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Post by thestatusquo on Oct 16, 2014 12:37:17 GMT
I think Hughes will go with Sidwell, an experienced campaigner, who will do an okay job. I do worry more about our wings, if MBD and Vic are not available and Arnie and Ossie do not shine. I think he has to Jezza or it does bring into question why he signed him.
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Post by maine on Oct 16, 2014 12:45:31 GMT
I'll add to those hoping Glenn is fit. Looking at the Germany match I suspect he might well have been around to block the goal.
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 16, 2014 12:50:13 GMT
I don't think so jeycov - apart from the tweet from his wife Karen I've seen nothing reported, which is a bit odd?
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Post by pez75 on Oct 16, 2014 13:52:49 GMT
Do we have an official update on how serious the injury is? According to some of the knicker-wetters on here it is cataclysmic...
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Post by pez75 on Oct 16, 2014 13:56:06 GMT
I'll add to those hoping Glenn is fit. Looking at the Germany match I suspect he might well have been around to block the goal. Fuck me this is getting embarassing now! Super Glenn would have led Ireland to victory over the World Champions! Yes, Whelan has been playing well, but lets keep some perspective FFS...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 16, 2014 13:59:52 GMT
I know people don't like it but I wouldn't be surprised if Hughes puts Wilson in there. It gives him the excuse to finally move Wilson out of defence and bring Rob back and then ultimately drop Wilson completely. Personally I'd like to see Muniesa in though.
What if he has a barn storming game?
That's why I said ultimately Pugs.
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Post by maine on Oct 16, 2014 14:11:15 GMT
Pez, Take a look at how slow the Irish defence was to close down on the goal. Glenn's far from a world beater of course, but he's brave and ultra responsible.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 16, 2014 15:50:41 GMT
yeah Im coming round to the idea of Nzonzi being the holding midfielder. His box-to-box exploits are great until he gets to the final third of the pitch and tries to shoot. If he focuses on breaking up the play and shielding the back 4, he can still get lots of possession and start our attacks off. Hes never going to be the Yaya Toure type player that we all hoped for. I agree Nzonzi's only problem was his development was in france and not Germany or Africa. He'd be better than toure with his foot skill. Difference is Toure goes at defenses hard. Nzonzi just doesn't have the aggression at the final third. He should be our cdm Saturday.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 16, 2014 16:48:05 GMT
What if he has a barn storming game?
That's why I said ultimately Pugs.
Ultimately? After one game? 10? The rest of the season? Wilson hasn't done enough in midfield to warrant selection there. If Sidwell doesn't play then you'd have to ask questions why was he signed.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 16, 2014 16:56:49 GMT
Nzonzi at cdm infront of back four with adam to start and geoff to finish. We might actually see a goal from midfield this season now! Fingers crossed. We already have, Adam in the last game we played comes to mind, are you ever right
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Post by adi on Oct 16, 2014 17:06:26 GMT
Pez, Take a look at how slow the Irish defence was to close down on the goal. Glenn's far from a world beater of course, but he's brave and ultra responsible. Agree, same for the Hull goal, much as I want to see bojan get a chance, glen wouldn't have been shrugged off like bojan was for their goal.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Oct 16, 2014 18:36:15 GMT
Aye, but he could come in and then somebody fill Whelan's role, even if he was put in Whelan's position I still think he'd score goals. The player in Whelan's position has to be disciplined and sit in front of the back four and plug the gaps though. That's their primary function. There are still many chances to score goals being in that position, it's not like a defensive mid player is completely isolated from scoring goals. Sidwell is that type of player who can score goals and also played in a defensive position for Fulham. Still scored 10 goals.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 16, 2014 18:42:50 GMT
The player in Whelan's position has to be disciplined and sit in front of the back four and plug the gaps though. That's their primary function. There are still many chances to score goals being in that position, it's not like a defensive mid player is completely isolated from scoring goals. Sidwell is that type of player who can score goals and also played in a defensive position for Fulham. Still scored 10 goals. Not as the defensive midfielder he didn't, in our set up there's very few chances for the DM to score goals,, he's there to let the others do it while knowing that there's someone covering for them if they lose it or there's a break on.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 16, 2014 19:42:22 GMT
That's why I said ultimately Pugs.
