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Post by borat on Sept 30, 2014 7:06:21 GMT
He can't get in the side because we do well when he doesn't start for some reason! Like someone said he's had 2 starts and we lost both. The other 4 games he didn't start we are unbeaten! I think he's a real talent BUT he gets knocked off the ball so easy and I'm not sure he has the pace deal with our counter attack style.
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Post by stokiet90 on Sept 30, 2014 7:10:02 GMT
Crouch won countless flick ons tonight but didn't have that second striker around him to read the balls. I'd like to think Bojan could be that second striker who makes runs in and around him. I agree with this, the amount of times crouch won a flick on or held the ball up and had to go backwards because he had no support was stupid! I think bojan straight up top with crouch would suit them both well. How often do have you seen the big man little man partnership work? It's worth a try surely.
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Post by thestatusquo on Sept 30, 2014 10:29:31 GMT
Not sure about him at all. I've seen him in 3 games and he hasn't impressed. there were some nice touches but nothing incisive. At the moment we have players that are better playing in that position. I do have concerns he won't make it.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 30, 2014 10:36:01 GMT
I think he'll be this seasons Arnautovic, slow up until Christmas and then instrumental in our results after.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 30, 2014 10:50:23 GMT
To be fair, against Hull he put in that excellent cross which ultimately resulted in our equalizer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 11:23:33 GMT
Keep him here, and let him break into the team gradually. Sending players off to Barnsley has never worked out that well for us, and sending Bojan further down the footballing food-chain will do nothing for his confidence, which I suspect is his biggest problem. He doesn't look a million miles off being a decent player for us. Make him feel wanted here, in the Premier League, and I think we'll stand a better chance of reaping the benefits. Thing is we're not talking about Brek Shea here. We've got a player on our books who is potentially one of our best ever players, but who is quite rightly behind Ireland, Diouf and Adam in the pecking order, because he's shown he doesn't yet know how to unlock teams like Hull, Leicester and Villa. If he's as good as we all hope he will be, he'd go to a Championship club and figure out how to make his brilliant talent count against the donkeys that try to kick him out of the game. Then he can come back and put that into practice against teams like Hull, Leicester and Villa, and probably the bigger clubs too. Of course if he goes on loan and can't flourish in the Championship, then the English game probably isn't for him anyway. But he's a long-term project, and six months in the muck and nettles could be just what he needs to get going. The fact is that neither of us know the guy's mentality, so we can only guess as to what the likely best option is for him. I'm sure there are players that would flourish and develop quicker by dropping down to get kicked etc, and there will be players that won't get anything out of it. Pure gut feeling tells me Bojan falls into the latter category, but he and Hughes will be the better judges of that, so we'll have to see what happens. I just think that he needs to settle in his new surroundings. Look how long it took before we started to see the real Arnie. There's also the fact that the great minds of the Oatcake message boards, and apparently the club's management team have been struggling to find a place for him in our system. This is something that needs to be worked on at our training ground, not Barnsley's.
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Post by Pedropotter on Sept 30, 2014 11:25:14 GMT
I think he'll be this seasons Arnautovic, slow up until Christmas and then instrumental in our results after. Lets hope you are right. I think if we had scored a second last night we would have seen him. He needs bedding in but not at the expense of points.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 30, 2014 11:59:00 GMT
Well how are we going to replace Diouf anyway?
We're going to need to be able to replace his goal threat - would Arnie or Assaidi provide that threat as a like for like replacement playing 4-2-3-1?
I'd be seriously tempted to have a look at 4-4-2 in training this week, the work rate of Moses and Arnie on the flanks could make up for the lack of a third man in midfield.
Begovic Bardsley Ryan Wilson Muniesa Arnie N'Zonzi Whelan Moses Crouch Bojan
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Sept 30, 2014 12:04:47 GMT
Well how are we going to replace Diouf anyway?
We're going to need to be able to replace his goal threat - would Arnie or Assaidi provide that threat as a like for like replacement playing 4-2-3-1?
I'd be seriously tempted to have a look at 4-4-2 in training this week, the work rate of Moses and Arnie on the flanks could make up for the lack of a third man in midfield.
Begovic Bardsley Ryan Wilson Muniesa Arnie N'Zonzi Whelan Moses Crouch Bojan
Its a tricky one Paul. You always see Diouf /Crouch play pretty close together. Arnie nor Moses will play that close to him. I think he will play Ireland in behind with Moses/Arnie out wide.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 30, 2014 12:09:02 GMT
Well how are we going to replace Diouf anyway?
We're going to need to be able to replace his goal threat - would Arnie or Assaidi provide that threat as a like for like replacement playing 4-2-3-1?
