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Post by Pugsley on Oct 17, 2014 7:42:53 GMT
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, more like you are. How do you know he wants Wilson out of the team? You've guessed based on your belief that he should be and come up with some way of shifting him around in order to 'ultimately' get him out of the side. You call that diplomatic, I would say hanging him out to dry.
And why would replacing one centre midfielder with another be putting a square peg in a round hole?
I suspect (as do a lot of people) that based on his performances, Wilson's current spell at centre back MIGHT be coming to an end and Hughes might be CONSIDERING bringing Huth back. Now of course if Wilson wasn't making some costly errors then people wouldn't be thinking that the above might be a possibility but the factor of the matter is that he is - even some of Wilson's biggest supporters are starting to wonder if Huth should come back now. Of course nobody can know for certain what Hughes is thinking, nobody has said that they do - only YOU have suggested that they do know but people are surely allowed to SPECULATE based on the performances that they are seeing aren't they? As for replacing one central midfielder with another midfielder and seeing it as square peg in a round hole it was YOU who suggested that was the case in the first place - when I suggested Hughes might play Wilson there.
Beep beep, this vehicle is reversing.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2014 7:48:34 GMT
I suspect (as do a lot of people) that based on his performances, Wilson's current spell at centre back MIGHT be coming to an end and Hughes might be CONSIDERING bringing Huth back. Now of course if Wilson wasn't making some costly errors then people wouldn't be thinking that the above might be a possibility but the factor of the matter is that he is - even some of Wilson's biggest supporters are starting to wonder if Huth should come back now. Of course nobody can know for certain what Hughes is thinking, nobody has said that they do - only YOU have suggested that they do know but people are surely allowed to SPECULATE based on the performances that they are seeing aren't they? As for replacing one central midfielder with another midfielder and seeing it as square peg in a round hole it was YOU who suggested that was the case in the first place - when I suggested Hughes might play Wilson there.
Beep beep, this vehicle is reversing.....
Eh? I'm ( and I don't know why) having to patiently spell it out for you because you've gone and jumped in feet first again haven't you?
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 17, 2014 8:33:53 GMT
Beep beep, this vehicle is reversing.....
Eh? I'm ( and I don't know why) having to patiently spell it out for you because you've gone and jumped in feet first again haven't you?
Don't think so, I know exactly what you are saying. I just think it's a load of old arse.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 17, 2014 9:23:55 GMT
Martin Spinks @mspinks10 21m Big question mark. Sidwell on standby or drop Adam back I imagine
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 9:37:20 GMT
Anyone remember Cameron playing there against Arsenal a couple of seasons ago (first home game of the season I think).
He got MOTM and pretty much stopped all of their attacks.
I still think Sidwell will be favourite - hopefully he can play the DM role.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 10:52:26 GMT
Im talking about cdms here fanboy. Nice diversion of the fact whelo is shite at that aspect of the game... quite possibly the worst cdm when it comes to offense in the history of the English top flight... if not the worst, hes way up there, you have to admit the return is pretty feckin shite mate... 3 going on 4 years since hes had a sniff playing nearly every game. Yea its nice to see Adam score from the center, it reminds me of what we could have if we invested at cm like we did for diouf. We could move on from whelan and get another nzonzi class player. It isn't a 'cdm's job to score goals mate. And when Nzonzi has played that role, as I keep saying, he's neglected the key part of it - the, erm, 'defensive' bit. You look at some of the best regarded defensive midfielders in the world over the past decade or so and they tend not to score many goals. Makelele, Mascherano, Busquets, Martinez - not renowned for rattling the old onion bag owd. You conveniently forgot the better cdm's all who score in your summation, to name one. Yaya Toure' he beat our side in the FA cup final getting forward and getting a screamer of a shot and he defends better than most and still manages to score. Even Mascherano, Makelele, Sergio Busquets and Martinez have a sizable goal tally. Sorry, but the oatcake legend of ' its not a CDM job to score' is the biggest BS lie there ever is and if it continues to allow players like whelan to pinch it trying to play in a league with CDM's that can do both, well be bottom of the table for more than one reason. Pick one of the for mentioned CDM who hasn't scored in 4 years and you've got an argument. You Can't. Quit telling yourself 'tactics' allow him to be sub-par. Ask yourself, why did hughes wan't Cattermole? Why did he try Cameron in the middle early this season? He knows the back isn't chipping in but doing it on defense. The difference between top 8 and mid table down is a cdm that scores.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2014 11:04:10 GMT
