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Post by salopstick on Oct 15, 2014 20:57:38 GMT
How much social/council housing did brown and Blair build in the boom years Why mention that? Instantly defensive, assuming i'm some kind of Labour man just having a dig at the tories per chance? Like that justifies anything. Get a grip Salop. I don't really care for who you vote for but the point is valid when you argue against a thatcher policy that enabled people to buy cheap council houses. A policy that was with flaws and the money made should have been reinvested back into housing. No government had including a 13 year labour administration that (inc it's supporters) are quick to condemn
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 15, 2014 21:34:46 GMT
Hmmm, unless it was a robot what wrote the report, it's always what the author thinks Usually, however, there's a sizeable difference between reliably gathered evidenced reporting and, say, what Jesse Ventura might reckon, or some bloke thinking his limited personal experience and understanding is enough to form a reliable conclusion on something as a whole. There's plenty of reliable, independent research out there which shows that the gains made in health care quality and range under the last government are starting to be lost under this one. The Nuffield Trust, Health Foundation, Quality Watch, all independent and just three places to start if you want to see whether Labour improved the Health Service or not... Or you could just be daft and point to Stafford as a demonstration that the whole thing was one big waste of money and didn't improve overall at all. A bit like saying just cos Brek Shea is a bit shit, the whole team is equally shit. Such a shame that some folk think that anyone referencing the reports of others is a fool, but then if avoiding independent evidence is your thing, I guess that's the way to think. Except it wasn't quite like that as you well know, the report you were passing off as fact referenced a specific increase in the bang per buck or some such phrase and became a “Luke” fact until it was pointed out it was actually just an opinion. It would appear you don't always read the “reliable independent research” you present.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 15, 2014 21:44:31 GMT
That's a new one on me Maggie introduced a policy to stop the working class buying shares Lucky she never introduced a policy to stop the working class smoking, drinking or going to the football And you're having a laugh if you think the service is poorer as for higher bills try looking at Labour's green taxes and investments in new power plants, sewers etc i think you will find it was a very hard time for the working classes under maggie.if you hadnt allready lost your job[pits,steel,pots]you were constantly told by your bosses[wherever you worked]that your job was under threat.therefore having to constantly accept low wage rises in a sort of take it or fuck off way.finding the money to invest was extremely difficult. i know all about this i had first hand experience of it and i did have a celebratory drink when the evil old witch snuffed it. I take it you are now accepting the services were not poorer as you originally claimed. As for the rest Labour closed more mines than Thatcher did, the idea that having to accept low wage rises was having a tough time is staggering, it really does show a public sector working mentality. The industries you mentioned all had strong unions who used their power to force higher wage rises and oppose modernisation and in the end made their industries uncompetitive and sowed the seeds of their own destruction.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 6:45:45 GMT
dont get me started on the tories and privatasion.the wealthy did very nice out of gas,water,leccy etc oh yes even poor people could apply and some did but unfortunatly thanks to maggies policies most working class workers didnt have the cash to spare. and now we are all reaping the rewards of poorer service and higher bills.the tories look after their own allways have allways will. You got yourself started on privatisation to be fair! But, you're obviously deeply anti-conservative back from the Thatcher days and for you, nothings going to change that. The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life; that its everybody elses fault that we haven't got enough money to do anything. Rolling back a few years I thought that my work should have paid me more and I should get tax cuts or some help paying my bills and mortgage as I was a single homeowner working 45 hours a week without overtime (thanks to 2008/09 resulting in the company reducing its workforce by 20% but still expecting the same amount of work to be done) who came from an incredibly modest background. I lived month to month and if I lost my job, I'd have had nothing to fall back on...pretty much like many of the working class. Yet...I lived in a two bedroom house as a single owner and probably paid an extra £100 for it; I bought a newer car because I wanted it instead of getting something just to run about in and had to pay £250 a month for that; I'd go to the pub every friday for lunch and two pints so that was another £40 a month; spent £100 a month in petrol driving the short distance to work and back and spending most of that time in traffic anyway which guzzled the fuel; had sky sports and sky movies so at the time probably another £35 a month; even £20 a month buying Pepsi and drinking far too much of it; another £20 a month buying new dvds and cds; £35 a month on new sofas because I wanted reclinable ones instead of the perfectly comfortable ones that I'd had before...so just all of that alone through my own actions and consequences, I was spending £500 a month that I didn't need to but the government should have give me more money. On to now though, I dont have a car, dont go for drinks during the week, live in a suitable size flat, don't have sky, dont buy carbonated drinks, still dont go to costa/starbucks everyday to feed a £800 a year coffee/latte habit. I've worked constantly in evenings and weekends learning new skills, getting a few more qualifications doing online courses. I can guarantee that whilst many people were spending their weekends going to football, going to music festivals, getting pissed etc I was studying, learning and investing in myself a little bit. I moved away from Warrington to where I can create my own opportunities and this week had a payrise (after having one in March) which was as much as I got in my first place of work over 6.5 years! I now earn as much as my mum, dad and sister put together; I'll also pay twice as much in Tax and NI contributions as them put together too; I'll pay three times as much tax just on the payrise alone than somebody on minimum wage (like my sister) will in a year. But, I'm sensible with my money, got no credit cards, my house in warrington is rented out (and because I like the couple in there, I've give them a break and reduced their rent by £50 after having the payrise which now breaks even over the year), the second room in my flat is used by my colleague during the week who contributes 35% of the rent... I've made my own opportunities and have responsibility over the money I do get. And...I've done it all under a Tory government too! Well how can that possibly happen if this government is all about punishing the working class? It's because I've taken responsibility for my own actions, own consequences and made a lot of sacrifices to put myself in a better position. How many others can genuinely say the same? Most working and middle class live from month to month as a result of their own irresponsible spending, and a bit more/less tax here and there really isn't going to make a tiny difference because people find new ways to blow the money they do get. So, carry on with the bitterness from 20 years ago if you want, but unless people are willing to take some responsibility for themselves instead of blaming everybody else for their own position and expecting others to give them more, they'll always be poor in their pocket because they are poor in their mind and their attitude. People are stuck because they do the same things over and over and over again, the same routines, make the same mistakes. I just don't buy it Trentham, at all. If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 8:10:12 GMT
Well stan I hope you are paying tax on the profit of any income from your rented house.or have you forgotten about that? Like many. There ought to be a national data base on landlords and how much rent is charged.pretty sure I am the only one who pays tax on a rented property. P.s. have you ever kissed a girl?
