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Post by pedro23 on Sept 23, 2014 21:03:43 GMT
1. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then mate.
2. We didn't blow large money on him (our total spend that window is irrelevant), we got him cheap, if he was consistent, then we wouldn't have been able to afford him in the first pace - we did do our research.
3. Are you seriously advocating dropping one of Moses, Crouch or Diouf to give him a run of games?
Where have I advocated dropping anyone? I agree with you but at the same time i'm mindful of the player and his character and what he needs. If we do this for the rest of the season ( 1 game in 3 out) then we'll get nothing out of him. Absolutely nothing. Is that good management to write off a 2.5M investment like that? The last manager was rightly criticised for that. 2.5M was half of our spend last season. It was/is a considerable amount of money when we are actively slashing our spending. How you can say it is irrelevant is staggering. It's certainly very relevant when we are having to spend 1M a pop on loans to replace him. But how could he expect to be selected based on tonight's performance, it looked to me he was either losing or giving the ball away every time he had it. I like the player and understand being a touch player, his form can vary greatly, but I was shocked just how poor he was.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 23, 2014 21:05:02 GMT
Now you're talking They're shit at the minute Not enough tickets though I can watch from my back bedroom window. Anyone want a ticket. Ooh er missus. Anyway it'll be the bindippers you watch (they're winning 2-1)
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Sept 23, 2014 21:06:13 GMT
Not enough tickets though I can watch from my back bedroom window. Anyone want a ticket. Ooh er missus. Anyway it'll be the bindippers you watch (they're winning 2-1) Any places in that bedroom
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Post by adi on Sept 23, 2014 21:07:02 GMT
Are you blinkered? He had a pretty poor game. He did agreed but Assaidi and Ireland were equally shit. Did Assaidi get an assist?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 21:08:38 GMT
Where have I advocated dropping anyone? I agree with you but at the same time i'm mindful of the player and his character and what he needs. If we do this for the rest of the season ( 1 game in 3 out) then we'll get nothing out of him. Absolutely nothing. Is that good management to write off a 2.5M investment like that? The last manager was rightly criticised for that. 2.5M was half of our spend last season. It was/is a considerable amount of money when we are actively slashing our spending. How you can say it is irrelevant is staggering. It's certainly very relevant when we are having to spend 1M a pop on loans to replace him.
1. You said that he needs a run of games. He hasn't been starting, we can only field eleven players at a time, ergo that if you want him to have a run of games then, wait for it ... we'll have to drop someone.
2. You have absolutely no idea what our transfer budget is, Arnie cost £2.5 million, a figure that amounts to very little in today's game for any player, it's not staggering to suggest that our total spend that window is irrelevant at all, for all you know we could have offered £12 million for Yarmolenko (or whoever) and (for whatever reason) it just didn't happen.
3. Odemwingie injury.
I'm fully aware of the rules of football Paul, and how many players we can pick. As are most people on here. Thanks for the condescending response though. Really any need for that? All i'm saying is that we either play him or suffer performances like this, because he's that type of player. Take your pick.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 23, 2014 21:08:45 GMT
I can watch from my back bedroom window. Anyone want a ticket. Ooh er missus. Anyway it'll be the bindippers you watch (they're winning 2-1) Any places in that bedroom I bet you say that to all the boys. You smooth bastard
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Post by cooperman45 on Sept 23, 2014 21:08:59 GMT
Just seen Muniesa's second goal on sky. What a left foot rocket.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 23, 2014 21:12:47 GMT
1. You said that he needs a run of games. He hasn't been starting, we can only field eleven players at a time, ergo that if you want him to have a run of games then, wait for it ... we'll have to drop someone.
2. You have absolutely no idea what our transfer budget is, Arnie cost £2.5 million, a figure that amounts to very little in today's game for any player, it's not staggering to suggest that our total spend that window is irrelevant at all, for all you know we could have offered £12 million for Yarmolenko (or whoever) and (for whatever reason) it just didn't happen.