Ultimately? After one game? 10? The rest of the season? Wilson hasn't done enough in midfield to warrant selection there. If Sidwell doesn't play then you'd have to ask questions why was he signed. I'm surprised you're even asking the question. Surely you know what ultimately means - it could be one game, it could be more but ultimately he'll get replaced. I've already said that I wouldn't start Wilson, so I don't understand why you're making your second point. As for Sidwell, I wouldn't be surprised to see him there either but as I said I'd like to see Muniesa given a go. I think Whelan's position is the only position in the team where we don't have a ready made replacement and anybody who steps in in the first instance can be seen as a bit of a compromise.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 16, 2014 20:36:03 GMT
Ultimately? After one game? 10? The rest of the season? Wilson hasn't done enough in midfield to warrant selection there. If Sidwell doesn't play then you'd have to ask questions why was he signed. I'm surprised you're even asking the question. Surely you know what ultimately means - it could be one game, it could be more but ultimately he'll get replaced. I've already said that I wouldn't start Wilson, so I don't understand why you're making your second point. As for Sidwell, I wouldn't be surprised to see him there either but as I said I'd like to see Muniesa given a go. I think Whelan's position is the only position in the team where we don't have a ready made replacement and anybody who steps in in the first instance can be seen as a bit of a compromise. You've come up with some clever arsed plan that you think the manager will have concocted to get a player out of the team when you don't even know he wants him out of the team. Whelan is out, so either Sidwell, Palacios or maybe Cameron will come in. If the manager wants Wilson out he will drop him for Robert Huth, Muniesa or Cameron and not fanny around with square pegs in round holes. I thought those days were behind us.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 16, 2014 21:22:06 GMT
I'm surprised you're even asking the question. Surely you know what ultimately means - it could be one game, it could be more but ultimately he'll get replaced. I've already said that I wouldn't start Wilson, so I don't understand why you're making your second point. As for Sidwell, I wouldn't be surprised to see him there either but as I said I'd like to see Muniesa given a go. I think Whelan's position is the only position in the team where we don't have a ready made replacement and anybody who steps in in the first instance can be seen as a bit of a compromise. You've come up with some clever arsed plan that you think the manager will have concocted to get a player out of the team when you don't even know he wants him out of the team. Whelan is out, so either Sidwell, Palacios or maybe Cameron will come in. If the manager wants Wilson out he will drop him for Robert Huth, Muniesa or Cameron and not fanny around with square pegs in round holes. I thought those days were behind us. Don't know why you're getting so aggressive Pugsley. And anyway, making use of a fortunate opportunity to be diplomatic (which is what I actually said) is a bit different to a clever arsed plan connected to get somebody out of the team. But you carry on putting words into other peoples mouths by all means. And as I've already said - ANY replacement for Whelan is going to be a square peg in a round hole to some extent initially, as his position is the only position in the team where we don't have a natural replacement option available.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 21:56:01 GMT
Whelan has been decent for a while now. We shouldn't over react though.