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Post by kbillyh on Oct 16, 2014 9:17:39 GMT
dont get me started on the tories and privatasion.the wealthy did very nice out of gas,water,leccy etc oh yes even poor people could apply and some did but unfortunatly thanks to maggies policies most working class workers didnt have the cash to spare. and now we are all reaping the rewards of poorer service and higher bills.the tories look after their own allways have allways will. You got yourself started on privatisation to be fair! But, you're obviously deeply anti-conservative back from the Thatcher days and for you, nothings going to change that. The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life; that its everybody elses fault that we haven't got enough money to do anything. Rolling back a few years I thought that my work should have paid me more and I should get tax cuts or some help paying my bills and mortgage as I was a single homeowner working 45 hours a week without overtime (thanks to 2008/09 resulting in the company reducing its workforce by 20% but still expecting the same amount of work to be done) who came from an incredibly modest background. I lived month to month and if I lost my job, I'd have had nothing to fall back on...pretty much like many of the working class. Yet...I lived in a two bedroom house as a single owner and probably paid an extra £100 for it; I bought a newer car because I wanted it instead of getting something just to run about in and had to pay £250 a month for that; I'd go to the pub every friday for lunch and two pints so that was another £40 a month; spent £100 a month in petrol driving the short distance to work and back and spending most of that time in traffic anyway which guzzled the fuel; had sky sports and sky movies so at the time probably another £35 a month; even £20 a month buying Pepsi and drinking far too much of it; another £20 a month buying new dvds and cds; £35 a month on new sofas because I wanted reclinable ones instead of the perfectly comfortable ones that I'd had before...so just all of that alone through my own actions and consequences, I was spending £500 a month that I didn't need to but the government should have give me more money. On to now though, I dont have a car, dont go for drinks during the week, live in a suitable size flat, don't have sky, dont buy carbonated drinks, still dont go to costa/starbucks everyday to feed a £800 a year coffee/latte habit. I've worked constantly in evenings and weekends learning new skills, getting a few more qualifications doing online courses. I can guarantee that whilst many people were spending their weekends going to football, going to music festivals, getting pissed etc I was studying, learning and investing in myself a little bit. I moved away from Warrington to where I can create my own opportunities and this week had a payrise (after having one in March) which was as much as I got in my first place of work over 6.5 years! I now earn as much as my mum, dad and sister put together; I'll also pay twice as much in Tax and NI contributions as them put together too; I'll pay three times as much tax just on the payrise alone than somebody on minimum wage (like my sister) will in a year. But, I'm sensible with my money, got no credit cards, my house in warrington is rented out (and because I like the couple in there, I've give them a break and reduced their rent by £50 after having the payrise which now breaks even over the year), the second room in my flat is used by my colleague during the week who contributes 35% of the rent... I've made my own opportunities and have responsibility over the money I do get. And...I've done it all under a Tory government too! Well how can that possibly happen if this government is all about punishing the working class? It's because I've taken responsibility for my own actions, own consequences and made a lot of sacrifices to put myself in a better position. How many others can genuinely say the same? Most working and middle class live from month to month as a result of their own irresponsible spending, and a bit more/less tax here and there really isn't going to make a tiny difference because people find new ways to blow the money they do get. So, carry on with the bitterness from 20 years ago if you want, but unless people are willing to take some responsibility for themselves instead of blaming everybody else for their own position and expecting others to give them more, they'll always be poor in their pocket because they are poor in their mind and their attitude. People are stuck because they do the same things over and over and over again, the same routines, make the same mistakes. I just don't buy it Trentham, at all. If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve. Spends all his spare cash on porn. Seriously though, to me it's apparent that you have a complete lack of empathy for anybody less fortunate than yourself. It is not a "fact" that "people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life". It's just an i'm all right Jack mentality, fuck the rest they must deserve it because i've done OK. Self, self, self, me, me me. You have been frugal and worked hard...... well done, i'm very happy for you that you have been fortunate enough not to have fallen on hard times and i sincerely hope that your health and earning potential never fails you to the point where your own circumstance differ because for some the safety net has been removed and through no fault of their own are only one illness or redundancy away from destitution. That's a "Fact" for you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 9:37:54 GMT
Well stan I hope you are paying tax on the profit of any income from your rented house.or have you forgotten about that? Like many. There ought to be a national data base on landlords and how much rent is charged.pretty sure I am the only one who pays tax on a rented property. P.s. have you ever kissed a girl? Just...embarrassing for you that you come down to such things. Questioning my contributions based on absolutely nothing and as for your last comment...seriously? That's the kind of level you are is it? Typical bullshit, negative, irrational and deep rooted bitterness that so many have against anybody who dares to have dared to do something for themselves; too focused on wanting to shoot other people down rather than do anything about it themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 12:07:31 GMT