It isn't a 'cdm's job to score goals mate. And when Nzonzi has played that role, as I keep saying, he's neglected the key part of it - the, erm, 'defensive' bit. You look at some of the best regarded defensive midfielders in the world over the past decade or so and they tend not to score many goals. Makelele, Mascherano, Busquets, Martinez - not renowned for rattling the old onion bag owd. You conviently forgot the better cdm's all who score in your summation, to name one. Yaya Toure' he defends better than most and still manages to score. Even Mascherano and Makelele have a sizable goal tally. Pick one of the for mentioned who hasn't scored in 4 years and you've got an argument. Why are you persevering with this mate? DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDERS AREN'T THERE TO SCORE GOALS. You're not really doing yourself any favours by criticising Glenn for not scoring enough. In four and a bit seasons at Barcelona, Mascherano has NEVER scored for Barcelona, indeed in his whole career he has scored just three times in over 400 games. And we're talking about arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world here at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 11:07:23 GMT
Are we on about Mascherano, the centre half?
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:08:33 GMT
You conviently forgot the better cdm's all who score in your summation, to name one. Yaya Toure' he defends better than most and still manages to score. Even Mascherano and Makelele have a sizable goal tally. Pick one of the for mentioned who hasn't scored in 4 years and you've got an argument. Why are you persevering with this mate? DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDERS AREN'T THERE TO SCORE GOALS. You're not really doing yourself any favours by criticising Glenn for not scoring enough. In four and a bit seasons at Barcelona, Mascherano has NEVER scored for Barcelona, indeed in his whole career he has scored just three times in over 400 games. And we're talking about arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world here at the moment. He has plenty of assists and shots on goal. Name one stoke CDM that has nearly as many attempts or assists. You can't. BTW he's considered a Defensive center in Barca's setup.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:10:48 GMT
Are we on about Mascherano, the centre half? Yep' he's not a CDM' he's a sweeper.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 11:11:37 GMT
Martin Spinks @mspinks10 21m Big question mark. Sidwell on standby or drop Adam back I imagine Adam is a good shout, and an option I hadn't even considered. A couple of years ago most would have laughed at the suggestion but he has since proven he can perform in a midfield 2. He certainly displayed the fitness, and a level of discipline, that shattered the "he can only play in a midfield 3" myth. We'd obviously lose a bit of the protection that Whelan offers but we'd gain a range of passing and distribution that could be a massive benefit to the team, something that is sorely lacking with Glenn. He'd play it in a much more "Quarterback" type role and that could be important, especially in a home game when the emphasis is on attack and scoring goals. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Sidwell or Cameron given the nod, but Adam is definitely another option.
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Post by chell_rosey on Oct 17, 2014 11:12:19 GMT
Martin Spinks @mspinks10 21m Big question mark. Sidwell on standby or drop Adam back I imagine Eh? Red for Charlie then....?
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:13:54 GMT
Martin Spinks @mspinks10 21m Big question mark. Sidwell on standby or drop Adam back I imagine Eh? Red for Charlie then....? Charlie is the only one of the starting bunch that can get it going. You'd hope he's fit and ready to go. Other than that we have Sidewell and possibly Cameron if he's fit. Doubt he'd use Ireland that far back.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2014 11:15:59 GMT
Why are you persevering with this mate? DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDERS AREN'T THERE TO SCORE GOALS. You're not really doing yourself any favours by criticising Glenn for not scoring enough. In four and a bit seasons at Barcelona, Mascherano has NEVER scored for Barcelona, indeed in his whole career he has scored just three times in over 400 games. And we're talking about arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world here at the moment. He has plenty of assists and shots on goal. Name one stoke CDM that has nearly as many attempts or assists. You can't. BTW he's considered a Defensive center in Barca's setup.
