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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 19, 2014 11:32:03 GMT
We have had the fewest opposition shots on target this season, with Villa, Hull, Man City and Leicester only managing six between them. Taken from here: m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29262223 |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 19, 2014 11:37:04 GMT
I don't it's that surprising when in three of the four games we had 2/3rds possession of the football.
Conceding 50% of all on target shots though is scary.!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 11:39:08 GMT
We have had the fewest opposition shots on target this season, with Villa, Hull, Man City and Leicester only managing six between them. Taken from here: m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29262223Wilson out. |
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Post by Gods on Sept 19, 2014 11:41:11 GMT
My take on those stats is that so far we have been just a little bit unlucky.
The low scoring nature of football makes it the chanciest sport on the planet, and of course that is partly why it is so exciting.
If you were to tell me we didn't deserve to beat Villa or Leicester then perhaps you are correct but there is no way either of those teams deserved the full 3 points either. Neither showed any ambition whatsoever and they created the best part of nothing at all between them.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 19, 2014 11:49:26 GMT
I suppose it would be interesting to compare our 50% of shot on target conceded with figures for what % of our shots on target have gone in.
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Post by vahl on Sept 19, 2014 11:56:54 GMT
I said it in the QPR thread but, we are not looking a bad defensive unit. I'm not sure what a lot of others are seeing but I'm pretty sure I've been watching a different team.  Our only problem on the pitch is converting chances into goals. Every team has this problem that plays the same way we do because, ironically, the best way to counter this style is to play exactly how we used to, as we saw highlighted in the World Cup and Champions League last season. Teams in England have cottoned on though I'm afraid. The front 4 is where we are coming up short so far. We have got to find the right balance, and when we do, I honestly feel sorry for a lot of teams. |
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Post by lordb on Sept 19, 2014 11:57:46 GMT
My take on those stats is that so far we have been just a little bit unlucky. The low scoring nature of football makes it the chanciest sport on the planet, and of course that is partly why it is so exciting. If you were to tell me we didn't deserve to beat Villa or Leicester then perhaps you are correct but there is no way either of those teams deserved the full 3 points either. Neither showed any ambition whatsoever and they created the best part of nothing at all between them. Stoke deserved nothing from the Villa game,we were appalling. maybe 0.0 woudln't have been unfair Leicester game was no comparison but again can't begrudge Leicester the points as it was our own fault re finishing & stuff |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 19, 2014 12:02:19 GMT
Which makes the fact we're giving ridiculously sloppy, embarrassing goals away all the more galling.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 12:05:54 GMT
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 19, 2014 12:07:44 GMT
You've given up on reasoned discussion then Thomas? Never takes long. |
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Post by MadridStokie on Sept 19, 2014 12:17:42 GMT
I cant find that data in the link - where is it (under which team) ... am I being blind ??!!!
Edit - found it - I was being blind !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 12:20:47 GMT
Our biggest problems lie at the other end of the pitch. That is painstakingly obvious, if you look at it without agenda or predetermined opinions.
If people are obsessed with the 3 goals in 4 games that we have conceded then it breaks down as: -
* The first: a comedy of errors, without the humour, involving around 5 or 6 players. You'd be hard pushed to pin it down to any one individual. The midfielders should have done more in front of the defence, the back 4 were then all over the place and then Bego perhaps should have done better (given that he got a full hand to it).
* The second - I agree, Wilson does take a portion of the blame. He should've been more alert and reacting better to the parried shot back into the danger area. That "parry" being the biggest "mistake" that led to the goal though. Begovic will know he should have done better than that. It's obviously more convenient to blame Wilson though.
* The third - Bardsley and whowever was on the right flank allowed Leicester the freedom of the city, and all the time in the world to pick out a cross from the wing. Ulloa ultimately ended up as Wilson's man, which is why he is singled out, but if you watch the play back and freeze it as the ball breaks to the flank, it is actually Shawcross who is closest to Ulloa, with Wilson sitting deeper. As the play develops, Shawcross runs across the face of goal which ultimately leaves Ulloa to Wilson. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it is abundantly clear there is no communication as both centre halves are "ball watching" on the player about to deliver the ball into the box. Again, easier to just single out Wilson.
