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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 5:54:16 GMT
Frightening to see that some fans want to drop the only player who did anything for us against Sunderland... and for a guy who has done the square root of fuck all to justify starting. Enter the fanboy brigade. Adam deserves it. Ireland and Sidwell would be me last resort due to defensive and offensive ability. Id go with Adam, Muniesa and Cameron before those two id hold them for CAM positions to use thier quick passing ability with Crouch or the wingers like we did at Swansea away last year. Hughesy remembers.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 17, 2014 7:56:02 GMT
Our only midfield goalscorer in 6 years Whitehead and delap got goals home and away... has it been 6 years since he and delap left? I forgot what its like for a cdm to get a goal. Atleast we have Adam. Drinkwater glenn, al I says... Whitehead and delap scored goals?
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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 17, 2014 10:23:13 GMT
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 11:45:38 GMT
Whitehead and delap got goals home and away... has it been 6 years since he and delap left? I forgot what its like for a cdm to get a goal. Atleast we have Adam. Drinkwater glenn, al I says... Whitehead and delap scored goals? Ohh yea, actually more than glenn I think in the prem. 16 funnily to Glenn's 5. Delap has 8 and In less time.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 17, 2014 12:01:08 GMT
Whitehead and delap scored goals? Ohh yea, actually more than glenn I think in the prem. 16 funnily to Glenn's 5. Delap has 8 and In less time. Looking at your contribution to both this thread and the Whelan thread, I think you need to lie down and get some rest
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 12:05:10 GMT
Ohh yea, actually more than glenn I think in the prem. 16 funnily to Glenn's 5. Delap has 8 and In less time. Looking at your contribution to both this thread and the Whelan thread, I think you need to lie down and get some rest Like Glenn? Perhaps well see a real CDM display this Saturday, maybe even a defensive showing and a bloody cross or assist and fuck me a goal from Nzonzi, sidwell or Geoff whomever so we can lay the proverbial 'CDM don't have to do shit at stoke' lie to rest.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 12:17:34 GMT
Looking at your contribution to both this thread and the Whelan thread, I think you need to lie down and get some rest Like Glenn? Perhaps well see a real CDM display this Saturday, maybe even a defensive showing and a bloody cross or assist and fuck me a goal from Nzonzi, sidwell or Geoff whomever so we can lay the proverbial 'CDM don't have to do shit at stoke' lie to rest. You do realise that isn't really what they are on the pitch to do? It's like expecting Pieters to score more goals because Muniesa got two at Sunderland. In our system (4231) the 2 are expected to sit deep with at least one being told to virtually never cross the half way line to guard against a counter attack. Under previous regimes we actually had two midfielders who never crossed the half way line at all due to the formation we deployed. To judge a defensive midfielder solely by the name of the position he plays doesn't tell the whole story. It depends on the system utilised and how good the team he plays for actually are (some don't end up doing much defending due to the possession their sides retain).
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 12:26:28 GMT
Like Glenn? Perhaps well see a real CDM display this Saturday, maybe even a defensive showing and a bloody cross or assist and fuck me a goal from Nzonzi, sidwell or Geoff whomever so we can lay the proverbial 'CDM don't have to do shit at stoke' lie to rest. You do realise that isn't really what they are on the pitch to do? It's like expecting Pieters to score more goals because Muniesa got two at Sunderland. In our system (4231) the 2 are expected to sit deep with at least one being told to virtually never cross the half way line to guard against a counter attack. Under previous regimes we actually had two midfielders who never crossed the half way line at all due to the formation we deployed. To judge a defensive midfielder solely by the name of the position he plays doesn't tell the whole story. It depends on the system utilised and how good the team he plays for actually are (some don't end up doing much defending due to the possession their sides retain). Fuck your system. What has it done for us this season? Shite, besides parking the bus at Man city. Please. Muni got two by being adventurous to the detriment of the manager at Sunderland but hughes chose to start him because of his attacking display. When your' "system" still has two midfielders rarely crossing midfield i.e. Nzonzi and Whelan, both of which couldn't shoot or one-two with a winger on the move to save their lives we arrive at a stokes slow buildup and ugly and dysfunctional attempt at trying to break down defenses. I does tell a story, it says, they aren't getting forward and pressing their midfield players. Every side versus whelan and nzonzi have glogged the middle knowing they are not capable of taking on a man and getting behind their press. Leicester showed our weakness in a master class using a rotating tandem in the middle. Both of whom can get near the box to pass and move and ultimately shoot.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 12:33:35 GMT