You got yourself started on privatisation to be fair! But, you're obviously deeply anti-conservative back from the Thatcher days and for you, nothings going to change that. The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life; that its everybody elses fault that we haven't got enough money to do anything. Rolling back a few years I thought that my work should have paid me more and I should get tax cuts or some help paying my bills and mortgage as I was a single homeowner working 45 hours a week without overtime (thanks to 2008/09 resulting in the company reducing its workforce by 20% but still expecting the same amount of work to be done) who came from an incredibly modest background. I lived month to month and if I lost my job, I'd have had nothing to fall back on...pretty much like many of the working class. Yet...I lived in a two bedroom house as a single owner and probably paid an extra £100 for it; I bought a newer car because I wanted it instead of getting something just to run about in and had to pay £250 a month for that; I'd go to the pub every friday for lunch and two pints so that was another £40 a month; spent £100 a month in petrol driving the short distance to work and back and spending most of that time in traffic anyway which guzzled the fuel; had sky sports and sky movies so at the time probably another £35 a month; even £20 a month buying Pepsi and drinking far too much of it; another £20 a month buying new dvds and cds; £35 a month on new sofas because I wanted reclinable ones instead of the perfectly comfortable ones that I'd had before...so just all of that alone through my own actions and consequences, I was spending £500 a month that I didn't need to but the government should have give me more money. On to now though, I dont have a car, dont go for drinks during the week, live in a suitable size flat, don't have sky, dont buy carbonated drinks, still dont go to costa/starbucks everyday to feed a £800 a year coffee/latte habit. I've worked constantly in evenings and weekends learning new skills, getting a few more qualifications doing online courses. I can guarantee that whilst many people were spending their weekends going to football, going to music festivals, getting pissed etc I was studying, learning and investing in myself a little bit. I moved away from Warrington to where I can create my own opportunities and this week had a payrise (after having one in March) which was as much as I got in my first place of work over 6.5 years! I now earn as much as my mum, dad and sister put together; I'll also pay twice as much in Tax and NI contributions as them put together too; I'll pay three times as much tax just on the payrise alone than somebody on minimum wage (like my sister) will in a year. But, I'm sensible with my money, got no credit cards, my house in warrington is rented out (and because I like the couple in there, I've give them a break and reduced their rent by £50 after having the payrise which now breaks even over the year), the second room in my flat is used by my colleague during the week who contributes 35% of the rent... I've made my own opportunities and have responsibility over the money I do get. And...I've done it all under a Tory government too! Well how can that possibly happen if this government is all about punishing the working class? It's because I've taken responsibility for my own actions, own consequences and made a lot of sacrifices to put myself in a better position. How many others can genuinely say the same? Most working and middle class live from month to month as a result of their own irresponsible spending, and a bit more/less tax here and there really isn't going to make a tiny difference because people find new ways to blow the money they do get. So, carry on with the bitterness from 20 years ago if you want, but unless people are willing to take some responsibility for themselves instead of blaming everybody else for their own position and expecting others to give them more, they'll always be poor in their pocket because they are poor in their mind and their attitude. People are stuck because they do the same things over and over and over again, the same routines, make the same mistakes. I just don't buy it Trentham, at all. If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve. Spends all his spare cash on porn. Seriously though, to me it's apparent that you have a complete lack of empathy for anybody less fortunate than yourself. It is not a "fact" that "people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life". It's just an i'm all right Jack mentality, fuck the rest they must deserve it because i've done OK. Self, self, self, me, me me. You have been frugal and worked hard...... well done, i'm very happy for you that you have been fortunate enough not to have fallen on hard times and i sincerely hope that your health and earning potential never fails you to the point where your own circumstance differ because for some the safety net has been removed and through no fault of their own are only one illness or redundancy away from destitution. That's a "Fact" for you. Not at all Sir, and that's another common mistake that people make in assuming folk don't have empathy for others less fortunate than themselves. You're mistaking my condemnation of all the people who expect things just given to them. I'm fully supportive of the State ensuring those who fall on hard times through illness or redundancy - that's not what this has been about though has it? It's about them who piss what they do have against a wall without realising it and then expecting others to give them more; whilst simultaneously having a brainfart at the very mention of anybody who might be doing a bit better for themselves without any regard to how they've got there. True - I have to improve things for myself, but that's down to the fact that no other fuckers going to do it, and why should they? But, what do you expect me to do? How much more of my hard earned do you want me to give away? Or should I have stayed in the same mediocrity that I'd got myself in to? Maybe I should have to publish and