I'd be seriously tempted to have a look at 4-4-2 in training this week, the work rate of Moses and Arnie on the flanks could make up for the lack of a third man in midfield.
Begovic Bardsley Ryan Wilson Muniesa Arnie N'Zonzi Whelan Moses Crouch Bojan
Its a tricky one Paul. You always see Diouf /Crouch play pretty close together. Arnie nor Moses will play that close to him. I think he will play Ireland in behind with Moses/Arnie out wide.
Yeah I think he will too but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do because ...
1.) You haven't replaced Diouf's goal threat, and
2.) (As you say) Crouch will no longer have a player playing close to him.
I think the two points above outweigh what Ireland brings to the table.
If Diouf was fit, I'd be completely happy with Ireland starting in a 4-2-3-1 though.
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Post by nicethrow on Sept 30, 2014 12:13:41 GMT
Ireland is 1 of our best players!
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 30, 2014 12:24:24 GMT
He offers more than the Ireland surely? they have completely different roles. bojan doesn't do teh link up play which Ireland does. He's a false number 9, as i have commented 'ad nauseam' on another thread i had started. So for him to play we either have to change our system to accomodate a false no. 9, which we won't, or else we will have to play him in a role which is not his natural role
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Post by lordb on Sept 30, 2014 12:26:20 GMT
442!
thought that had been banned?
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Sept 30, 2014 12:35:07 GMT
Its a tricky one Paul. You always see Diouf /Crouch play pretty close together. Arnie nor Moses will play that close to him. I think he will play Ireland in behind with Moses/Arnie out wide.
Yeah I think he will too but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do because ...
1.) You haven't replaced Diouf's goal threat, and
2.) (As you say) Crouch will no longer have a player playing close to him.
I think the two points above outweigh what Ireland brings to the table.
If Diouf was fit, I'd be completely happy with Ireland starting in a 4-2-3-1 though.
Who would be your front 3 if Diouf is fit? I agree id like to see 4-4-2. I think both Arnie/Moses would have alot of pressure on them though. I dont see Assaidi starting.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 30, 2014 12:45:49 GMT
Yeah I think he will too but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do because ...
1.) You haven't replaced Diouf's goal threat, and
2.) (As you say) Crouch will no longer have a player playing close to him.
I think the two points above outweigh what Ireland brings to the table.
If Diouf was fit, I'd be completely happy with Ireland starting in a 4-2-3-1 though.
Who would be your front 3 if Diouf is fit? I agree id like to see 4-4-2. I think both Arnie/Moses would have alot of pressure on them though. I dont see Assaidi starting. Diouf, Crouch and Moses mate.
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Post by foster on Sept 30, 2014 12:50:55 GMT
Is Diouf injured or is he okay?... Could give Bojan a chance.
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Post by onionman on Sept 30, 2014 14:08:10 GMT
Thing is we're not talking about Brek Shea here. We've got a player on our books who is potentially one of our best ever players, but who is quite rightly behind Ireland, Diouf and Adam in the pecking order, because he's shown he doesn't yet know how to unlock teams like Hull, Leicester and Villa. If he's as good as we all hope he will be, he'd go to a Championship club and figure out how to make his brilliant talent count against the donkeys that try to kick him out of the game. Then he can come back and put that into practice against teams like Hull, Leicester and Villa, and probably the bigger clubs too. Of course if he goes on loan and can't flourish in the Championship, then the English game probably isn't for him anyway. But he's a long-term project, and six months in the muck and nettles could be just what he needs to get going. The fact is that neither of us know the guy's mentality, so we can only guess as to what the likely best option is for him. I'm sure there are players that would flourish and develop quicker by dropping down to get kicked etc, and there will be players that won't get anything out of it. Pure gut feeling tells me Bojan falls into the latter category, but he and Hughes will be the better judges of that, so we'll have to see what happens. I just think that he needs to settle in his new surroundings. Look how long it took before we started to see the real Arnie. There's also the fact that the great minds of the Oatcake message boards, and apparently the club's management team have been struggling to find a place for him in our system. This is something that needs to be worked on at our training ground, not Barnsley's. All good points. For me, the problem isn't so much that we haven't found a position for him in our system, it's more that he hasn't known what to do when faced with a wall of agricultural defenders. That problem will surface and resurface no matter what position he plays, and no matter what system we use. He can either work on that on the training field, or in games at a slightly lower level, while we continue for the time being with Ireland/Adam/Diouf. I'd go for the latter option, bearing in mind we've got Bojan for four years, he's only young, and he's a long-term project. But as you say, it's guesswork.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Sept 30, 2014 14:19:13 GMT