You do realise that isn't really what they are on the pitch to do? It's like expecting Pieters to score more goals because Muniesa got two at Sunderland. In our system (4231) the 2 are expected to sit deep with at least one being told to virtually never cross the half way line to guard against a counter attack. Under previous regimes we actually had two midfielders who never crossed the half way line at all due to the formation we deployed. To judge a defensive midfielder solely by the name of the position he plays doesn't tell the whole story. It depends on the system utilised and how good the team he plays for actually are (some don't end up doing much defending due to the possession their sides retain). Fuck your system. What has it done for us this season? Shite, besides parking the bus at Man city. Please. Muni got two by being adventurous to the detriment of the manager at Sunderland but hughes chose to start him because of his attacking display. When your' "system" still has two midfielders rarely crossing midfield i.e. Nzonzi and Whelan, both of which couldn't shoot or one-two with a winger on the move to save their lives we arrive at a stokes slow buildup and ugly and dysfunctional attempt at trying to break down defenses. I does tell a story, it says, they aren't getting forward and pressing their midfield players. Every side versus whelan and nzonzi have glogged the middle knowing they are not capable of taking on a man and getting behind their press. Leicester showed our weakness in a master class using a rotating tandem in the middle. Both of whom can get near the box to pass and move and ultimately shoot. "Fuck your system". Nice. Where were you last season with your views on this shit system of play?
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 12:35:27 GMT
Fuck your system. What has it done for us this season? Shite, besides parking the bus at Man city. Please. Muni got two by being adventurous to the detriment of the manager at Sunderland but hughes chose to start him because of his attacking display. When your' "system" still has two midfielders rarely crossing midfield i.e. Nzonzi and Whelan, both of which couldn't shoot or one-two with a winger on the move to save their lives we arrive at a stokes slow buildup and ugly and dysfunctional attempt at trying to break down defenses. I does tell a story, it says, they aren't getting forward and pressing their midfield players. Every side versus whelan and nzonzi have glogged the middle knowing they are not capable of taking on a man and getting behind their press. Leicester showed our weakness in a master class using a rotating tandem in the middle. Both of whom can get near the box to pass and move and ultimately shoot. "Fuck your system". Nice. Where were you last season with your views on this shit system of play? I thought it was shit then, and still do. It relies on a cdm being on his game 100% and constant movement from everyone to come to the ball or move to get open, none of which we've had at all this season.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 12:36:51 GMT
"Fuck your system". Nice. Where were you last season with your views on this shit system of play? I thought it was shit then, and still do. It relies on a cdm being on his game 100% and constant movement from everyone to come to the ball or move to get open, none of which we've had at all this season. So the football we played, our points total and our highest finish was in spite of a shit system? Wow, I say get you in charge and we'll be winning the league in no time.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 12:42:10 GMT
I thought it was shit then, and still do. It relies on a cdm being on his game 100% and constant movement from everyone to come to the ball or move to get open, none of which we've had at all this season. So the football we played, our points total and our highest finish was in spite of a shit system? Wow, I say get you in charge and we'll be winning the league in no time. No it wasn't this same system, your forgetting. It was because we had overlapping fullbacks in Cameron and Pieters on the counter attack who became extra midfielders and spread defenses' wide by running past or behind Arnie on the left and Odemwingie on the right. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-2-1. Since we've had Bardsley in the side on the right we've had fewer breaks down the right and even fewer crosses per game. FACT. I said this would happen nobody listened. We've become more defensive and strictly looking for counters instead of being unpredictable were extremely predictable to recently promoted sides. Couldn't Imagine what the top 5 have in store after watching our tape so far this season.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 12:44:29 GMT
So the football we played, our points total and our highest finish was in spite of a shit system? Wow, I say get you in charge and we'll be winning the league in no time. No it wasn't this same system, your forgetting. It was because we had overlapping fullbacks in Cameron and Pieters on the counter attack who became extra midfielders and spread defenses' wide by running past or behind Arnie on the left and Odemwingie on the right. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-2-1. Since we've had Bardsley in the side on the right we've had fewer breaks down the right and even fewer crosses per game. FACT. I said this would happen nobody listened. We've become more defensive and strictly looking for counters instead of being unpredictable were extremely predictable to recently promoted sides. Couldn't Imagine what the top 5 have in store after watching our tape so far this season. You do realise that Cameron was probably our worst player during our best spell of form?