You've just been slating him for not scoring goals and you gave examples of Mascherano and Makelele as having 'sizeable' scoring tallies to prove your point.
Well Mascherano isn't true and (I've just checked) Makelele scored 4 goals in 475 games for Real Madrid, Chelsea and PSG so that one was nonsense too.
Now that's been proved to be rubbish, you want to start slagging him for something else?
EDIT: Just seen your other replies - Mascherano has played for a ton of his career as a central defensive midfielder, doing EXACTLY the same job that Glenn does for us.
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Post by Davef on Oct 17, 2014 11:16:38 GMT
It isn't a 'cdm's job to score goals mate. And when Nzonzi has played that role, as I keep saying, he's neglected the key part of it - the, erm, 'defensive' bit. You look at some of the best regarded defensive midfielders in the world over the past decade or so and they tend not to score many goals. Makelele, Mascherano, Busquets, Martinez - not renowned for rattling the old onion bag owd. You conveniently forgot the better cdm's all who score in your summation, to name one. Yaya Toure' he beat our side in the FA cup final getting forward and getting a screamer of a shot and he defends better than most and still manages to score. Even Mascherano, Makelele, Sergio Busquets and Martinez have a sizable goal tally. Sorry, but the oatcake legend of ' its not a CDM job to score' is the biggest BS lie there ever is and if it continues to allow players like whelan to pinch it trying to play in a league with CDM's that can do both, well be bottom of the table for more than one reason. Pick one of the for mentioned CDM who hasn't scored in 4 years and you've got an argument. You Can't. Quit telling yourself 'tactics' allow him to be sub-par. Ask yourself, why did hughes wan't Cattermole? Why did he try Cameron in the middle early this season? He knows the back isn't chipping in but doing it on defense. The difference between top 8 and mid table down is a cdm that scores. Claude Makelele - 2 goals in 144 appearances for Chelsea (including two title winning teams and two who were runners up). Sergio Busquets - 5 goals in 186 appearances for Barcelona (4 La Liga Titles, 2 Champions League winners medals). Glenn Whelan - 5 goals in 203 appearences for Stoke City. Carry on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 11:21:41 GMT
It isn't a 'cdm's job to score goals mate. And when Nzonzi has played that role, as I keep saying, he's neglected the key part of it - the, erm, 'defensive' bit. You look at some of the best regarded defensive midfielders in the world over the past decade or so and they tend not to score many goals. Makelele, Mascherano, Busquets, Martinez - not renowned for rattling the old onion bag owd. You conveniently forgot the better cdm's all who score in your summation, to name one. Yaya Toure' he beat our side in the FA cup final getting forward and getting a screamer of a shot and he defends better than most and still manages to score. Even Mascherano, Makelele, Sergio Busquets and Martinez have a sizable goal tally. Sorry, but the oatcake legend of ' its not a CDM job to score' is the biggest BS lie there ever is and if it continues to allow players like whelan to pinch it trying to play in a league with CDM's that can do both, well be bottom of the table for more than one reason. Pick one of the for mentioned CDM who hasn't scored in 4 years and you've got an argument. You Can't. Quit telling yourself 'tactics' allow him to be sub-par. Ask yourself, why did hughes wan't Cattermole? Why did he try Cameron in the middle early this season? He knows the back isn't chipping in but doing it on defense. The difference between top 8 and mid table down is a cdm that scores. Bloody hell mate, they're shit examples!
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:22:10 GMT
Claude Makelele had 16 goals in his career as a defensive center and more assist's in one season at Real Madrid than Glenn will ever score or assist at Stoke.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 11:25:59 GMT
I think we should drop Bego. He's only scored 1 in his entire career.
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Post by Davef on Oct 17, 2014 11:26:21 GMT
Claude Makelele had 16 goals in his career as a defensive center and more assist's in one season at Real Madrid than Glenn will ever score or assist at Stoke. And how many of those goals were scored while he played for Real Madrid, Chelsea and Paris St. Germain? He's also been transferred for combined fees of well over £30M during his career. Glenn Whelan cost Stoke half a million quid. I'm sure you can supply us with the details of all these assists as well.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2014 11:28:07 GMT
Claude Makelele had 16 goals in his career as a defensive center and more assist's in one season at Real Madrid than Glenn will ever score or assist at Stoke.
