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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 14:42:10 GMT
So you want the defensive midfielder to both sit and get up and down, do the donkey work and be creative, and score goals as well. Touchdown! Depends who the team is. Plenty of players have managed to do it. Of course the players that have done it have often played for teams that dominate for long periods. Yeah, those players tend to cost about £25m minimum and are actually given licence to do so, rather than being tasked with just sitting. Midfielders with a sitting brief tend not to get many goals, as has been discussed at length.
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Post by that's our Ric on Oct 17, 2014 14:47:55 GMT
Depends who the team is. Plenty of players have managed to do it. Of course the players that have done it have often played for teams that dominate for long periods. Yeah, those players tend to cost about £25m minimum and are actually given licence to do so, rather than being tasked with just sitting. Midfielders with a sitting brief tend not to get many goals, as has been discussed at length. Que Stokemanusa
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 15:00:18 GMT
Depends who the team is. Plenty of players have managed to do it. Of course the players that have done it have often played for teams that dominate for long periods. Yeah, those players tend to cost about £25m minimum and are actually given licence to do so, rather than being tasked with just sitting. Midfielders with a sitting brief tend not to get many goals, as has been discussed at length. What are you on about man, we clearly have one of those players in our squad and cost us next to nothing, his name, Super Geoff.
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Post by pez75 on Oct 17, 2014 15:03:01 GMT
This thread is getting a bit silly now, and I do wonder what some of you lot are watching at times...
Whelan does not play the true DM role like the afore-mentioned Makalele etc. Under MH's current tactics both Whelan and N'Zonzi play as a central pair, reasonably deep as their main job is to break up play and feed the 4 attacking players in front of them. Both have a licence to get forward, but both have to protect the back four. Naturally N'Zonzi tends to be involved in attacking play more than Whelan as Glenn is more comfortable in space where can play his simple passing game, which naturally is further back. Also Glenn does not cope well under pressure and quite often loses possession when pressed with no obvious outlet. However he is excellent at closing down the opposition and the defensive side is his strongest asset - But he does NOT play as a holding DM - we do not play that formation.
He has had a good start to the season and it is no surprise that Sidwell has not been able to dislodge him from the team as many thought he would when we signed him. However I think a few are overstating the impact of his potential absence through injury, and this may well be a chance for someone else to shine and possibly show us that maybe there is more to Stoke's midfield than some of you think.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Oct 17, 2014 15:06:11 GMT
Tbh Cameron had a terrific game against Belgium there.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 15:08:03 GMT
He was excellent last season as well pez.
Glenn and Nzonzi are the deeper midfielders but it's not true to say they have the exact same job because they don't. Glenn is the one who sits, shields the back four, plugs the gaps when the full backs go forward.
Nzonzi is the box to box type, tasked with both keeping possession and bringing the ball forward (which he could sometimes do better) and the player ahead of them is the number 10 tasked with creating. That's in the 4231.
In the 433 we played at QPR and against Newcastle Glenn was deeper than the other two, Adam and Nzonzi.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 15:10:39 GMT
This thread is getting a bit silly now, and I do wonder what some of you lot are watching at times... Whelan does not play the true DM role like the afore-mentioned Makalele etc. Under MH's current tactics both Whelan and N'Zonzi play as a central pair, reasonably deep as their main job is to break up play and feed the 4 attacking players in front of them. Both have a licence to get forward, but both have to protect the back four. Naturally N'Zonzi tends to be involved in attacking play more than Whelan as Glenn is more comfortable in space where can play his simple passing game, which naturally is further back. Also Glenn does not cope well under pressure and quite often loses possession when pressed with no obvious outlet. However he is excellent at closing down the opposition and the defensive side is his strongest asset - But he does NOT play as a holding DM - we do not play that formation. He has had a good start to the season and it is no surprise that Sidwell has not been able to dislodge him from the team as many thought he would when we signed him. However I think a few are overstating the impact of his potential absence through injury, and this may well be a chance for someone else to shine and possibly show us that maybe there is more to Stoke's midfield than some of you think. Its pretty clear they have different roles, N'Zonzi is given a bit of freedom where Whelan isn't, if this wasn't the case then it wouldn't always be N'Zonzi moving forward.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2014 15:53:27 GMT
He was excellent last season as well pez. Glenn and Nzonzi are the deeper midfielders but it's not true to say they have the exact same job because they don't. Glenn is the one who sits, shields the back four, plugs the gaps when the full backs go forward. Nzonzi is the box to box type, tasked with both keeping possession and bringing the ball forward (which he could sometimes do better) and the player ahead of them is the number 10 tasked with creating. That's in the 4231. In the 433 we played at QPR and against Newcastle Glenn was deeper than the other two, Adam and Nzonzi. This is absolutely spot on. On several occasions this season we haven't even played 4-2-3-1 but 4-3-3 in possession and 4-1-4-1 when not but on ALL occasions Glenn is the player tasked with sitting in front of the back four as a typical defensive centre mid. I'll be utterly gob smacked if Hughes plays Adam there, who has shown that he is at his best when played in a three with two other players in there to do the water carrying for him - Whelan and Walters did it last season when Charlie had that great run before he got suspended and he hasn't played in a '2' this season, save for against Pompey in the cup.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 23, 2014 14:08:58 GMT
"Glenn unfortunately has a fracture in his leg. It's not in a plastercast, we'd like to manage it as best we can, but it looks like he'll be out for four to six weeks"
"It's a blow for us because he's a big part of what we do and it's blow for him because he's been playing well. We do have options as we've discussed"
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 23, 2014 14:11:15 GMT
Gutted about Whelan. He's going to be a big loss for that amount of time, especially with so many games coming up.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 23, 2014 14:21:24 GMT
Great opportunity for Cameron though.