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 12:50:45 GMT
No it wasn't this same system, your forgetting. It was because we had overlapping fullbacks in Cameron and Pieters on the counter attack who became extra midfielders and spread defenses' wide by running past or behind Arnie on the left and Odemwingie on the right. We went from a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-2-1. Since we've had Bardsley in the side on the right we've had fewer breaks down the right and even fewer crosses per game. FACT. I said this would happen nobody listened. We've become more defensive and strictly looking for counters instead of being unpredictable were extremely predictable to recently promoted sides. Couldn't Imagine what the top 5 have in store after watching our tape so far this season. You do realise that Cameron was probably our worst player during our best spell of form? He still provided a quick outlet from the back to the front, something we vitally miss this season. Early last Season he was arguably in his best form. He at times was our only means of attack down the right with a feckless walters and slow midfield. He wasn't wanted last window for his defensive qualities but his acceleration and charging down the line which was noticed by many sides and he was able to get by players with ease to get crosses in and even weird side footed ones a few times a half which drove me mental. We've really missed the distribution from the back. Yes were more solid but were 2x slower. I've timed us last season at this point and this current season with the ball at feet going forward and I'll tell you we are considerably slower almost 5 secs slower and we seem to look for tippy tappy passes inside instead of through passes or lobs on the edge. We think were barca with players who don't take it forward in the middle with their feet when opportunity presents itself. Cue our savior Adam a hard charger.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 13:13:40 GMT
You do realise that Cameron was probably our worst player during our best spell of form? He still provided a quick outlet from the back to the front, something we vitally miss this season. Early last Season he was arguably in his best form. He at times was our only means of attack down the right with a feckless walters and slow midfield. He wasn't wanted last window for his defensive qualities but his acceleration and charging down the line which was noticed by many sides and he was able to get by players with ease to get crosses in and even weird side footed ones a few times a half which drove me mental. We've really missed the distribution from the back. Yes were more solid but were 2x slower. I've timed us last season at this point and this current season with the ball at feet going forward and I'll tell you we are considerably slower almost 5 secs slower and we seem to look for tippy tappy passes inside instead of through passes or lobs on the edge. We think were barca with players who don't take it forward in the middle with their feet when opportunity presents itself. Cue our savior Adam a hard charger. I'm always going to struggle agreeing with you to be fair as I don't rate Cameron that highly. I think he's not great at full back and his crossing was often very poor. His performances in a winning team were generally woeful after Christmas last season.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 17, 2014 13:19:32 GMT
He still provided a quick outlet from the back to the front, something we vitally miss this season. Early last Season he was arguably in his best form. He at times was our only means of attack down the right with a feckless walters and slow midfield. He wasn't wanted last window for his defensive qualities but his acceleration and charging down the line which was noticed by many sides and he was able to get by players with ease to get crosses in and even weird side footed ones a few times a half which drove me mental. We've really missed the distribution from the back. Yes were more solid but were 2x slower. I've timed us last season at this point and this current season with the ball at feet going forward and I'll tell you we are considerably slower almost 5 secs slower and we seem to look for tippy tappy passes inside instead of through passes or lobs on the edge. We think were barca with players who don't take it forward in the middle with their feet when opportunity presents itself. Cue our savior Adam a hard charger. I'm always going to struggle agreeing with you to be fair as I don't rate Cameron that highly. I think he's not great at full back and his crossing was often very poor. His performances in a winning team were generally woeful after Christmas last season. Yet again, your forgetting man utd away, swansea away and many great performances he had. It comes to mind that from Sept to the week before the break he was one of our most in form players... he certainly dropped off it is a fact. But he ended the season with a similar opta score with bardsley who started week in week out. But to be honest, he really was a RWB at stoke and was terrible at defending statically but on the move he had more interceptions and first time tackles than anyone halfway through the season. When Mr. Neville noted said players improvement it tends to be noted and that Jan window we had received a few offers for Geoff that's the truth.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 13:42:06 GMT
I'm always going to struggle agreeing with you to be fair as I don't rate Cameron that highly. I think he's not great at full back and his crossing was often very poor. His performances in a winning team were generally woeful after Christmas last season. Yet again, your forgetting man utd away, swansea away and many great performances he had. It comes to mind that from Sept to the week before the break he was one of our most in form players... he certainly dropped off it is a fact. But he ended the season with a similar opta score with bardsley who started week in week out. But to be honest, he really was a RWB at stoke and was terrible at defending statically but on the move he had more interceptions and first time tackles than anyone halfway through the season. When Mr. Neville noted said players improvement it tends to be noted and that Jan window we had received a few offers for Geoff that's the truth. I'm not forgetting any performances. He was possibly our best player when we were wank but our worst when we were excellent. Villa away summed it up (despite him scoring) where the team were brilliant and he was dreadful. I prefer Bardsley as he's a proper full back. That's not a dig at Geoff because he isn't a full back.