You could choose to focus on the above 3 goals, and unfairly single an individual out. And it is a no-brainer to suggest we need to do better at the back. That goes for the entire unit of 5, and those in front of them too.
In all honesty, I'd prefer to concentrate on our complete and utter lacklustre performance in the final third, and the fact we've only scored two goals from the 129 chances we've created.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 19, 2014 12:23:16 GMT
I don't have an agenda. I haven't said scoring goals isn't a problem. I wanted Wilson to start the season as first choice CB. I didn't single Wilson out on this thread or even mention his name.
Giving away daft goals is every bit as much of a problem as not being able to score at the other end because if you don't concede, you don't, you know, lose.
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Post by 2004 on Sept 19, 2014 12:26:09 GMT
Sounds about right. Every goal we have conceded this year have all been shit goals.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 12:27:18 GMT
I'd be quite happy if we maintain our ratio of goals conceded per game for the rest of the season, no matter how sloppy those goals are.
It's the other end that needs improvement. Because without goals you can't, you know, win.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 19, 2014 12:28:27 GMT
I'd be quite happy if we maintain our ratio of goals conceded per game for the rest of the season, no matter how sloppy those goals are. It's the other end that needs improvement. Because without goals you can't, you know, win. Something I haven't denied at any stage. But we're shooting ourselves in the foot with some absolutely amateurish defending at the moment and to act as if that isn't a big factor in us losing games is silly. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 12:30:31 GMT
I'd be quite happy if we maintain our ratio of goals conceded per game for the rest of the season, no matter how sloppy those goals are. It's the other end that needs improvement. Because without goals you can't, you know, win. Something I haven't denied at any stage. But we're shooting ourselves in the foot with some absolutely amateurish defending at the moment and to act as if that isn't a big factor in us losing games is silly. If we'd have taken a small percentage of the chances we actually created though, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 19, 2014 12:31:46 GMT
Something I haven't denied at any stage. But we're shooting ourselves in the foot with some absolutely amateurish defending at the moment and to act as if that isn't a big factor in us losing games is silly. If we'd have taken a small percentage of the chances we actually created though, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. And we'd have at least a couple of extra points if we hadn't switched off at crucial times, which you can't afford to do. As I said, they're BOTH important. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 12:35:33 GMT
If we'd have taken a small percentage of the chances we actually created though, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. And we'd have at least a couple of extra points if we hadn't switched off at crucial times, which you can't afford to do. As I said, they're BOTH important. Of course they are both important. It's just that one is much more important than the other. For the record, there is only one team in the whole league that has concede fewer goals than us (Villa). The goals have been sloppy, agreed, but it's not as if we're leaking goals left, right and centre and we've got a massive issue on our hands. The biggest problems we currently face are in the attacking third, not at the back. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 12:49:18 GMT
Just shows what a good shielding job the midfield, Whelan in particular, are doing for the back 4.
I think the back 4 in general have been underworked thus far, which may account for the 'switching off' and conceding sloppy goals.
I wonder what would happen if we swapped N'Zonzi for a more attack minded central midfielder, like Adam?
