sky and it says that Bojan had a changing room bust up and wants to leave anyone heard anything about this?
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 19:03:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 19:03:46 GMT
A change? We look so predictable. Crouch has been ok. I just think we need to try something new. Crouch has been better than ok and the other options haven't looked a patch on him. We've got plenty of problems - he isn't one of them. Scoring goals is a massive problem and he is a centre forward. Surely there is a link? He's been playing well but somebody in the team has to take responsibility for scoring goals. We're absolving the player in the Whelan role of any responsibility. You've said the same for NZonzi too. If Crouch isn't scoring either, we start running out of options.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 19:04:37 GMT
Post by mywaydesolzan on Oct 26, 2014 19:04:37 GMT
Just read the paper section on Sky and it says that Bojan had a changing room bust up and wants to leave anyone heard anything about this? Heard he was unimpressed with the subs against Swansea when he knew he wouldn't get on. For me it offers hope that at least he still has the desire to play football. It is up to Hughes to get him some game time.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 19:06:14 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 26, 2014 19:06:14 GMT
Crouch has been better than ok and the other options haven't looked a patch on him. We've got plenty of problems - he isn't one of them. Scoring goals is a massive problem and he is a centre forward. Surely there is a link? He's been playing well but somebody in the team has to take responsibility for scoring goals. We're absolving the player in the Whelan role of any responsibility. You've said the same for NZonzi too. If Crouch isn't scoring either, we start running out of options. All 3 forwards should be scoring, Moses Crouch and Diouf or who ever it happens to be, not enough coming from the wide men, with a helping hand coming from Adam or Ireland from the attacking midfield role.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 19:09:47 GMT
Crouch has been better than ok and the other options haven't looked a patch on him. We've got plenty of problems - he isn't one of them. Scoring goals is a massive problem and he is a centre forward. Surely there is a link? He's been playing well but somebody in the team has to take responsibility for scoring goals. We're absolving the player in the Whelan role of any responsibility. You've said the same for NZonzi too. If Crouch isn't scoring either, we start running out of options. It isn't that black and white. It's not like he's missing sitters or not doing his job, is it? We're not creating the chances at the moment, that's a big issue. We've looked much worse without Crouch than with him because when he doesn't play the ball doesn't stick up front.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 19:15:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 26, 2014 19:15:21 GMT
Scoring goals is a massive problem and he is a centre forward. Surely there is a link? He's been playing well but somebody in the team has to take responsibility for scoring goals. We're absolving the player in the Whelan role of any responsibility. You've said the same for NZonzi too. If Crouch isn't scoring either, we start running out of options. It isn't that black and white. It's not like he's missing sitters or not doing his job, is it? We're not creating the chances at the moment, that's a big issue. We've looked much worse without Crouch than with him because when he doesn't play the ball doesn't stick up front. Is the mobility factor part of a wider issue though? In Nzonzi and Crouch you have 2 players who will inevitably slow attacks down at every opportunity. I wasn't there yesterday but reading on here that seems to be a big issue at the moment. To play through the middle you HAVE to move the ball quickly and have movement. We don't do either.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 19:16:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 19:16:14 GMT
Scoring goals is a massive problem and he is a centre forward. Surely there is a link? He's been playing well but somebody in the team has to take responsibility for scoring goals. We're absolving the player in the Whelan role of any responsibility. You've said the same for NZonzi too. If Crouch isn't scoring either, we start running out of options. It isn't that black and white. It's not like he's missing sitters or not doing his job, is it? We're not creating the chances at the moment, that's a big issue. We've looked much worse without Crouch than with him because when he doesn't play the ball doesn't stick up front. I agree mate. It's almost a catch 22 for me though as he will never score enough.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:03:18 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 20:03:18 GMT
It isn't that black and white. It's not like he's missing sitters or not doing his job, is it? We're not creating the chances at the moment, that's a big issue. We've looked much worse without Crouch than with him because when he doesn't play the ball doesn't stick up front. Is the mobility factor part of a wider issue though? In Nzonzi and Crouch you have 2 players who will inevitably slow attacks down at every opportunity. I wasn't there yesterday but reading on here that seems to be a big issue at the moment. To play through the middle you HAVE to move the ball quickly and have movement. We don't do either. Who are you going to play there though Nick?