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Post by mccfred on Oct 17, 2014 13:56:15 GMT
Looks like Huth will be out, a calf issue, and maybe Whelan. (For Hughes press conference)
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 14:10:39 GMT
You do realise that isn't really what they are on the pitch to do? It's like expecting Pieters to score more goals because Muniesa got two at Sunderland. In our system (4231) the 2 are expected to sit deep with at least one being told to virtually never cross the half way line to guard against a counter attack. Under previous regimes we actually had two midfielders who never crossed the half way line at all due to the formation we deployed. To judge a defensive midfielder solely by the name of the position he plays doesn't tell the whole story. It depends on the system utilised and how good the team he plays for actually are (some don't end up doing much defending due to the possession their sides retain). Fuck your system. What has it done for us this season? Shite, besides parking the bus at Man city. Please. Muni got two by being adventurous to the detriment of the manager at Sunderland but hughes chose to start him because of his attacking display. When your' "system" still has two midfielders rarely crossing midfield i.e. Nzonzi and Whelan, both of which couldn't shoot or one-two with a winger on the move to save their lives we arrive at a stokes slow buildup and ugly and dysfunctional attempt at trying to break down defenses. I does tell a story, it says, they aren't getting forward and pressing their midfield players. Every side versus whelan and nzonzi have glogged the middle knowing they are not capable of taking on a man and getting behind their press. Leicester showed our weakness in a master class using a rotating tandem in the middle. Both of whom can get near the box to pass and move and ultimately shoot. Got us 9th last season........... And there's a looooooong way to go in this season.
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 14:15:07 GMT
I really don't have a clue how this one will pan out. Swansea had a great start to the season, but have faltered a little recently.
They've got bags of pace in Routledge and Dyer, a top striker in Bony and Sigurdsson is class as he proved in the week against Holland.
Think we'll need to be at our best to win this one.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 17, 2014 14:18:26 GMT
Fuck your system. What has it done for us this season? Shite, besides parking the bus at Man city. Please. Muni got two by being adventurous to the detriment of the manager at Sunderland but hughes chose to start him because of his attacking display. When your' "system" still has two midfielders rarely crossing midfield i.e. Nzonzi and Whelan, both of which couldn't shoot or one-two with a winger on the move to save their lives we arrive at a stokes slow buildup and ugly and dysfunctional attempt at trying to break down defenses. I does tell a story, it says, they aren't getting forward and pressing their midfield players. Every side versus whelan and nzonzi have glogged the middle knowing they are not capable of taking on a man and getting behind their press. Leicester showed our weakness in a master class using a rotating tandem in the middle. Both of whom can get near the box to pass and move and ultimately shoot. Got us 9th last season........... And there's a looooooong way to go in this season. Yeah but that was because of Cameron.....
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 14:21:53 GMT
Got us 9th last season........... And there's a looooooong way to go in this season. Yeah but that was because of Cameron..... And N'Zonzi not being able to take a player on, what has he been watching haha, well if Cameron gets his chance on Sunday I'll be expecting nothing less than a hat trick and an easy three points.
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Post by superstokiejon on Oct 17, 2014 14:24:10 GMT
Cameron plays? We win 5-0
Cameron doesn't play? We lose 2-0.
Your decision Sparky.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 15:01:38 GMT
Didn't really see a lot of people mention the amount of fouls on Adam that most referees would have given against Sunderland.