3. Odemwingie injury.
I'm fully aware of the rules of football Paul, and how many players we can pick. As are most people on here. Thanks for the condescending response though. Really any need for that? All i'm saying is that we either play him or suffer performances like this, because he's that type of player. Take your pick. So are you saying we drop Moses, Crouch or Diouf to accommodate Arnie or not? You can't have it both ways.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 21:15:39 GMT
I'm fully aware of the rules of football Paul, and how many players we can pick. As are most people on here. Thanks for the condescending response though. Really any need for that? All i'm saying is that we either play him or suffer performances like this, because he's that type of player. Take your pick. So are you saying we drop Moses, Crouch or Diouf to accommodate Arnie or not? You can't have it both ways. The argument isn't black and white is it? It isn't about Arnie is playing bad, he needs games so drop players that are playing well. It isn't the Arnautovic show, it's about Stoke City FC. He's off form, he's the type of player that needs a run of games, he won't get those games whilst he is out of form so expect those type of performances whilst he is in and out of the side. Personally I couldn't give a shit who plays aslong as we play well and win games. At the same time i'm not all over him like a rash when he plays poorly.
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2014 21:20:05 GMT
I'm fully aware of the rules of football Paul, and how many players we can pick. As are most people on here. Thanks for the condescending response though. Really any need for that? All i'm saying is that we either play him or suffer performances like this, because he's that type of player. Take your pick. So are you saying we drop Moses, Crouch or Diouf to accommodate Arnie or not? You can't have it both ways. shouldnt make any allowences for arnie and his glass temperament hughes has been rightly praised for picking players on form .
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 23, 2014 21:21:44 GMT
1. You said that he needs a run of games. He hasn't been starting, we can only field eleven players at a time, ergo that if you want him to have a run of games then, wait for it ... we'll have to drop someone.
2. You have absolutely no idea what our transfer budget is, Arnie cost £2.5 million, a figure that amounts to very little in today's game for any player, it's not staggering to suggest that our total spend that window is irrelevant at all, for all you know we could have offered £12 million for Yarmolenko (or whoever) and (for whatever reason) it just didn't happen.
3. Odemwingie injury.
I'm fully aware of the rules of football Paul, and how many players we can pick. As are most people on here. Thanks for the condescending response though. Really any need for that? All i'm saying is that we either play him or suffer performances like this, because he's that type of player. Take your pick.
I was deliberately being condescending because equally, you had done exactly the same thing, when asking where you had suggested dropping anybody?
You can't make a suggestion and pretend that there's only one consequence, that being the building up of Arnie's confidence, there's (obviously) also the consequence of having to drop one of three players who are all in form, to do so.
If you can't suggest who that player should be, then I'd suggest you don't feel entirely confident with the suggestion that he should be given a run of games.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2014 21:22:53 GMT
He did agreed but Assaidi and Ireland were equally shit. Did Assaidi get an assist? He did yeh.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 21:44:18 GMT
I'm fully aware of the rules of football Paul, and how many players we can pick. As are most people on here. Thanks for the condescending response though. Really any need for that? All i'm saying is that we either play him or suffer performances like this, because he's that type of player. Take your pick.
I was deliberately being condescending because equally, you had done exactly the same thing, when asking where you had suggested dropping anybody?
You can't make a suggestion and pretend that there's only one consequence, that being the building up of Arnie's confidence, there's (obviously) also the consequence of having to drop one of three players who are all in form, to do so.
If you can't suggest who that player should be, then I'd suggest you don't feel entirely confident with the suggestion that he should be given a run of games.
I'm not asking the manager to drop players to give him a run of games. I'm suggesting that we won't see the best of him until he gets those games, thus giving us the conundrum. Checkmate if you like. I'm well aware he doesn't deserve those games given his form. Oh and i think theres a stark difference between asking where i stated that someone be dropped for him and someone sarcastically explaining the rules of the game we're debating. I guess you live and learn though?
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Post by maninasuitcase on Sept 23, 2014 21:57:39 GMT
The next question is can we beat the fuckers in the league in a fortnight at the stadium of shite.
Would be great to take 3 points of the twats as well.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 23, 2014 22:02:41 GMT
I was deliberately being condescending because equally, you had done exactly the same thing, when asking where you had suggested dropping anybody?
You can't make a suggestion and pretend that there's only one consequence, that being the building up of Arnie's confidence, there's (obviously) also the consequence of having to drop one of three players who are all in form, to do so.
If you can't suggest who that player should be, then I'd suggest you don't feel entirely confident with the suggestion that he should be given a run of games.