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:05:03 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 20:05:03 GMT
It isn't that black and white. It's not like he's missing sitters or not doing his job, is it? We're not creating the chances at the moment, that's a big issue. We've looked much worse without Crouch than with him because when he doesn't play the ball doesn't stick up front. I agree mate. It's almost a catch 22 for me though as he will never score enough. Ideally WD we'd have a Benteke/Lukaku/Bony type leading the line, someone quick, physical, good in the air. I think we thought Diouf was that man and he still might be, but the early signs are that he needs a target man to feed off. Maybe it's time to ditch the lone striker thing? Maybe the players we have support 4-4-2 better?
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:20:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 20:20:33 GMT
I agree mate. It's almost a catch 22 for me though as he will never score enough. Ideally WD we'd have a Benteke/Lukaku/Bony type leading the line, someone quick, physical, good in the air. I think we thought Diouf was that man and he still might be, but the early signs are that he needs a target man to feed off. Maybe it's time to ditch the lone striker thing? Maybe the players we have support 4-4-2 better? Maybe mate. Moses, Arnie and Assaidi are suited to out and out wing roles. Somebody like Diouf or Odemwingie playing with Crouch up top would definitely work too. The problem would be the midfield two. You've got Glenn, N'Zonzi, Cameron, Adam, Ireland and Sidwell. You'd probably have to sacrifice Adam and Ireland and I haven't a clue where Bojan would fit in.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:20:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 26, 2014 20:20:42 GMT
Is the mobility factor part of a wider issue though? In Nzonzi and Crouch you have 2 players who will inevitably slow attacks down at every opportunity. I wasn't there yesterday but reading on here that seems to be a big issue at the moment. To play through the middle you HAVE to move the ball quickly and have movement. We don't do either. Who are you going to play there though Nick? Surely Bojan is worth gambling on leading the line in midweek isn't he? If it's a disaster we can always revert back. I'd also like to think Diouf can do that job given time. Problem is we have no identity at the moment and no balance in forward areas summed up by the return of Walters. As you may know I was at el clasico last night and the thing that stood out more than anything was the speed of passing and movement in forward positions. Don't get me wrong we aren't ever going to have that quality of player but Bojan is surely the closest we've got given his history. There is no direction or purpose in our style. At the moment it's merely a half arsed attempt at passing the ball more while more often than not going backwards to the irresistible temptation of hoofing to Crouch (and why wouldn't you if he's playing). Until Crouch is dropped then I'd imagine elements of our play are always going to be restricted and the same goes for Nzonzi (who you can probably get away with if you have a mobile forward).Crouch wasn't even meant to start games regularly this season imo hence the Villa team selection and signings. We've reverted back to type to an extent which might grind out results against the likes of Swansea and Newcastle but I know another man who can do that. I'd like to think we can do things with a bit more fluency in our play. We need to try something different against Southampton in midweek and that means changing personnel.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:21:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 26, 2014 20:21:37 GMT
Holy fuck sorry Rob on train bored hence the absurdly long response
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:26:36 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 20:26:36 GMT
I see no problem giving Bojan or Diouf a run there in midweek, but in the league there's absolutely no case for dropping Crouch at all. Nobody else thus far has remotely suggested they can play that role as well as him and though this narrative seems to have come from nowhere that he's holding us back in some way, the reality is that his return to the team was much needed and we look better with him than without him.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:27:18 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2014 20:27:18 GMT
Ideally WD we'd have a Benteke/Lukaku/Bony type leading the line, someone quick, physical, good in the air. I think we thought Diouf was that man and he still might be, but the early signs are that he needs a target man to feed off. Maybe it's time to ditch the lone striker thing? Maybe the players we have support 4-4-2 better? Maybe mate. Moses, Arnie and Assaidi are suited to out and out wing roles. Somebody like Diouf or Odemwingie playing with Crouch up top would definitely work too. The problem would be the midfield two. You've got Glenn, N'Zonzi, Cameron, Adam, Ireland and Sidwell. You'd probably have to sacrifice Adam and Ireland and I haven't a clue where Bojan would fit in. That was always going to be the issue with Bojan though. It's why it was always a weird signing.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:32:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 26, 2014 20:32:22 GMT
I see no problem giving Bojan or Diouf a run there in midweek, but in the league there's absolutely no case for dropping Crouch at all. Nobody else thus far has remotely suggested they can play that role as well as him and though this narrative seems to have come from nowhere that he's holding us back in some way, the reality is that his return to the team was much needed and we look better with him than without him. Only because it meant we could do more of what we've been familiar with for 6 years. It was always going to be extremely challenging to transform our style but playing the old guard isn't really what I was hoping for this season. Surely our team next Saturday is determined by performances in midweek? Why predetermine team selections. If Bojan plays in midweek and has a stormer I'd like to think he'd start the next game. Hughes is generally pretty consistent with that as seen with Muni and even Walters.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:37:07 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 20:37:07 GMT
I see no problem giving Bojan or Diouf a run there in midweek, but in the league there's absolutely no case for dropping Crouch at all. Nobody else thus far has remotely suggested they can play that role as well as him and though this narrative seems to have come from nowhere that he's holding us back in some way, the reality is that his return to the team was much needed and we look better with him than without him. Only because it meant we could do more of what we've been familiar with for 6 years. It was always going to be extremely challenging to transform our style but playing the old guard isn't really what I was hoping for this season. Surely our team next Saturday is determined by performances in midweek? Why predetermine team selections. If Bojan plays in midweek and has a stormer I'd like to think he'd start the next game. Hughes is generally pretty consistent with that as seen with Muni and even Walters. I don't have a problem with mixing up the short and long. I think that's eminently sensible and Crouch has been as important with the ball at his feet as when it's in the air owing to his link play, which is crucial for a lone striker. Before he came back into the side we had nothing going forward. If Bojan plays and has a stormer he should absolutely get his chance.