Pretty much the only way Geoffrey was ever going to get a semi-extended run in midfield was through injury to Whelan or N'Zonzi.
Up to him to grasp it.
4-6 weeks is a good window for him to really press his case
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 23, 2014 14:29:51 GMT
Great opportunity for Cameron though. Pretty much the only way Geoffrey was ever going to get a semi-extended run in midfield was through injury to Whelan or N'Zonzi. Up to him to grasp it. 4-6 weeks is a good window for him to really press his case It'll be interesting to see who he uses in Whelan's position. Last week he started with N'Zonzi there with Adam and Ireland in front of him. I don't think N'Zonzi really works in the holding role.
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 23, 2014 14:33:21 GMT
After Cameron's impressive performance there on Sunday, he HAS to be the only choice in Sparky's mind? I thought our midfield was overran with the Nzonzi - Adam - Ireland combo.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 23, 2014 14:43:48 GMT
Big blow that.
Speedy recovery, Glenn.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 23, 2014 14:56:49 GMT
Cameron couldn't have timed his return better. We still have Sidwell on the bench too. And there's always Palacios.......................
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Post by Northy on Oct 24, 2014 21:01:10 GMT
And there's always Palacios.......................
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 11, 2014 3:15:42 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 11, 2014 4:27:41 GMT
Great news however I'm amazed the club have let him go bearing in mind it's a friendly. If he gets re injured then questions will be asked.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 7:16:10 GMT
Great news however I'm amazed the club have let him go bearing in mind it's a friendly. If he gets re injured then questions will be asked. We don't have a choice though do we? Don't FIFA regulations dictate that a country can call a player up and do their own medical assessment on them to see whether he's fit to play or not? Or have I just dreamt that? - Wouldn't surprise me to be fair :-)
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 11, 2014 9:26:30 GMT
Even if he doesn't feature for Ireland, it'll be interesting to see whether Hughes sticks him straight back in against Burnley
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 11, 2014 9:29:08 GMT
Even if he doesn't feature for Ireland, it'll be interesting to see whether Hughes sticks him straight back in against Burnley Little chance of that I reckon Grapey.
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 11, 2014 9:52:15 GMT
I agree, Jim.
But he's a determined little bugger and he won't have lost loads of sharpness, you wouldn't think? He's only missed a few weeks.
And if the bone has been deemed to have healed sufficiently for him to start training (and it seems it has), he'll have had a fortnight of training to top up.
You'd think it'd be the bench maybe - and then a case of how difficult Sidwell (and maybe Cameron depending on Bardsley) continues to make it for Hughes.
But if Whelan gets on for Ireland against Scotland or America, it'll be a tricky one for him
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Post by borat on Nov 11, 2014 10:16:20 GMT
Even though Sidwell has done well, Whelan has to replace him when fully fit.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 11, 2014 10:18:46 GMT
Even though Sidwell has done well, Whelan has to replace him when fully fit. Not too sure on that one mate. The Sidwell - N'Zonzi axis has looked good to me and it makes sense to continue with it until it splutters or fails.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2014 10:38:10 GMT
Even though Sidwell has done well, Whelan has to replace him when fully fit. Not too sure on that one mate. The Sidwell - N'Zonzi axis has looked good to me and it makes sense to continue with it until it splutters or fails. I agree. It would be interesting to see Sidwell get forward a few times in a game instead of N'Zonzi; I fancy he has a better shot are more likely to score.
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Post by homer32 on Nov 11, 2014 10:40:17 GMT
Hughesy doesn't change a winning team so Sidwell will keep his place .
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Post by pez75 on Nov 11, 2014 10:44:57 GMT
Even though Sidwell has done well, Whelan has to replace him when fully fit. Sorry, but thats bollocks. He should have to wait for his chance like everybody else.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 11, 2014 10:47:16 GMT
Even though Sidwell has done well, Whelan has to replace him when fully fit. Sorry, but thats bollocks. He should have to wait for his chance like everybody else. Pez, surely Toast would say balderdash or poppycock as opposed to bollocks?
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Post by pez75 on Nov 11, 2014 10:53:07 GMT
Sorry, but thats bollocks. He should have to wait for his chance like everybody else. Pez, surely Toast would say balderdash or poppycock as opposed to bollocks? Ha! - Did you see last nights episode? More effs & jeffs than a defeat at the Britannia!!
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 11, 2014 10:55:40 GMT
Recorded it mate. Had to watch a recording of last night's Walking Dead instead! Hope you're well.
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