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Post by Gods on Sept 19, 2014 14:09:08 GMT
My take on those stats is that so far we have been just a little bit unlucky. The low scoring nature of football makes it the chanciest sport on the planet, and of course that is partly why it is so exciting. If you were to tell me we didn't deserve to beat Villa or Leicester then perhaps you are correct but there is no way either of those teams deserved the full 3 points either. Neither showed any ambition whatsoever and they created the best part of nothing at all between them. Stoke deserved nothing from the Villa game,we were appalling. maybe 0.0 woudln't have been unfair Leicester game was no comparison but again can't begrudge Leicester the points as it was our own fault re finishing & stuff But lordb you're a reasonable fella, had we gone to either Villa or Leicester and offered as little attacking intent as these sides did at our place and came away with the 3 points surely you would have considered us a tad fortunate? In such a way that 9 times out of 10 the football gods would not have allowed a smash and grab raid of that kind to work. Of course we did it to Man City but its kind of allowed when you are playing the Champions but against peer teams I think you have to offer more than Villa or Leicester did not to be considered to be fortunate to walk off with what Hughes calls "the 3 points"  I'd say on another day we would have got 1 point against Villa and 3 against Leicester. Either way lets hope we can somehow garner 3 points against QPR, a game where I expect it will be our turn to come under the cosh to some extent! |
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Post by Gods on Sept 19, 2014 14:11:33 GMT
chiefdelilah and whydelilah, fuck me one of you needs a name change! I never remember which one is the poster formerly known as "RVD" and which one has a contract out on Marc Wilson  |
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Sept 19, 2014 14:16:55 GMT
Wonder whether Ryan's piled river at Hull counts as part of the 50%?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 14:19:01 GMT
chiefdelilah and whydelilah, fuck me one of you needs a name change! I never remember which one is the poster formerly known as "RVD" and which one has a contract out on Marc Wilson Chief is RVD. |
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Post by thebet365 on Sept 19, 2014 14:19:45 GMT
I don't get this Leicester offered nothing and did a smash and grab. When a team plays keep ball like we did in our own half then they're not really gonna go for broke, and when they did get the ball I thought Ulloa was busy most of the game and Cambiasso changed the game for them bringing a bit of class to their team pinging balls around for fun.
When we started to force the issue in the last few minutes they looked shit but that was the problem, we didn't really show any urgency until it was too late.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 15:04:16 GMT
Seems like the manager is on the right track...
MH: That's the beauty of sport! On the day if we'd scored first, which is vitally important... Only Chelsea on that day were able to come back from behind. Our performance was better than against Villa. We are not a million miles away. We have not conceded too many goals. We are probably at the top end defensively but that doesn't show in points.
3:54
How about goal scoring? 27 shots, 6 on target, no goals against Leicester?
3:55
MH: I'm confident the players I have here will address that. We did have problems last year with a lack of goals that hindered us at certain points but we came through at the back end. We've got enough quality and we've added players who will give us different options. Even last year we improved on recent seasons by 10 more goals... if we can do that again that'd be great.
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Post by owdestokie on Sept 19, 2014 15:27:02 GMT
Something I haven't denied at any stage. But we're shooting ourselves in the foot with some absolutely amateurish defending at the moment and to act as if that isn't a big factor in us losing games is silly. If we'd have taken a small percentage of the chances we actually created though, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. I"m not sure that we have created that many chances to miss, especially "clear cut manufactured" chances |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 19, 2014 16:29:09 GMT
Seems like the manager is on the right track... MH: That's the beauty of sport! On the day if we'd scored first, which is vitally important... Only Chelsea on that day were able to come back from behind. Our performance was better than against Villa. We are not a million miles away. We have not conceded too many goals. We are probably at the top end defensively but that doesn't show in points. 3:54 How about goal scoring? 27 shots, 6 on target, no goals against Leicester?3:55 MH: I'm confident the players I have here will address that. We did have problems last year with a lack of goals that hindered us at certain points but we came through at the back end. We've got enough quality and we've added players who will give us different options. Even last year we improved on recent seasons by 10 more goals... if we can do that again that'd be great. Sloppy goals and not scoring equals one thing. |
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Post by adi on Sept 19, 2014 17:25:16 GMT
I don't it's that surprising when in three of the four games we had 2/3rds possession of the football. Conceding 50% of all on target shots though is scary.! It's bad in that respect but it depends on what balls and where. If you get me? |
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Post by adi on Sept 19, 2014 17:26:37 GMT
Seems like the manager is on the right track... MH: That's the beauty of sport! On the day if we'd scored first, which is vitally important... Only Chelsea on that day were able to come back from behind. Our performance was better than against Villa. We are not a million miles away. We have not conceded too many goals. We are probably at the top end defensively but that doesn't show in points. 3:54 How about goal scoring? 27 shots, 6 on target, no goals against Leicester?3:55 MH: I'm confident the players I have here will address that. We did have problems last year with a lack of goals that hindered us at certain points but we came through at the back end. We've got enough quality and we've added players who will give us different options. Even last year we improved on recent seasons by 10 more goals... if we can do that again that'd be great. We will sort it. It's not like we are fucked. Ktf |
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