|
|
|
Post by Beloved Monkfish on Oct 26, 2014 20:48:39 GMT
I see no problem giving Bojan or Diouf a run there in midweek, but in the league there's absolutely no case for dropping Crouch at all. Nobody else thus far has remotely suggested they can play that role as well as him and though this narrative seems to have come from nowhere that he's holding us back in some way, the reality is that his return to the team was much needed and we look better with him than without him. If we want to continue lumping the ball forward at every opportunity then absolutely, Crouch is vital. However, at the back end of last season we showed that we were a far more effective side without him and having a lot more pace up front with shorter quicker passing. For us to start out playing teams again, we need to move the ball quicker and with Crouch up front on his own I'm afraid we're not going to do that. I had hoped we'd moved past this lump it up to Crouchy routine but it appears not. When he plays, the temptation is there for all to see. It's a tough one because he has played so well. The style of football has suited him but not the team in my opinion. It's a bit like trapping your arm in something and having to chop it off to survive. Yes your arm has been great and it's been really useful but you'd be better off surviving. And you'd cope without it. (Ok, maybe not the best analogy but you get my drift!)
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:54:29 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 20:54:29 GMT
I see no problem giving Bojan or Diouf a run there in midweek, but in the league there's absolutely no case for dropping Crouch at all. Nobody else thus far has remotely suggested they can play that role as well as him and though this narrative seems to have come from nowhere that he's holding us back in some way, the reality is that his return to the team was much needed and we look better with him than without him. If we want to continue lumping the ball forward at every opportunity then absolutely, Crouch is vital. However, at the back end of last season we showed that we were a far more effective side without him and having a lot more pace up front with shorter quicker passing. For us to start out playing teams again, we need to move the ball quicker and with Crouch up front on his own I'm afraid we're not going to do that. I had hoped we'd moved past this lump it up to Crouchy routine but it appears not. When he plays, the temptation is there for all to see. It's a tough one because he has played so well. The style of football has suited him but not the team in my opinion. It's a bit like trapping your arm in something and having to chop it off to survive. Yes your arm has been great and it's been really useful but you'd be better off surviving. And you'd cope without it. (Ok, maybe not the best analogy but you get my drift!) I don't really agree. It's not like we exclusively knock it long like we used to, and Crouch can move the ball quickly - some of his one-touch stuff is excellent and he's an intelligent player. Knocking it long isn't a sin. Sometimes it's the right option. It's ok to do both. We looked great with Odem, Arnie and Assaidi in 2-3 games at the end of the season but we looked poor without him this season as your lone striker has to be able to hold the ball up and nobody else looks able to do that. We still need an alternative target man with a bit of pace.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 20:59:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by Beloved Monkfish on Oct 26, 2014 20:59:18 GMT
If we want to continue lumping the ball forward at every opportunity then absolutely, Crouch is vital. However, at the back end of last season we showed that we were a far more effective side without him and having a lot more pace up front with shorter quicker passing. For us to start out playing teams again, we need to move the ball quicker and with Crouch up front on his own I'm afraid we're not going to do that. I had hoped we'd moved past this lump it up to Crouchy routine but it appears not. When he plays, the temptation is there for all to see. It's a tough one because he has played so well. The style of football has suited him but not the team in my opinion. It's a bit like trapping your arm in something and having to chop it off to survive. Yes your arm has been great and it's been really useful but you'd be better off surviving. And you'd cope without it. (Ok, maybe not the best analogy but you get my drift!) I don't really agree. It's not like we exclusively knock it long like we used to, and Crouch can move the ball quickly - some of his one-touch stuff is excellent and he's an intelligent player. Knocking it long isn't a sin. Sometimes it's the right option. It's ok to do both. We looked great with Odem, Arnie and Assaidi in 2-3 games at the end of the season but we looked poor without him this season as your lone striker has to be able to hold the ball up and nobody else looks able to do that. We still need an alternative target man with a bit of pace. I agree there's nothing wrong with both. Problem is, we're only doing the long ball stuff well at the moment. I just think without Crouch we might actually try and play some quicker stuff on the ground. I'm not saying Crouch is the only problem. Just quite possibly one of many despite his decent performances.