I'm not asking the manager to drop players to give him a run of games. I'm suggesting that we won't see the best of him until he gets those games, thus giving us the conundrum. Checkmate if you like. I'm well aware he doesn't deserve those games given his form. Oh and i think theres a stark difference between asking where i stated that someone be dropped for him and someone sarcastically explaining the rules of the game we're debating. I guess you live and learn though? I'm sure you can see why some of us might be a bit confused, it certainly seems like you were suggesting that ...
i'm mindful of the player and his character and what he needs. If we do this for the rest of the season ( 1 game in 3 out) then we'll get nothing out of him. Absolutely nothing. Is that good management to write off a 2.5M investment like that? The last manager was rightly criticised for that.
I think my reply was entirely warranted, you seemed to be suggesting that the manager should give him a run of games and in order for that to happen a player would (obviously) need to be dropped, so no need to (condescendingly) ask me where you had suggested it. I can assure you that you wouldn't have got my response otherwise.
If in fact you don't actually think he does deserve a run of games, then we are in total agreement and I have absolutely no idea what we're arguing about!
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Post by jwhpotter on Sept 23, 2014 22:12:12 GMT
Standard shite from the BBC talking about Sunderland
"They will perhaps feel a little aggrieved, having dominated for large periods, but in the end were undone by two fine strikes."
Looking ahead to Monday, for me Assaidi has to startt, him and Moses down the wings could cause Castle real problems
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Post by Cast no shadow on Sept 23, 2014 22:15:46 GMT
Highlights anywhere?
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Post by mccfred on Sept 23, 2014 22:16:55 GMT
The only real bummer from this game was Arnautovic's performance. Still can't find his form, he still looks a long ways from starting league games. Rather see Assaidi or Moses start ahead of him.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 23, 2014 22:19:27 GMT
Standard shite from the BBC talking about Sunderland "They will perhaps feel a little aggrieved, having dominated for large periods, but in the end were undone by two fine strikes." Looking ahead to Monday, for me Assaidi has to startt, him and Moses down the wings could cause Castle real problems V. Surprised to see Assaidi negativity on here. Issues defensively but a real handful going forward. Way ahead of Arnie in my calculations at the moment.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 23, 2014 22:26:16 GMT
Standard shite from the BBC talking about Sunderland "They will perhaps feel a little aggrieved, having dominated for large periods, but in the end were undone by two fine strikes." Looking ahead to Monday, for me Assaidi has to startt, him and Moses down the wings could cause Castle real problems 4-4-2 for me as follows: Bego Bardsley, Ryan, Huth, Pieters Arnie, Whelan, N'zonzi, Moses Crouch, Diouf How did Huth play tonight and how did Diouf do as the lone forward?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 23, 2014 22:33:45 GMT
Standard shite from the BBC talking about Sunderland "They will perhaps feel a little aggrieved, having dominated for large periods, but in the end were undone by two fine strikes." Looking ahead to Monday, for me Assaidi has to startt, him and Moses down the wings could cause Castle real problems 4-4-2 for me as follows: Bego Bardsley, Ryan, Huth, Pieters Arnie, Whelan, N'zonzi, Moses Crouch, Diouf How did Huth play tonight and how did Diouf do as the lone forward? Not a chance of Arnie playing Monday Dave. Not a prayer unless injuries pile up. Huthy was decent enough and maybe in with a shout and Diouf did OK isolated at times and whilst he has strength, I was expecting a much more physical player. Not for me in the 1 of a 4-2-3-1.
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Post by Robo10 on Sept 23, 2014 22:33:50 GMT
Yes you can see why Sunderland could be aggrieved from the stats...
Sun - Stoke
Possession 60-40 Shots 10-12 On Target 4-6 Corners 6-4 Fouls 13-12
So we were more threatening with the ball, more shots and more accurate, and most importantly more goals....and a far better keeper than them!
In fact my only gripe (bar the Arnie bashing on here) is that I backed 3-1 and we had plenty of chances to earn me £50!
Fuck you BBC!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 23, 2014 22:39:44 GMT
4-4-2 for me as follows: Bego Bardsley, Ryan, Huth, Pieters Arnie, Whelan, N'zonzi, Moses Crouch, Diouf How did Huth play tonight and how did Diouf do as the lone forward? Not a chance of Arnie playing Monday Dave. Not a prayer unless injuries pile up. Huthy was decent enough and maybe in with a shout and Diouf did OK isolated at times and whilst he has strength, I was expecting a much more physical player. Not for me in the 1 of a 4-2-3-1.
Completely agree with Sheikhy Dave ...
