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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 13:04:47 GMT
Martin Spinks @mspinks10 21m Big question mark. Sidwell on standby or drop Adam back I imagine Adam is a good shout, and an option I hadn't even considered. A couple of years ago most would have laughed at the suggestion but he has since proven he can perform in a midfield 2. He certainly displayed the fitness, and a level of discipline, that shattered the "he can only play in a midfield 3" myth. We'd obviously lose a bit of the protection that Whelan offers but we'd gain a range of passing and distribution that could be a massive benefit to the team, something that is sorely lacking with Glenn. He'd play it in a much more "Quarterback" type role and that could be important, especially in a home game when the emphasis is on attack and scoring goals. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Sidwell or Cameron given the nod, but Adam is definitely another option. I don't think he has proved that at all to be honest.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 13:07:10 GMT
When Real Madrid won La Liga in 2002/03, Makelele* made one goal assist. * Makelele was a great player by the way. He wasn't appreciated, he had way more that lead to goals than the statisticians didn't count. He handed in a transfer request as his calls for wage increases went unheard. He went to chelsea had one shot on goal and scored. Had a 100% tally that season He has more championships than any of our players and was considered the best holding midfielder at real of his time. AND he still scored more than once every 5 years... So they're phantom stats that the statisticians didn't count, you can't provide evidence of, but they definitely, definitely happened? Give it up mate.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 17, 2014 13:08:07 GMT
Stokemanusa, a few things. 1) Yaya Toure plays as a box to boxer, not a defensive midfielder. 2). Those players don't have 'sizeable goal tallies'. 3) If Whelan 'not chipping in' was such a problem why hasn't he been dropped? 4) If Wilson 'being a liability' was such a problem why hasn't he been dropped?
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Post by thestatusquo on Oct 17, 2014 13:08:22 GMT
Stokemanusa has completely lost the plot here Next he'll be comparing Messi with Lewis Neal But can Lewis Neal do it on a barmy Tuesday night in Barcelona? They would be barmy to play him on balmy night though
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 13:09:16 GMT
Adam is a good shout, and an option I hadn't even considered. A couple of years ago most would have laughed at the suggestion but he has since proven he can perform in a midfield 2. He certainly displayed the fitness, and a level of discipline, that shattered the "he can only play in a midfield 3" myth. We'd obviously lose a bit of the protection that Whelan offers but we'd gain a range of passing and distribution that could be a massive benefit to the team, something that is sorely lacking with Glenn. He'd play it in a much more "Quarterback" type role and that could be important, especially in a home game when the emphasis is on attack and scoring goals. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Sidwell or Cameron given the nod, but Adam is definitely another option. I don't think he has proved that at all to be honest. I thought he did last season mate. I forget the run of games in question to be honest though. It'd be a risk to swap Whelan for Adam but I could see some merit in it, with it being a winnable home game.
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 13:10:51 GMT
I actually think Adam played deeper when we played Man Utd at home?
But then Walters also played to make up the running? Possibly?!
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Post by foster on Oct 17, 2014 13:11:31 GMT
Is Sidwell available?
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:11:40 GMT
Chief, a few things.
1) Toure has a partner who crosses the half line at least once a half and allows him to get forward. 9 times out of ten he's in a defensive role until city gain possession. He does something so alien to stoke midfielders, he get's forward and goes from one box to the other... He can because his side doesn't have Wilson's lying about waiting to cause errors. He started as a CB btw and has always said it's the best part of his game at the back.
2). Those players don't have 'sizeable goal tallies'.... Compared to Whelan they are messi like.
3) Hughes attempted to try Geoff in the whelan role, Geoff pulled a muscle a few minutes into his appearance or did you forget? Hopefully he's fit to try again, as well as Sidwell. Problem is we spent millions for diouf and neglected CM for another window yet again costing us this time around as other's progressed we've maintained.
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Post by thestatusquo on Oct 17, 2014 13:11:55 GMT
I'd worry if we put Adam there. He just doesn't have the defensive mind set that Glen has and his tackling ability is not particularly top notch !!
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 13:14:33 GMT
He played him against the mighty Portsmouth. Doesn't seem to be like he was in a massive hurry to replace Whelan with him.