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 21:23:32 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 21:23:32 GMT
I don't really agree. It's not like we exclusively knock it long like we used to, and Crouch can move the ball quickly - some of his one-touch stuff is excellent and he's an intelligent player. Knocking it long isn't a sin. Sometimes it's the right option. It's ok to do both. We looked great with Odem, Arnie and Assaidi in 2-3 games at the end of the season but we looked poor without him this season as your lone striker has to be able to hold the ball up and nobody else looks able to do that. We still need an alternative target man with a bit of pace. I agree there's nothing wrong with both. Problem is, we're only doing the long ball stuff well at the moment. I just think without Crouch we might actually try and play some quicker stuff on the ground. I'm not saying Crouch is the only problem. Just quite possibly one of many despite his decent performances. Who do you play instead of him though?
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 21:36:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by pottersrule on Oct 26, 2014 21:36:08 GMT
It isn't that black and white. It's not like he's missing sitters or not doing his job, is it? We're not creating the chances at the moment, that's a big issue. We've looked much worse without Crouch than with him because when he doesn't play the ball doesn't stick up front. Is the mobility factor part of a wider issue though? In Nzonzi and Crouch you have 2 players who will inevitably slow attacks down at every opportunity. I wasn't there yesterday but reading on here that seems to be a big issue at the moment. To play through the middle you HAVE to move the ball quickly and have movement. We don't do either. Against qpr we were very mobile and quick on the break with crouch playing.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 21:50:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by jonselscfc71 on Oct 26, 2014 21:50:43 GMT
Ideally WD we'd have a Benteke/Lukaku/Bony type leading the line, someone quick, physical, good in the air. I think we thought Diouf was that man and he still might be, but the early signs are that he needs a target man to feed off. Maybe it's time to ditch the lone striker thing? Maybe the players we have support 4-4-2 better? Maybe mate. Moses, Arnie and Assaidi are suited to out and out wing roles. Somebody like Diouf or Odemwingie playing with Crouch up top would definitely work too. The problem would be the midfield two. You've got Glenn, N'Zonzi, Cameron, Adam, Ireland and Sidwell. You'd probably have to sacrifice Adam and Ireland and I haven't a clue where Bojan would fit in. Of the midfielders there who would get forward to link the play with a front 2 AND get back to support the holding man? Playing 4-4-2 with 2 sitting doesn't work, and I don't think Hughes would risk Adam or Ireland to get back and get stuck in. The only true box to box midfield there on past evidence is Sidwell and he's as close to the starting XI as my cat! With the right personnel 4-4-2 can work but MH maybe knows we don't have those right now.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 21:53:05 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 21:53:05 GMT
Maybe mate. Moses, Arnie and Assaidi are suited to out and out wing roles. Somebody like Diouf or Odemwingie playing with Crouch up top would definitely work too. The problem would be the midfield two. You've got Glenn, N'Zonzi, Cameron, Adam, Ireland and Sidwell. You'd probably have to sacrifice Adam and Ireland and I haven't a clue where Bojan would fit in. Of the midfielders there who would get forward to link the play with a front 2 AND get back to support the holding man? Playing 4-4-2 with 2 sitting doesn't work, and I don't think Hughes would risk Adam or Ireland to get back and get stuck in. The only true box to box midfield there on past evidence is Sidwell and he's as close to the starting XI as my cat! With the right personnel 4-4-2 can work but MH maybe knows we don't have those right now. Seemed to work ok at Man City...