make everybody aware of the work and help I provide to Young Epilepsy? Should I upload for you the direct debit I've got for them? Or the 30% one-offs I send them whenever I get £5 or £25 every so often on the lottery? Want me to show you the cheque for when I pursuaded the company directors to contribute 1% of their annual turnover last year to them in additional to their other CSR stuff they do? Want me to show you the list of letters I've already wrote to Young Epilepsy, my parents, my sister, my brother, my old housemate just on the slight off chance that I hit a fortune on it because straight away and without hesitation I'd give 50% of any jackpot away to help others, before sharing the rest with my friend at work who shares the exact same principals? Maybe you want to stand behind your own comments and tell us all what you do given you obviously care so much and feel worthy enough to criticise others? I'm very happy to make the contributions that I have to - got absolutely no concerns with that at all. Oh, you might also want me to show you how I supported my sister in the house for 18 months losing £100 just against my mortgage alone, never mind any potential profit I could have made. I'm helping the couple that are there now by giving them a break too as they're both on minimum wage working there arses off. I'm currently supporting my fiancee who has moved here from overseas who hasn't yet got a job. Come hell or high water, I'll make sure that if any of my nearest and dearest fell on hard times, that they get what they need. And I'm fully aware that everything could just go drastically wrong tomorrow. But I'd not expect anybody to give me anything. I'd pick myself up and do whatever it takes to get back again. I wouldn't want anybody's sympathy or empathy. But to me, that's the importance of making sure I build up enough solidarity myself to protect against it, just so I wouldn't have to join the queue of people needing handouts. There are tens, hundreds of millions of people all around the world who really know the meaning of destitution and desperation, who don't have anything to sacrifice in the first place, never had a safety net to protect them and have to walk miles just for access to water... and you accuse me of lacking empathy? The fact that I was born in a hospital, with qualified staff assisting with the delivery and with access to education makes me somewhat privileged - something I have never forgotten or lost sight of. Maybe if others realised the same, they'd think again before they want to tell us what hard times they have. But I'm not for one moment going to feel any shame or guilt about the fact that I still have my own life to live and my motivations come from being able to do so as comfortably as I can, with the people I want to share it with; and have to trust that the contributions (both statutory and voluntary) are being used the best they can be to support others.
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Post by kbillyh on Oct 16, 2014 13:15:20 GMT
Your words:
"The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life"
You can bang on about whatever else you want but this is simply not a "fact".
You ended it with:
"If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve."
Again in my view this is a complete nonsense but if that's what you really believe then i'm afraid you do not have the ability to understand that for some getting themselves free of their daily grind to get by is an impossibility.
Congratulations on your charity work by the way, it is to be applauded. Imagine somebody with epilepsy with no family support trying to climb out of the poverty of unemployment, benefit sanctions, low pay, high cost of living etc....................
Is this their own "fault"?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 16:45:28 GMT
Well stan I hope you are paying tax on the profit of any income from your rented house.or have you forgotten about that? Like many. There ought to be a national data base on landlords and how much rent is charged.pretty sure I am the only one who pays tax on a rented property. P.s. have you ever kissed a girl? Just...embarrassing for you that you come down to such things. Questioning my contributions based on absolutely nothing and as for your last comment...seriously? That's the kind of level you are is it? Typical bullshit, negative, irrational and deep rooted bitterness that so many have against anybody who dares to have dared to do something for themselves; too focused on wanting to shoot other people down rather than do anything about it themselves. the last comment was a joke but I doubt you have a sense of humour so wasted on you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:07:15 GMT
Hmmm, unless it was a robot what wrote the report, it's always what the author thinks Usually, however, there's a sizeable difference between reliably gathered evidenced reporting and, say, what Jesse Ventura might reckon, or some bloke thinking his limited personal experience and understanding is enough to form a reliable conclusion on something as a whole. There's plenty of reliable, independent research out there which shows that the gains made in health care quality and range under the last government are starting to be lost under this one. The Nuffield Trust, Health Foundation, Quality Watch, all independent and just three places to start if you want to see whether Labour improved the Health Service or not... Or you could just be daft and point to Stafford as a demonstration that the whole thing was one big waste of money and didn't improve overall at all. A bit like saying just cos Brek Shea is a bit shit, the whole team is equally shit. Such a shame that some folk think that anyone referencing the reports of others is a fool, but then if avoiding independent evidence is your thing, I guess that's the way to think. Except it wasn't quite like that as you well know, the report you were passing off as fact referenced a specific increase in the bang per buck or some such phrase and became a “Luke” fact until it was pointed out it was actually just an opinion. It would appear you don't always read the “reliable independent research” you present. I don't think so, but happy to see the evidence if you think otherwise, as always! Over to you...