Our biggest problem is scoring goals. Getting Moses and Diouf back is more important.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Cameron play in the DM role.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 16, 2014 22:13:24 GMT
Whelan has been decent for a while now. We shouldn't over react though. Our biggest problem is scoring goals. Getting Moses and Diouf back is more important. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cameron play in the DM role. He's been our best player along side Moses, its a big loss.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 22:36:10 GMT
Whelan has been decent for a while now. We shouldn't over react though. Our biggest problem is scoring goals. Getting Moses and Diouf back is more important. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cameron play in the DM role. He's been our best player along side Moses, its a big loss. You're forgetting Shawcross then?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 16, 2014 23:32:27 GMT
He's been our best player along side Moses, its a big loss. You're forgetting Shawcross then? Nope.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Oct 17, 2014 4:00:10 GMT
There are still many chances to score goals being in that position, it's not like a defensive mid player is completely isolated from scoring goals. Sidwell is that type of player who can score goals and also played in a defensive position for Fulham. Still scored 10 goals. Not as the defensive midfielder he didn't, in our set up there's very few chances for the DM to score goals,, he's there to let the others do it while knowing that there's someone covering for them if they lose it or there's a break on. Could have sworn he played as a CDM for fulham, either way I think he could fit in nicely at CDM.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 5:21:40 GMT
You're forgetting Shawcross then? Nope. Your love is unconditional I'll give you that but he hasnt been better than Shawcross, liecester at home. It gave hughes a thought to try Cameron in the middle.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 5:28:27 GMT
Nzonzi at cdm infront of back four with adam to start and geoff to finish. We might actually see a goal from midfield this season now! Fingers crossed. We already have, Adam in the last game we played comes to mind, are you ever right Im talking about cdms here fanboy. Nice diversion of the fact whelo is shite at that aspect of the game... quite possibly the worst cdm when it comes to offense in the history of the English top flight... if not the worst, hes way up there, you have to admit the return is pretty feckin shite mate... 3 going on 4 years since hes had a sniff playing nearly every game. Yea its nice to see Adam score from the center, it reminds me of what we could have if we invested at cm like we did for diouf. We could move on from whelan and get another nzonzi class player.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 6:09:00 GMT
Looking at this from another perspective. It seems that our squad isn't quite as deep in quality as we and the manager thought.
We're all panicking (rightly) about replacing a 30 year old midfielder that cost 500k when we have 5 other options currently in and out of the side in that position, and none of us can really agree on what the best way forward is.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 6:55:48 GMT
We already have, Adam in the last game we played comes to mind, are you ever right Im talking about cdms here fanboy. Nice diversion of the fact whelo is shite at that aspect of the game... quite possibly the worst cdm when it comes to offense in the history of the English top flight... if not the worst, hes way up there, you have to admit the return is pretty feckin shite mate... 3 going on 4 years since hes had a sniff playing nearly every game. Yea its nice to see Adam score from the center, it reminds me of what we could have if we invested at cm like we did for diouf. We could move on from whelan and get another nzonzi class player. It isn't a 'cdm's job to score goals mate. And when Nzonzi has played that role, as I keep saying, he's neglected the key part of it - the, erm, 'defensive' bit. You look at some of the best regarded defensive midfielders in the world over the past decade or so and they tend not to score many goals. Makelele, Mascherano, Busquets, Martinez - not renowned for rattling the old onion bag owd.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 17, 2014 7:16:59 GMT
You've come up with some clever arsed plan that you think the manager will have concocted to get a player out of the team when you don't even know he wants him out of the team. Whelan is out, so either Sidwell, Palacios or maybe Cameron will come in. If the manager wants Wilson out he will drop him for Robert Huth, Muniesa or Cameron and not fanny around with square pegs in round holes. I thought those days were behind us. Don't know why you're getting so aggressive Pugsley. And anyway, making use of a fortunate opportunity to be diplomatic (which is what I actually said) is a bit different to a clever arsed plan connected to get somebody out of the team. But you carry on putting words into other peoples mouths by all means. And as I've already said - ANY replacement for Whelan is going to be a square peg in a round hole to some extent initially, as his position is the only position in the team where we don't have a natural replacement option available.
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, more like you are. How do you know he wants Wilson out of the team? You've guessed based on your belief that he should be and come up with some way of shifting him around in order to 'ultimately' get him out of the side. You call that diplomatic, I would say hanging him out to dry.
And why would replacing one centre midfielder with another be putting a square peg in a round hole?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 7:20:59 GMT
Don't know why you're getting so aggressive Pugsley. And anyway, making use of a fortunate opportunity to be diplomatic (which is what I actually said) is a bit different to a clever arsed plan connected to get somebody out of the team. But you carry on putting words into other peoples mouths by all means. And as I've already said - ANY replacement for Whelan is going to be a square peg in a round hole to some extent initially, as his position is the only position in the team where we don't have a natural replacement option available.