I gave up watching when he was cleaned out by O' Shea on the edge of the area for what felt like the 20th time without a free kick being awarded.
Sometimes it's the constant run of little decisions going against you that play the biggest part in games.
Adam was pure class last game and dropping him would be madness, especially with our lack of goals recently.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 15:08:17 GMT
Didn't really see a lot of people mention the amount of fouls on Adam that most referees would have given against Sunderland. I gave up watching when he was cleaned out by O' Shea on the edge of the area for what felt like the 20th time without a free kick being awarded. Sometimes it's the constant run of little decisions going against you that play the biggest part in games. Adam was pure class last game and dropping him would be madness, especially with our lack of goals recently. Adam very rarely gets fouled, but what he does do, is run out of ideas and throws him self to the floor whenever someone gets close, it happens way to often, he needs to stop doing it and look for options, pure class is going way to far, he was the best of a bad bunch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 15:12:07 GMT
Didn't really see a lot of people mention the amount of fouls on Adam that most referees would have given against Sunderland. I gave up watching when he was cleaned out by O' Shea on the edge of the area for what felt like the 20th time without a free kick being awarded. Sometimes it's the constant run of little decisions going against you that play the biggest part in games. Adam was pure class last game and dropping him would be madness, especially with our lack of goals recently. Adam very rarely gets fouled, but what he does do, is run out of ideas and throws him self to the floor whenever someone gets close, it happens way to often, he needs to stop doing it and look for options, pure class is going way to far, he was the best of a bad bunch. I'm talking about one game in particular. And I honestly think if there was a decent referee last week we would have got something before their 3rd goal. If you didn't see it that way then fair enough, but I'd be very surprised if Hughes was thinking Bojan or Ireland should have his place this weekend.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 17, 2014 15:15:29 GMT
Adam very rarely gets fouled, but what he does do, is run out of ideas and throws him self to the floor whenever someone gets close, it happens way to often, he needs to stop doing it and look for options, pure class is going way to far, he was the best of a bad bunch. I'm talking about one game in particular.
And I honestly think if there was a decent referee last week we would have got something before their 3rd goal. If you didn't see it that way then fair enough, but I'd be very surprised if Hughes was thinking Bojan or Ireland should have his place this weekend. So was I, but he does it every game. The ref was far from the problem, we got done, we were awful all over the place, we deserved what we got. I agree I don't think Hughes will drop him, personally I'd rather Ireland starts as I think the team score more when he does, much better at seeing runs, passing etc but Adam is one of our main goal threats so far this season so can't really complain about it.
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Post by nott1 on Oct 17, 2014 16:47:36 GMT
Looks like Huth will be out, a calf issue, and maybe Whelan. (For Hughes press conference) I reckon Sidwell will be in for Whelan.
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Post by Billybigbollox on Oct 17, 2014 17:50:10 GMT
Michael Oliver the shite ref for this one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 18:49:58 GMT
You do realise that isn't really what they are on the pitch to do? It's like expecting Pieters to score more goals because Muniesa got two at Sunderland. In our system (4231) the 2 are expected to sit deep with at least one being told to virtually never cross the half way line to guard against a counter attack. Under previous regimes we actually had two midfielders who never crossed the half way line at all due to the formation we deployed. To judge a defensive midfielder solely by the name of the position he plays doesn't tell the whole story. It depends on the system utilised and how good the team he plays for actually are (some don't end up doing much defending due to the possession their sides retain). Fuck your system. What has it done for us this season? Shite, besides parking the bus at Man city. Please. Muni got two by being adventurous to the detriment of the manager at Sunderland but hughes chose to start him because of his attacking display. When your' "system" still has two midfielders rarely crossing midfield i.e. Nzonzi and Whelan, both of which couldn't shoot or one-two with a winger on the move to save their lives we arrive at a stokes slow buildup and ugly and dysfunctional attempt at trying to break down defenses. I does tell a story, it says, they aren't getting forward and pressing their midfield players. Every side versus whelan and nzonzi have glogged the middle knowing they are not capable of taking on a man and getting behind their press. Leicester showed our weakness in a master class using a rotating tandem in the middle. Both of whom can get near the box to pass and move and ultimately shoot. "parking the bus " at man city are you for real? have you ever been to a game? stick to rounders yoof
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