Those players' records aren't Messi like at all and you've been reduced to flat out making things up to try and argue they do.
Toure is given license to roam and get forward, usually as part of a two man midfield. Glenn's job is different - his is to sit in front of the back four and do a screening job.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 13:18:03 GMT
I'd worry if we put Adam there. He just doesn't have the defensive mind set that Glen has and his tackling ability is not particularly top notch !! It’d definitely be a risk mate and it’s much more likely he’ll go with somebody like Cameron or Sidwell. If he did go with Adam it’d be a slight change in set-up as, like you say, his attributes would mean it wouldn’t be a like-for-like swap. I just think it might be a gamble worth taking, given that we’re struggling for goals and we may benefit from a change to a slightly more attacking approach. It’s a winnable home match so there is some merit in it.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:26:14 GMT
I really hope we get a proper CDM display on Saturday from Sidwell ,Muni ,Wilson, Cameron or Nzonzi to see what it's like to have someone who sits infront of the back four actually have a go at his man in the center or pass and move to get a one-two. It would be a nice change of scenery.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:26:59 GMT
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 13:29:41 GMT
That's your most sensible post this last week, stokemanusa
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:30:08 GMT
Stokemanusa, a few things. 1) Yaya Toure plays as a box to boxer, not a defensive midfielder. 2). Those players don't have 'sizeable goal tallies'. 3) If Whelan 'not chipping in' was such a problem why hasn't he been dropped? 4) If Wilson 'being a liability' was such a problem why hasn't he been dropped? Hmm because we have no CB's who can run faster than a loaded vauxhall corsa driving over a sinkhole. Same for CM with all our injuries. Bless hughesy he tried Cameron but he pulled something and Sidwell had a Ankle injury early season. Hopefully Huth gets healthy as do our midfielders. I'd prefer to try with Glenn or Adam on standby. We've got a lot of holes in depth.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 13:31:24 GMT
So you want the defensive midfielder to both sit and get up and down, do the donkey work and be creative, and score goals as well.
Touchdown!
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:31:29 GMT
That's your most sensible post this last week, stokemanusa Seeing as you've only been around for about a week. Thanks.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:32:51 GMT
So you want the defensive midfielder to both sit and get up and down, do the donkey work and be creative, and score goals as well. Touchdown! I want him to not have ankles of an Irish prostitute aswell. All that bending over. Is that to non PC?
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Post by unknown182 on Oct 17, 2014 13:36:01 GMT
So Ollie Shenton it is then
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 13:41:55 GMT
Your love is unconditional I'll give you that but he hasnt been better than Shawcross, liecester at home. It gave hughes a thought to try Cameron in the middle. I just think hes been better, not syaing he's miles ahead of Shawcross, he'd be next on my list along side Crouch.
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 13:44:20 GMT
I like the spine of our team - Begovic, Shawcross, Whelan and Crouch - and think all four would still be my first names on the teamsheet - even with the excitement Moses and Diouf look like they're going to bring to the table this season.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 13:47:15 GMT
We already have, Adam in the last game we played comes to mind, are you ever right Im talking about cdms here fanboy. Nice diversion of the fact whelo is shite at that aspect of the game... quite possibly the worst cdm when it comes to offense in the history of the English top flight... if not the worst, hes way up there, you have to admit the return is pretty feckin shite mate... 3 going on 4 years since hes had a sniff playing nearly every game. Yea its nice to see Adam score from the center, it reminds me of what we could have if we invested at cm like we did for diouf. We could move on from whelan and get another nzonzi class player. You still don't get what his job is and why he isn't scoring many do you, its simple, he's to far back on the pitch to get many chances, doing his job. As been mentioned before and is a good example, Makélélé scored 17 goals in his whole career (inc 2 in 144 for Chelsea), and as we both know, he was a way way way better player than Whelan is, dm's DON'T score many goals, its not in their job description. Just read the other comments and it looks like others have beat me to it, you really don't have a clue what you're on about.
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 17, 2014 13:59:31 GMT
Wow.