When he was playing at the very top of his career and was the outstanding player in the world playing that position, he scored 4 goals in 475 games for three of the biggest teams in world football over ten seasons.
Scoring goals was something that the manager's of Real Madrid, Chelsea and PSG obviously weren't particularly concerned about.
Central defensive midfielders aren't there to score goals.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:28:56 GMT
Claude Makelele had 16 goals in his career as a defensive center and more assist's in one season at Real Madrid than Glenn will ever score or assist at Stoke. And how many of those goals were scored while he played for Real Madrid, Chelsea and Paris St. Germain? He's also been transferred for combined fees of well over £30M during his career. Glenn Whelan cost Stoke half a million quid. I'm sure you can supply us with the details of all these assists as well. Those assist's made them champions' in one year alone, Zidane called Claude' 'the engine' by getting forward as well as defending. Say what you will, that 500k Irish stop gap you all love won't ever get us over top 10. It's a cheap fix for a needed engine replacement. If you wonder why our attacks never build watch Whelan with the ball as the front players look to get open.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 11:29:36 GMT
Have I just landed in some weird, parallel universe?
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Post by thebet365 on Oct 17, 2014 11:31:08 GMT
Claude Makelele had 16 goals in his career as a defensive center and more assist's in one season at Real Madrid than Glenn will ever score or assist at Stoke. Glenn has 18 so there
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 11:31:40 GMT
Begovic
Bardsley Shawcross Wilson/Huth Pieters
Cameron/Sidwell N'Zonzi
Diouf Adam Moses
Crouch
or
Begovic
Bardsley Shawcross Wilson/Huth Pieters
Adam N'Zonzi
Diouf Ireland/Bojan Moses
Crouch
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Post by thebet365 on Oct 17, 2014 11:33:28 GMT
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:33:52 GMT
Claude Makelele had 16 goals in his career as a defensive center and more assist's in one season at Real Madrid than Glenn will ever score or assist at Stoke. Glenn has 18 so there * Assist's* you tits' as in passes that lead to goals... Makelele had so many he was the Real 'engine' when was whelans last assist or goal? 2012?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 17, 2014 11:34:52 GMT
Glenn's goal scoring record is poor in my view when you consider he has got a good shot on him, he has taken a lot of set pieces in his time here and at certain times under Pulis he was the alleged creative midfielder in the cage. However, that's the least of our worries now. The fact is that there is no one anywhere near as selfless and disciplined as him and it is a huge blow if he's out for any amount of time.
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Post by Davef on Oct 17, 2014 11:35:04 GMT
And how many of those goals were scored while he played for Real Madrid, Chelsea and Paris St. Germain? He's also been transferred for combined fees of well over £30M during his career. Glenn Whelan cost Stoke half a million quid. I'm sure you can supply us with the details of all these assists as well. Those assist's made them champions' in one year alone, Zidane called Claude' 'the engine' by getting forward as well as defending. Say what you will, that 500k Irish stop gap you all love won't ever get us over top 10. It's a cheap fix for a needed engine replacement. If you wonder why our attacks never build watch Whelan with the ball as the front players look to get open. When Real Madrid won La Liga in 2002/03, Makelele* made one goal assist. * Makelele was a great player by the way. And describing Glenn Whelan as an "Irish stop gap" is pretty shit if you don't mind me saying?
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 11:37:13 GMT
Wonder if we'll ever go back in for Cattermole to compete with Whelan for the DM role?
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 11:38:31 GMT
Begovic
Bardsley Shawcross Wilson/Huth Pieters
Cameron/Sidwell N'Zonzi
Diouf Adam Moses
Crouch
or
Begovic
Bardsley Shawcross Wilson/Huth Pieters
Adam N'Zonzi
Diouf Ireland/Bojan Moses
Crouch
Part of me would like to see the second team, but I think the first one is more likely.
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