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, more like you are. How do you know he wants Wilson out of the team? You've guessed based on your belief that he should be and come up with some way of shifting him around in order to 'ultimately' get him out of the side. You call that diplomatic, I would say hanging him out to dry.
And why would replacing one centre midfielder with another be putting a square peg in a round hole?
Because there are different types of midfielder Pugs. Different ones do different jobs. What we've seen so far is that there's only Whelan who does anything like a decent job of protecting the back four. Maybe one of the players we haven't tried there yet will do a good job. Last season showed that none of the others we tried are up to it.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 17, 2014 7:28:21 GMT
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, more like you are. How do you know he wants Wilson out of the team? You've guessed based on your belief that he should be and come up with some way of shifting him around in order to 'ultimately' get him out of the side. You call that diplomatic, I would say hanging him out to dry.
And why would replacing one centre midfielder with another be putting a square peg in a round hole?
Because there are different types of midfielder Pugs. Different ones do different jobs. What we've seen so far is that there's only Whelan who does anything like a decent job of protecting the back four. Maybe one of the players we haven't tried there yet will do a good job. Last season showed that none of the others we tried are up to it.
We've got midfielders in the squad who might not be as affective but they could do a job for a game or two. They might be even better.
I don't get the knicker wetting and certainly don't get some kind of 'diplomatic' scheme to shift a player from one position to another as an 'excuse' for 'ultimately' getting him out of the team. It's piss poor and if Hughes did that he's go way down in my estimation.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 17, 2014 7:32:00 GMT
Because there are different types of midfielder Pugs. Different ones do different jobs. What we've seen so far is that there's only Whelan who does anything like a decent job of protecting the back four. Maybe one of the players we haven't tried there yet will do a good job. Last season showed that none of the others we tried are up to it.
We've got midfielders in the squad who might not be as affective but they could do a job for a game or two. They might be even better.
I don't get the knicker wetting and certainly don't get some kind of 'diplomatic' scheme to shift a player from one position to another as an 'excuse' for 'ultimately' getting him out of the team. It's piss poor and if Hughes did that he's go way down in my estimation.
Personally I think Hughes will just flat out drop Wilson and that day is coming. He's a ruthless bastard when he needs to be, like all good managers. Of course another player might do as well, but the ones we've tried there instead of Whelan up to now emphatically haven't been. So either one of them (Nzonzi, Palacios, Wilson) is suddenly going to be out of nowhere, or someone we've not tried there is going to sink or swim (Sidwell, Cameron, Muniesa). There's arguments for and against any of those three.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2014 7:37:00 GMT
Don't know why you're getting so aggressive Pugsley. And anyway, making use of a fortunate opportunity to be diplomatic (which is what I actually said) is a bit different to a clever arsed plan connected to get somebody out of the team. But you carry on putting words into other peoples mouths by all means. And as I've already said - ANY replacement for Whelan is going to be a square peg in a round hole to some extent initially, as his position is the only position in the team where we don't have a natural replacement option available.
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, more like you are. How do you know he wants Wilson out of the team? You've guessed based on your belief that he should be and come up with some way of shifting him around in order to 'ultimately' get him out of the side. You call that diplomatic, I would say hanging him out to dry.
And why would replacing one centre midfielder with another be putting a square peg in a round hole?
I suspect (as do a lot of people) that based on his performances, Wilson's current spell at centre back MIGHT be coming to an end and Hughes might be CONSIDERING bringing Huth back. Now of course if Wilson wasn't making some costly errors then people wouldn't be thinking that the above might be a possibility but the factor of the matter is that he is - even some of Wilson's biggest supporters are starting to wonder if Huth should come back now. Of course nobody can know for certain what Hughes is thinking, nobody has said that they do - only YOU have suggested that they do know but people are surely allowed to SPECULATE based on the performances that they are seeing aren't they? As for replacing one central midfielder with another midfielder and seeing it as square peg in a round hole it was YOU who suggested that was the case in the first place - when I suggested Hughes might play Wilson there.
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