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Post by boothenboy75 on Oct 16, 2014 18:16:05 GMT
dont get me started on the tories and privatasion.the wealthy did very nice out of gas,water,leccy etc oh yes even poor people could apply and some did but unfortunatly thanks to maggies policies most working class workers didnt have the cash to spare. and now we are all reaping the rewards of poorer service and higher bills.the tories look after their own allways have allways will. You got yourself started on privatisation to be fair! But, you're obviously deeply anti-conservative back from the Thatcher days and for you, nothings going to change that. The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life; that its everybody elses fault that we haven't got enough money to do anything. Rolling back a few years I thought that my work should have paid me more and I should get tax cuts or some help paying my bills and mortgage as I was a single homeowner working 45 hours a week without overtime (thanks to 2008/09 resulting in the company reducing its workforce by 20% but still expecting the same amount of work to be done) who came from an incredibly modest background. I lived month to month and if I lost my job, I'd have had nothing to fall back on...pretty much like many of the working class. Yet...I lived in a two bedroom house as a single owner and probably paid an extra £100 for it; I bought a newer car because I wanted it instead of getting something just to run about in and had to pay £250 a month for that; I'd go to the pub every friday for lunch and two pints so that was another £40 a month; spent £100 a month in petrol driving the short distance to work and back and spending most of that time in traffic anyway which guzzled the fuel; had sky sports and sky movies so at the time probably another £35 a month; even £20 a month buying Pepsi and drinking far too much of it; another £20 a month buying new dvds and cds; £35 a month on new sofas because I wanted reclinable ones instead of the perfectly comfortable ones that I'd had before...so just all of that alone through my own actions and consequences, I was spending £500 a month that I didn't need to but the government should have give me more money. On to now though, I dont have a car, dont go for drinks during the week, live in a suitable size flat, don't have sky, dont buy carbonated drinks, still dont go to costa/starbucks everyday to feed a £800 a year coffee/latte habit. I've worked constantly in evenings and weekends learning new skills, getting a few more qualifications doing online courses. I can guarantee that whilst many people were spending their weekends going to football, going to music festivals, getting pissed etc I was studying, learning and investing in myself a little bit. I moved away from Warrington to where I can create my own opportunities and this week had a payrise (after having one in March) which was as much as I got in my first place of work over 6.5 years! I now earn as much as my mum, dad and sister put together; I'll also pay twice as much in Tax and NI contributions as them put together too; I'll pay three times as much tax just on the payrise alone than somebody on minimum wage (like my sister) will in a year. But, I'm sensible with my money, got no credit cards, my house in warrington is rented out (and because I like the couple in there, I've give them a break and reduced their rent by £50 after having the payrise which now breaks even over the year), the second room in my flat is used by my colleague during the week who contributes 35% of the rent... I've made my own opportunities and have responsibility over the money I do get. And...I've done it all under a Tory government too! Well how can that possibly happen if this government is all about punishing the working class? It's because I've taken responsibility for my own actions, own consequences and made a lot of sacrifices to put myself in a better position. How many others can genuinely say the same? Most working and middle class live from month to month as a result of their own irresponsible spending, and a bit more/less tax here and there really isn't going to make a tiny difference because people find new ways to blow the money they do get. So, carry on with the bitterness from 20 years ago if you want, but unless people are willing to take some responsibility for themselves instead of blaming everybody else for their own position and expecting others to give them more, they'll always be poor in their pocket because they are poor in their mind and their attitude. People are stuck because they do the same things over and over and over again, the same routines, make the same mistakes. I just don't buy it Trentham, at all. If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve. Well done to you. Alas you'll find little support on here for your hard work. Jealousy will rear it's ugly head and you'll be painted as some sort of Nazi. I often wonder if this is a national thing or particularly strong in Stoke?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 19:57:58 GMT
Just...embarrassing for you that you come down to such things. Questioning my contributions based on absolutely nothing and as for your last comment...seriously? That's the kind of level you are is it? Typical bullshit, negative, irrational and deep rooted bitterness that so many have against anybody who dares to have dared to do something for themselves; too focused on wanting to shoot other people down rather than do anything about it themselves. the last comment was a joke but I doubt you have a sense of humour so wasted on you. Well when it's put in with a whole other bunch of bullshit, it's hard to distinguish!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 20:07:28 GMT
Your words: "The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life" You can bang on about whatever else you want but this is simply not a "fact". You ended it with: "If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve." Again in my view this is a complete nonsense but if that's what you really believe then i'm afraid you do not have the ability to understand that for some getting themselves free of their daily grind to get by is an impossibility. Congratulations on your charity work by the way, it is to be applauded. Imagine somebody with epilepsy with no family support trying to climb out of the poverty of unemployment, benefit sanctions, low pay, high cost of living etc.................... Is this their own "fault"? You're again mixing up those who genuinely need the support and those who don't. You still haven't told us all what it is you do to help others too given you were so quick to judge me.