Just, wow.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 13:59:50 GMT
So you want the defensive midfielder to both sit and get up and down, do the donkey work and be creative, and score goals as well. Touchdown! It's madness aint it, I really hoped it was a wind up to begin with but it quickly became apparent that it isn't, I suppose some people just don't understand football and how a team works, he clearly doesn't anyway
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 14:14:25 GMT
So you want the defensive midfielder to both sit and get up and down, do the donkey work and be creative, and score goals as well. Touchdown! I want him to not have ankles of an Irish prostitute aswell. All that bending over. Is that to non PC? No, just generally moronic.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 14:23:23 GMT
Im talking about cdms here fanboy. Nice diversion of the fact whelo is shite at that aspect of the game... quite possibly the worst cdm when it comes to offense in the history of the English top flight... if not the worst, hes way up there, you have to admit the return is pretty feckin shite mate... 3 going on 4 years since hes had a sniff playing nearly every game. Yea its nice to see Adam score from the center, it reminds me of what we could have if we invested at cm like we did for diouf. We could move on from whelan and get another nzonzi class player. You still don't get what his job is and why he isn't scoring many do you, its simple, he's to far back on the pitch to get many chances, doing his job. As been mentioned before and is a good example, Makélélé scored 17 goals in his whole career (inc 2 in 144 for Chelsea), and as we both know, he was a way way way better player than Whelan is, dm's DON'T score many goals, its not in their job description. Just read the other comments and it looks like others have beat me to it, you really don't have a clue what you're on about. I've already tried to reason with him. The underlying theme is Geoff Cameron. He should play at right back and in midfield then all would be ace!
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Oct 17, 2014 14:36:40 GMT
Im talking about cdms here fanboy. Nice diversion of the fact whelo is shite at that aspect of the game... quite possibly the worst cdm when it comes to offense in the history of the English top flight... if not the worst, hes way up there, you have to admit the return is pretty feckin shite mate... 3 going on 4 years since hes had a sniff playing nearly every game. Yea its nice to see Adam score from the center, it reminds me of what we could have if we invested at cm like we did for diouf. We could move on from whelan and get another nzonzi class player. You still don't get what his job is and why he isn't scoring many do you, its simple, he's to far back on the pitch to get many chances, doing his job. As been mentioned before and is a good example, Makélélé scored 17 goals in his whole career (inc 2 in 144 for Chelsea), and as we both know, he was a way way way better player than Whelan is, dm's DON'T score many goals, its not in their job description. Just read the other comments and it looks like others have beat me to it, you really don't have a clue what you're on about. You cant use Makelele as an example
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Oct 17, 2014 14:39:28 GMT
So you want the defensive midfielder to both sit and get up and down, do the donkey work and be creative, and score goals as well. Touchdown! Depends who the team is. Plenty of players have managed to do it. Of course the players that have done it have often played for teams that dominate for long periods.
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Post by pottersrule on Oct 17, 2014 14:41:26 GMT
yeah Im coming round to the idea of Nzonzi being the holding midfielder. His box-to-box exploits are great until he gets to the final third of the pitch and tries to shoot. If he focuses on breaking up the play and shielding the back 4, he can still get lots of possession and start our attacks off. Hes never going to be the Yaya Toure type player that we all hoped for. I agree Nzonzi's only problem was his development was in france and not Germany or Africa. He'd be better than toure with his foot skill. Difference is Toure goes at defenses hard. Nzonzi just doesn't have the aggression at the final third. He should be our cdm Saturday. Simplify most of that.He can't fuckin shoot.
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Post by thestatusquo on Oct 17, 2014 14:41:42 GMT
I'd worry if we put Adam there. He just doesn't have the defensive mind set that Glen has and his tackling ability is not particularly top notch !! It’d definitely be a risk mate and it’s much more likely he’ll go with somebody like Cameron or Sidwell. If he did go with Adam it’d be a slight change in set-up as, like you say, his attributes would mean it wouldn’t be a like-for-like swap. I just think it might be a gamble worth taking, given that we’re struggling for goals and we may benefit from a change to a slightly more attacking approach. It’s a winnable home match so there is some merit in it. I can see where your coming from WD and can't argue with it much. He sometimes terrifies me when he's got the ball deep in our own half as he is prone to giving it way. His tackling is often terrible and when the red mist descends, which it often does, he can become a bit of a danger. Swansea are no mugs and I think it will be a tough game.
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