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:12:26 GMT
Post by huddy on Oct 26, 2014 22:12:26 GMT
Who are you going to play there though Nick? Surely Bojan is worth gambling on leading the line in midweek isn't he? If it's a disaster we can always revert back. I'd also like to think Diouf can do that job given time. Problem is we have no identity at the moment and no balance in forward areas summed up by the return of Walters. As you may know I was at el clasico last night and the thing that stood out more than anything was the speed of passing and movement in forward positions. Don't get me wrong we aren't ever going to have that quality of player but Bojan is surely the closest we've got given his history. There is no direction or purpose in our style. At the moment it's merely a half arsed attempt at passing the ball more while more often than not going backwards to the irresistible temptation of hoofing to Crouch (and why wouldn't you if he's playing). Until Crouch is dropped then I'd imagine elements of our play are always going to be restricted and the same goes for Nzonzi (who you can probably get away with if you have a mobile forward).Crouch wasn't even meant to start games regularly this season imo hence the Villa team selection and signings. We've reverted back to type to an extent which might grind out results against the likes of Swansea and Newcastle but I know another man who can do that. I'd like to think we can do things with a bit more fluency in our play. We need to try something different against Southampton in midweek and that means changing personnel. One game.Crouch doesn't score and they all come out of the woodwork.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:16:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by jonselscfc71 on Oct 26, 2014 22:16:03 GMT
Would it long term? What was the line up at Man City? Was it Nzonzi Whelan in the middle and Walters, Diouf, Odemwingie and Crouch as the wide men/forwards?
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:21:54 GMT
Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2014 22:21:54 GMT
Would it long term? What was the line up at Man City? Was it Nzonzi Whelan in the middle and Walters, Diouf, Odemwingie and Crouch as the wide men/forwards? I don't know if it would work long term but I don't think you'd necessarily need to use it long term. It could work for some games and 4-3-3 could work for some games. It was Nzonzi and Whelan I think, Nzonzi was out of his skin. Diouf was just behind Crouch and Moses was on one wing, Walters the other for one half then he went off for PO at half time.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:27:35 GMT
Post by Olgrligm on Oct 26, 2014 22:27:35 GMT
Team for Wednesday: ------------- Sorensen Bardsley Shawcross Huth Pieters ------- Nzonzi Muniesa -------- Arnie ----- Bojan ----- Assaidi ----------- Diouf ------------- I was thinking of something like that earlier. I was thinking of just having an experimental, all out pace forward line, with Moses instead of Assaidi. Still, I think Assaidi is reasonable, although Diouf is then the only properly fast player in there. I could get behind that team, though.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:31:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by wearepremierleague on Oct 26, 2014 22:31:19 GMT
Don't think Bojan could play up front on his own, I see him more as a David Silva type player. The problem this year so far is Hughes doesn't have a clue what his best team is. Last year when we were playing well, the team basically picked itself, this year we haven't played the same team two weeks in a row I don't think. He needs to play his most talented team and play them for a few weeks in a row, even if originally it does not work. Arnautovic is clearly bette than Walters, give him a run of games. Bojan is a more talented player than Ireland, get him in. How is he ever going to get used to the league without playing? To be fair to him, he's played what 4 times this season, against villa, where everyone was shit, against Hull where I thought he did well And little cameos against Leicester and Sunderland where again everyone was shit.
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:36:47 GMT
Post by sufolkstokie on Oct 26, 2014 22:36:47 GMT
Given our very poor goals tally, I think it is time to try something else
4-4-2, or 4 4 1 1 is probably worth a go because what we are doing right now is a blunt instrument
People keep banging on about Man City, and whilst it was wonderful, it is the exception at present
Crouch, Diouf, Bojan - don't really care which two, just try it
Just get rid of this concept of an attacking midfielder - we can not do it Ireland is crap at it and Adam hit and miss at best
Yet again on the weekend we had one bloke isolated whilst the rest just watched from afar
|
|
|
Bojan
Oct 26, 2014 22:52:08 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 26, 2014 22:52:08 GMT
Don't think Bojan could play up front on his own, I see him more as a David Silva type player. The problem this year so far is Hughes doesn't have a clue what his best team is. Last year when we were playing well, the team basically picked itself, this year we haven't played the same team two weeks in a row I don't think. He needs to play his most talented team and play them for a few weeks in a row, even if originally it does not work. Arnautovic is clearly bette than Walters, give him a run of games. Bojan is a more talented player than Ireland, get him in. How is he ever going to get used to the league without playing? To be fair to him, he's played what 4 times this season, against villa, where everyone was shit, against Hull where I thought he did well And little cameos against Leicester and Sunderland where again everyone was shit. Injuries have been a major factor in not being able to play the same team week after week, Bojan has, so far, showed nothing, why should he suddenly get in the team in front of someone we know can be a good player for us, same with Arnie, when they show a bit of form, probably from the bench, then they deserve to be playing, just because they MAY end up being a better player? Currently they aren't showing it, everyone else being shit isn't a good excuse, if others are playing shit surely its your chance to show that you're the better player.
|
|