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Post by kbillyh on Oct 16, 2014 20:24:00 GMT
I'm mixing nothing up mate.
Your comments however, the ones i highlighted, tar everybody with the same brush.
As for inquiring about my altruistic C.V.........Put yer cock away pal, it's a bit crass to measure up on such subjects don't you think.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 16, 2014 21:50:42 GMT
Except it wasn't quite like that as you well know, the report you were passing off as fact referenced a specific increase in the bang per buck or some such phrase and became a “Luke” fact until it was pointed out it was actually just an opinion. It would appear you don't always read the “reliable independent research” you present. I don't think so, but happy to see the evidence if you think otherwise, as always! Over to you... oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/2583027There you go you seemed to quite like the phrase "Estimates from the Office for National Statistics suggest that public services have improved considerably over the period from 1997 to 2007 with measured outputs suggesting a one third increase in the quantity and quality of public services." Never to be used again after it was pointed out it was just an opinion and not a lukey fact Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/2583027#ixzz3GLZGHo5B
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 8:51:12 GMT
dont get me started on the tories and privatasion.the wealthy did very nice out of gas,water,leccy etc oh yes even poor people could apply and some did but unfortunatly thanks to maggies policies most working class workers didnt have the cash to spare. and now we are all reaping the rewards of poorer service and higher bills.the tories look after their own allways have allways will. You got yourself started on privatisation to be fair! But, you're obviously deeply anti-conservative back from the Thatcher days and for you, nothings going to change that. The fact is, regardless of who is in charge, people are where they are now as a result of all of their actions and decisions throughout their life; that its everybody elses fault that we haven't got enough money to do anything. Rolling back a few years I thought that my work should have paid me more and I should get tax cuts or some help paying my bills and mortgage as I was a single homeowner working 45 hours a week without overtime (thanks to 2008/09 resulting in the company reducing its workforce by 20% but still expecting the same amount of work to be done) who came from an incredibly modest background. I lived month to month and if I lost my job, I'd have had nothing to fall back on...pretty much like many of the working class. Yet...I lived in a two bedroom house as a single owner and probably paid an extra £100 for it; I bought a newer car because I wanted it instead of getting something just to run about in and had to pay £250 a month for that; I'd go to the pub every friday for lunch and two pints so that was another £40 a month; spent £100 a month in petrol driving the short distance to work and back and spending most of that time in traffic anyway which guzzled the fuel; had sky sports and sky movies so at the time probably another £35 a month; even £20 a month buying Pepsi and drinking far too much of it; another £20 a month buying new dvds and cds; £35 a month on new sofas because I wanted reclinable ones instead of the perfectly comfortable ones that I'd had before...so just all of that alone through my own actions and consequences, I was spending £500 a month that I didn't need to but the government should have give me more money. On to now though, I dont have a car, dont go for drinks during the week, live in a suitable size flat, don't have sky, dont buy carbonated drinks, still dont go to costa/starbucks everyday to feed a £800 a year coffee/latte habit. I've worked constantly in evenings and weekends learning new skills, getting a few more qualifications doing online courses. I can guarantee that whilst many people were spending their weekends going to football, going to music festivals, getting pissed etc I was studying, learning and investing in myself a little bit. I moved away from Warrington to where I can create my own opportunities and this week had a payrise (after having one in March) which was as much as I got in my first place of work over 6.5 years! I now earn as much as my mum, dad and sister put together; I'll also pay twice as much in Tax and NI contributions as them put together too; I'll pay three times as much tax just on the payrise alone than somebody on minimum wage (like my sister) will in a year. But, I'm sensible with my money, got no credit cards, my house in warrington is rented out (and because I like the couple in there, I've give them a break and reduced their rent by £50 after having the payrise which now breaks even over the year), the second room in my flat is used by my colleague during the week who contributes 35% of the rent... I've made my own opportunities and have responsibility over the money I do get. And...I've done it all under a Tory government too! Well how can that possibly happen if this government is all about punishing the working class? It's because I've taken responsibility for my own actions, own consequences and made a lot of sacrifices to put myself in a better position. How many others can genuinely say the same? Most working and middle class live from month to month as a result of their own irresponsible spending, and a bit more/less tax here and there really isn't going to make a tiny difference because people find new ways to blow the money they do get. So, carry on with the bitterness from 20 years ago if you want, but unless people are willing to take some responsibility for themselves instead of blaming everybody else for their own position and expecting others to give them more, they'll always be poor in their pocket because they are poor in their mind and their attitude. People are stuck because they do the same things over and over and over again, the same routines, make the same mistakes. I just don't buy it Trentham, at all. If people want to change things for themselves, they have the ability to do so. Otherwise, I'm afraid that people tend to get what they deserve.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 9:03:05 GMT
Having read all your post again(jeez I need to get out more)it seems to me to be a little bit fantasy. Your struggle to rise to the top? It would seem that you just walk into a new job with your new qualifications. It just doesnt work like that buddy, I know because I have had first hand experience. I was doing low paid manual work but I realised if I wanted a better lifestyle I had to work for it.only prob was when I achieved better qualifications there was one allmighty stumbling block EXPERIENCE anybody who has trodden down the same path will tell you that. I would also never come on here bragging that you earn more than the rest of your family. Love it where you reduce the rent on your property by 50 because they are such nice people.pmsl
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 12:32:35 GMT
I don't think so, but happy to see the evidence if you think otherwise, as always! Over to you... oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/2583027There you go you seemed to quite like the phrase "Estimates from the Office for National Statistics suggest that public services have improved considerably over the period from 1997 to 2007 with measured outputs suggesting a one third increase in the quantity and quality of public services." Never to be used again after it was pointed out it was just an opinion and not a lukey fact The ONS is just some random bloke's baseless opinions is it? Time well spent, FYD, time well spent ???