Arnie was beyond awful tonight - not a chance he'll be in the mix on Monday, Diouf's work rate was phenomenal but I'm not convinced yet that he can do it as the '1' in a 4-2-3-1 - much prefer him with Crouch.
Huth played well, some people are suggesting he was at fault for the first goal but I think that's harsh - the centre backs had absolutely no protection at all tonight and at times there was a gaping hole in front of them.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 24, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
Not a chance of Arnie playing Monday Dave. Not a prayer unless injuries pile up. Huthy was decent enough and maybe in with a shout and Diouf did OK isolated at times and whilst he has strength, I was expecting a much more physical player. Not for me in the 1 of a 4-2-3-1.
Completely agree with Sheikhy Dave ...
Arnie was beyond awful tonight - not a chance he'll be in the mix on Monday, Diouf's work rate was phenomenal but I'm not convinced yet that he can do it as the '1' in a 4-2-3-1 - much prefer him with Crouch.
Huth played well, some people are suggesting he was at fault for the first goal but I think that's harsh - the centre backs had absolutely no protection at all tonight and at times there was a gaping hole in front of them.
If we were against a better team they would have taken full advantage of it, our team without Whelan (or Whelan type) looks a bit venerable, wouldn't want that midfield for any prolonged period of time tbh. On another note though, I think Sunderland are going to be in trouble again come the end of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 6:12:37 GMT
I'm not asking the manager to drop players to give him a run of games. I'm suggesting that we won't see the best of him until he gets those games, thus giving us the conundrum. Checkmate if you like. I'm well aware he doesn't deserve those games given his form. Oh and i think theres a stark difference between asking where i stated that someone be dropped for him and someone sarcastically explaining the rules of the game we're debating. I guess you live and learn though? I'm sure you can see why some of us might be a bit confused, it certainly seems like you were suggesting that ...
i'm mindful of the player and his character and what he needs. If we do this for the rest of the season ( 1 game in 3 out) then we'll get nothing out of him. Absolutely nothing. Is that good management to write off a 2.5M investment like that? The last manager was rightly criticised for that.
I think my reply was entirely warranted, you seemed to be suggesting that the manager should give him a run of games and in order for that to happen a player would (obviously) need to be dropped, so no need to (condescendingly) ask me where you had suggested it. I can assure you that you wouldn't have got my response otherwise.
If in fact you don't actually think he does deserve a run of games, then we are in total agreement and I have absolutely no idea what we're arguing about!
As long as you are happy with it Paul, then I guess we can leave it there. Edit:
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 24, 2014 7:36:17 GMT
Get in the queue, so do me & the whole family since Delap left...
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Post by foster on Sept 24, 2014 8:53:50 GMT
Some shit commentary/reports yesterday.. including:
1) BBC match report: They (Sunderland) will perhaps feel a little aggrieved, having dominated for large periods, but in the end were undone by two fine strikes.
When did they dominate for large periods? We easily dominated the entire first half and the first 30 minutes of the second half were dogged with neither team doing much.
2) BeIn sports commentary: (Camera on Poyet with Cattermole sat behind him). "Lee Cattermole chewing gum, Aka Alex Ferguson, sat on the shoulder of Poyet"
Where the fuck did that come from?
3) BeIn Sports commentary: (In relation to Huth playing well in defence) "Robert Huth has been unable to get into the starting line up this season because of the excellent form of Marc Wilson. His form has been so good that he has even been recalled to the Ireland squad".
After that one I switched off the volume.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2014 9:38:47 GMT
I have not heard the BBC match report, but if Sunderland did have most of the possession, they did not use it. and spent a lot of time passing along the back line unable to penetrate. This was a bit like Stoke in the Villa match. Stoke also did quite a bit of passing sideways and back, but they did also penetrate forward down the flanks, particularly using Muniesa, or long balls to Diouf and Arni, who is so brilliant at catching a long ball on his foot.
Listening to Sunderland fans last night and chatting to a local, this morning, they recognize Sunderland penetrated very little and their opportunities were largely restricted to free kicks and corners. They are very critical of Poyet who has brought in lots of defenders and they are letting in goals and haven't a goal scorer.
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Post by bignickhowes on Sept 24, 2014 12:10:36 GMT
I wish stoke to do well, hopefully they wont do a Villa of a couple of years ago and get to the semis only to go out to league 2 bradford over 2 legs
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Post by steve66 on Sept 24, 2014 12:13:12 GMT
Goals, sorry if already posted elsewhere.
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