Thing is we're not talking about Brek Shea here. We've got a player on our books who is potentially one of our best ever players, but who is quite rightly behind Ireland, Diouf and Adam in the pecking order, because he's shown he doesn't yet know how to unlock teams like Hull, Leicester and Villa. If he's as good as we all hope he will be, he'd go to a Championship club and figure out how to make his brilliant talent count against the donkeys that try to kick him out of the game. Then he can come back and put that into practice against teams like Hull, Leicester and Villa, and probably the bigger clubs too. Of course if he goes on loan and can't flourish in the Championship, then the English game probably isn't for him anyway. But he's a long-term project, and six months in the muck and nettles could be just what he needs to get going. The fact is that neither of us know the guy's mentality, so we can only guess as to what the likely best option is for him. I'm sure there are players that would flourish and develop quicker by dropping down to get kicked etc, and there will be players that won't get anything out of it. Pure gut feeling tells me Bojan falls into the latter category, but he and Hughes will be the better judges of that, so we'll have to see what happens. I just think that he needs to settle in his new surroundings. Look how long it took before we started to see the real Arnie. There's also the fact that the great minds of the Oatcake message boards, and apparently the club's management team have been struggling to find a place for him in our system. This is something that needs to be worked on at our training ground, not Barnsley's. Agree with that. I don't see the sense in loaning him out. The lad has struggled to fit in at Roma, Milan and Ajax in recent years with perhaps the weight of expectation being an issue. For me its better he becomes a bit of a forgotten man for a period while he gets up to speed. We're lucky that Diouf, Crouch and Moses have looked okay so far with Arnie putting in a decent performance last night and Ireland now back from injury that we don't need to throw the lad in at the deep end. I think it might also help matters if we get ourselves onto a decent run where we might be able to bring him on as a late sub.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 30, 2014 14:20:51 GMT
A mate I go the game with said a short loan would be good for him, help him get used to english football, must say I agree, find a team that play a similar way in the Championship and give him some game time. Can you give some examples of where sending young players out on loan as proven to be successful. Marshall? Shea? Arismendi ? The young Belgium kid? Any of those that have come through our youth ranks? Did Shotton gain that much to warrant the continuation of such a cunning development plan? So because those particular players turn out not to be good enough means no young player would benefit from going on loan, what rubbish, Beckham went on loan btw, he turned out really shit.
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Post by onionman on Sept 30, 2014 14:23:49 GMT
Can you give some examples of where sending young players out on loan as proven to be successful. Marshall? Shea? Arismendi ? The young Belgium kid? Any of those that have come through our youth ranks? Did Shotton gain that much to warrant the continuation of such a cunning development plan? So because those particular players turn out not to be good enough means no young player would benefit from going on loan, what rubbish, Beckham went on loan btw, he turned out really shit. Jermain Defoe is the example I'm thinking of. That spell at Bournemouth was the making of him. But you're right about Beckham, who had to wash his own kit at Preston and returned a much more rounded player.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 30, 2014 14:44:23 GMT
I didn't expect to see much first string action for Bojan until after xmas any way. As has been posted, a front two partnership with Crouch {as a sub or in a Cup match} would be interesting. From what I've seen of him on the pitch so far his movement reminds me of a young Michael Owen. But looks can be deceiving I suppose.
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 30, 2014 14:58:33 GMT
Well how are we going to replace Diouf anyway?
We're going to need to be able to replace his goal threat - would Arnie or Assaidi provide that threat as a like for like replacement playing 4-2-3-1?
I'd be seriously tempted to have a look at 4-4-2 in training this week, the work rate of Moses and Arnie on the flanks could make up for the lack of a third man in midfield.
Begovic Bardsley Ryan Wilson Muniesa Arnie N'Zonzi Whelan Moses Crouch Bojan
That's an interesting adjustment to our system, Paul. As you say, neither Ireland nor Adam would get close to Crouch from the number 10 spot and Arnie would not get as close to Crouch as Diouf does from wide right, so the big man could risk isolation up front. He works best with bodies around him to lay the ball off to or to run on to his flick ons. Maybe Bojan is the answer as a more attacking number 10, more of a second striker. It would risk us being lighter in numbers in central midfield, and SNZ may have to "stay at home" more than he often does now, to not risk leaving Glenn overrun behind him. I see it more of a home option than away and reckon Hughes will be a bit more conservative on our travels, with Ireland back to play in front of the usual middle two. He links play better and faster than Charlie and is not breathing out of his arse after 20 minutes.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Sept 30, 2014 15:22:02 GMT
Wasn't it Hughes himself who was saying that to realise his potential, Bojan has to be played in his natural position, as a striker. However he is no target man, so at some point surely we are going to have to change the system. If not I don't see how we can accommodate Bojan in a starting eleven.
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