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 18, 2014 13:41:06 GMT
oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/2583027There you go you seemed to quite like the phrase "Estimates from the Office for National Statistics suggest that public services have improved considerably over the period from 1997 to 2007 with measured outputs suggesting a one third increase in the quantity and quality of public services." Never to be used again after it was pointed out it was just an opinion and not a lukey fact The ONS is just some random bloke's baseless opinions is it? Time well spent, FYD, time well spent ??? Any time engaging with you is wasted time, you have a unique ability to ignore the point and or deliberately take things out of context with a liberal sprinkling of misquoting thrown in. The quote says public services improved considerably with measured outputs suggesting a one third increase in quantity and quality, towards the back of the report it then says something along the lines that this is a subjective view as it's not possible to measure accurately (i'm amazed your total recall memory seems to let you down on anything that makes you look a bit silly). The measures used were things like number of prescriptions dispensed so not 30% improvements in waiting lists or people dying from diseases such as cancer but the number of prescriptions dispensed, as soon as this was pointed out you quietly dropped the regular quoting of the report.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 18:05:31 GMT
The ONS is just some random bloke's baseless opinions is it? Time well spent, FYD, time well spent ??? Any time engaging with you is wasted time, you have a unique ability to ignore the point and or deliberately take things out of context with a liberal sprinkling of misquoting thrown in. The quote says public services improved considerably with measured outputs suggesting a one third increase in quantity and quality, towards the back of the report it then says something along the lines that this is a subjective view as it's not possible to measure accurately (i'm amazed your total recall memory seems to let you down on anything that makes you look a bit silly). The measures used were things like number of prescriptions dispensed so not 30% improvements in waiting lists or people dying from diseases such as cancer but the number of prescriptions dispensed, as soon as this was pointed out you quietly dropped the regular quoting of the report. Yeah, yeah, yeah, same old same old, all lies and misquotes as per usual, your normal fall back position. Remember when you steadfastly denied calling people names and being abusive on here, right up to the point where a whole bunch of abusive posts and name calling was provided at which point you changed to "So I call people names on the internet, ring a ding ding". Exactly the same here. If you can produce this infamous ONS report I'd like to see it. Alternatively, have a look at independent health research organisations like Nuffield Trust or the Health Foundation and see if they say anything about health improvements over the last 10 to 15 years being lost under this govt! If they are being lost, there must have been improvements in the first place for this lot to lose them, no? I guess that ONS report wasn't so far from the mark after all, eh ???
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 18, 2014 19:57:29 GMT
Any time engaging with you is wasted time, you have a unique ability to ignore the point and or deliberately take things out of context with a liberal sprinkling of misquoting thrown in. The quote says public services improved considerably with measured outputs suggesting a one third increase in quantity and quality, towards the back of the report it then says something along the lines that this is a subjective view as it's not possible to measure accurately (i'm amazed your total recall memory seems to let you down on anything that makes you look a bit silly). The measures used were things like number of prescriptions dispensed so not 30% improvements in waiting lists or people dying from diseases such as cancer but the number of prescriptions dispensed, as soon as this was pointed out you quietly dropped the regular quoting of the report. Yeah, yeah, yeah, same old same old, all lies and misquotes as per usual, your normal fall back position. Remember when you steadfastly denied calling people names and being abusive on here, right up to the point where a whole bunch of abusive posts and name calling was provided at which point you changed to "So I call people names on the internet, ring a ding ding". Exactly the same here. If you can produce this infamous ONS report I'd like to see it. Alternatively, have a look at independent health research organisations like Nuffield Trust or the Health Foundation and see if they say anything about health improvements over the last 10 to 15 years being lost under this govt! If they are being lost, there must have been improvements in the first place for this lot to lose them, no? I guess that ONS report wasn't so far from the mark after all, eh ??? Blah blah blah find it yourself it's on or around the thread I linked too. You can't help yourself can you lying about people accusing you of lies kinda shoots yourself in the foot. You need to move on let go of the past and not constantly “imagine the shit you'd get etc etc" You say right wingers are thick yet you seem amazed spending money on something improves it and it's funny how you suddenly stopped quoting the lukey fact that services had improved by a third all that time ago if it's just made up by me. As usual you're trying diversionary tactics quietly dropping the third part of the argument trying to just claim it was about service improvements.
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Post by bathstoke on Oct 18, 2014 20:53:35 GMT
Maggie was a scientist & as such had her whole theory planed out, but she didn't have all the component to make a true equation. She reasoned that everyone thought & had the same goals as her. That they would have some sort of Methodist vigur. In her lack of vision she opened a Pandoras Box. As we all know there is no going back from what she did & there is only one thing left in the box that wasn't released to the world. As Pink Floyd said, "Oh Maggie, What have you done!?!" She has left us all in a V dark place & if you can't see that, it's because its oh so very dark...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 20:53:51 GMT
looks like i got nearer the truth than i thought pmsl
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 4:56:20 GMT
What makes me laugh in all of this is the blinkered hatred of Maggie and all things Tory. Are you so naïve to think that she was single handedly responsible for such things as closing the mines. Just imagine the scene, 6.30am...Alarm goes off...I know Dennis...I am going to destroy a perfectly good and viable industry and throw tens of thousands of miners on the dole... Of course not. It would have been months, even years, of cross party consultation, bringing in experts in fields such as Geology, Power Generation, etc etc etc. As sad as it was, and believe me when I say it was a devastating blow to the UK, it was not done on a whim or out of spite.
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Post by britsabroad on Oct 19, 2014 6:51:08 GMT
What makes me laugh in all of this is the blinkered hatred of Maggie and all things Tory. Are you so naïve to think that she was single handedly responsible for such things as closing the mines. Just imagine the scene, 6.30am...Alarm goes off...I know Dennis...I am going to destroy a perfectly good and viable industry and throw tens of thousands of miners on the dole... Of course not. It would have been months, even years, of cross party consultation, bringing in experts in fields such as Geology, Power Generation, etc etc etc. As sad as it was, and believe me when I say it was a devastating blow to the UK, it was not done on a whim or out of spite. Exactly. Its amazing to see how fervently some people on here support their favourite political parties. All of them have good policies, and all of them have bad ones. Even the BNP have the occasional good idea. Most people I'd like to think can identify individual issues that mean something to them, see who has a policy that fits their belief on that issue, and vote based on who ticks the most boxes overall. There will always be fools who blindly support a particular party regardless, and unfortunately there are plenty in Stoke which is why the city has gone down the toilet in recent years.
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Post by bathstoke on Oct 19, 2014 7:16:10 GMT
What makes me laugh in all of this is the blinkered hatred of Maggie and all things Tory. Are you so naïve to think that she was single handedly responsible for such things as closing the mines. Just imagine the scene, 6.30am...Alarm goes off...I know Dennis...I am going to destroy a perfectly good and viable industry and throw tens of thousands of miners on the dole... Of course not. It would have been months, even years, of cross party consultation, bringing in experts in fields such as Geology, Power Generation, etc etc etc. As sad as it was, and believe me when I say it was a devastating blow to the UK, it was not done on a whim or out of spite. Yes, she was completely vindictive against the pits, it's that simple & to suggest otherwise is a lie...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2014 9:06:21 GMT
What makes me laugh in all of this is the blinkered hatred of Maggie and all things Tory. Are you so naïve to think that she was single handedly responsible for such things as closing the mines. Just imagine the scene, 6.30am...Alarm goes off...I know Dennis...I am going to destroy a perfectly good and viable industry and throw tens of thousands of miners on the dole... Of course not. It would have been months, even years, of cross party consultation, bringing in experts in fields such as Geology, Power Generation, etc etc etc. As sad as it was, and believe me when I say it was a devastating blow to the UK, it was not done on a whim or out of spite. Exactly. Its amazing to see how fervently some people on here support their favourite political parties. All of them have good policies, and all of them have bad ones. Even the BNP have the occasional good idea. Most people I'd like to think can identify individual issues that mean something to them, see who has a policy that fits their belief on that issue, and vote based on who ticks the most boxes overall. There will always be fools who blindly support a particular party regardless, and unfortunately there are plenty in Stoke which is why the city has gone down the toilet in recent years. Would you care to name the "occasional good idea" from the BNP?
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Post by britsabroad on Oct 19, 2014 14:25:54 GMT
Exactly. Its amazing to see how fervently some people on here support their favourite political parties. All of them have good policies, and all of them have bad ones. Even the BNP have the occasional good idea. Most people I'd like to think can identify individual issues that mean something to them, see who has a policy that fits their belief on that issue, and vote based on who ticks the most boxes overall. There will always be fools who blindly support a particular party regardless, and unfortunately there are plenty in Stoke which is why the city has gone down the toilet in recent years. Would you care to name the "occasional good idea" from the BNP? What is a good idea for me may not be a good idea for you, and vice versa. Thats the point of the post, that you completely missed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 18:14:21 GMT
Would you care to name the "occasional good idea" from the BNP? What is a good idea for me may not be a good idea for you, and vice versa. Thats the point of the post, that you completely missed. No doubt, but I (and presumably Huddy and maybe some other posters for all I know) would be quite interested to know which BNP ideas you personally thought were good ones?
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