|
|
Post by AlbertTatlock on Sept 14, 2014 12:46:32 GMT
As much as I like the big fella, Crouch just hasn't got enough goals in him (March since his last league goal), we play a system that revolves around him, he gets knocked off the ball far too easily, for a player of his height he loses more headers than he wins, has no pace or strength on the ball and never seems to be in the right place at the right time, his knock downs and flick-ons rarely find a Stoke player and we start to look predictable and one dimensional with Crouch in the side. As for Walters he'd be a bench warmer at the most, again no pace fist touch of an Elephant, doesn't have the ability to beat someone on the wings and again is a non scoring forward, no denying his effort and work-rate but we need more than that. Can anyone say that Walters is the best player we have to fill the right wing/midfield role? Whelan he's ben a great servant and not always everyone's favourite player, but we need some creativity and not another defensive midfielder in the team, again a lack of goals from him in midfield, some people say we play well when Whelan plays well, if that's the case then he isn't playing well consistently enough, again a place on the bench would be the best solution IMO. I like all 3 players and I'd be happy for them to stay at Stoke but we need players that can open up stubborn defences and take their chances when they get them, Walters and Crouch played well in the cup game against Portsmouth but should have both had a hat trick apiece but were guilty of fucking up guilt edged chances and that was against a struggling league 2 side, Crouch has carried this worrying trend on in his league form and we need to start playing a different style so we can get the best out of the players we've bought in. Gouranga.  |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 14, 2014 12:47:47 GMT
Whelan was very good yesterday.
We need a defensive midfielder.
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 14, 2014 12:48:28 GMT
Whelan? You mad?
|
|
|
|
Post by StokieAsh13 on Sept 14, 2014 12:49:51 GMT
Whelan under Hughes has been nothing short of outstanding.
|
|
|
|
Post by Linx on Sept 14, 2014 12:49:48 GMT
Albert, stop trolling. Crouch and Whelan were excellent yesterday.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 12:50:51 GMT
Whelan was very good yesterday. We need a defensive midfielder. I agree. With regards to Crouch, I think we need to replace him with a like for like in the summer - a physical target man, just to give us options. Ironically I'd take Ulloa. Walters likewise, been great but we'll step it up. A winger with physicality would be great, Moses has some strength with others lack and I think we need some power as well as pace on the wing. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 12:55:05 GMT
I thought Whelan played very well yesterday. I think we need to stick with a system that makes him work because any other would require a top notch player to replace him.
I think that would cost millions that we no longer have.
|
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 14, 2014 12:57:18 GMT
Cramming as many attacking players into your team as you can doesn't automatically improve your attacking play. You need a balance.
|
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Sept 14, 2014 12:58:54 GMT
Whelan, nzonzi, plus one of adam, Ireland, bojan
could someone please explain the role of whelan and nzonzi. Holding midfielders? One goes one stays? I just don't get nzonzi's role. I'm not going to start having a go at him again, but I just don't get what he does. I saw him have that great run yesterday and then forgot he was on the pitch. Is he a ball winner? Does he like to get forward, because he's got as bad a shot on him than whelan?
That old bald bloke came on yesterday and changed the midfield for them. Someone answer those many questions above and tell me what roles ours have.
|
|
|
|
Post by AlbertTatlock on Sept 14, 2014 13:03:53 GMT
Whelan was very good yesterday. We need a defensive midfielder. You mean like N'Zonzi? Gouranga. |
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 14, 2014 13:06:13 GMT
Whelan was very good yesterday. We need a defensive midfielder. You mean like N'Zonzi? Gouranga. He isn't one. He's a box to box midfielder. He doesn't do much of the off the ball stuff a good DM needs to do. |
|
|
|
Post by geoffscott on Sept 14, 2014 13:07:11 GMT
One game ago all three played (as part of the first 11) in a match that was one of Stoke City's best performances and best results in the premier league.
Glenn Whelan has been one of the most consistent performers at the highest level in 2014.
Very strange op in my opinion.
Maybe too much sherry been passed around at Albert's home before Sunday dinner, me thinks.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Sept 14, 2014 13:12:41 GMT
I see where you are coming from with Crouch and Walters but not Whelan.
Crouch was one of Stoke's best players yesterday and worked harder than anyone to win that match, but alas he didn't do the main task which is to score.
Whelan was excellent. It seemed to me that most of the time the ball went through him out of defence, until things got desperate. He also defended very well, as did Crouch.
Sadly Walters is out of his class. Much as I love his commitment and energy, IMO he is not top half Premier league standard. In fact I doubt he is Premier League standard at all these days. He just seems to run about a lot with no end product in terms of opening defences, creating assists, or scoring goals. If only we could transplant his qualities into Arni!
|
|
|
|
Post by AlbertTatlock on Sept 14, 2014 13:13:46 GMT
Albert, stop trolling. Crouch and Whelan were excellent yesterday. How many chances did Crouch have yesterday and how many did he fuck up? How many headers has won in the penalty box lately? How many times is he easily knocked off the ball or fall over? His strike rate for stoke is 1 in 4.16 games he played in the league. Whelan was OK yesterday and only fucked up a few time which didn't really cost us but he should have had a booking, however his cock ups quite often put us under real pressure, fortunately for us weren't playing a better side or it could have been worse. Walters was well Walters need I say more? Gouranga. |
|
|
|
Post by AlbertTatlock on Sept 14, 2014 13:16:47 GMT
You mean like N'Zonzi? Gouranga. He isn't one. He's a box to box midfielder. He doesn't do much of the off the ball stuff a good DM needs to do. N'Zonzi supposed to be a defensive midfielder, he's certainly not an attacking midfielder. Gouranga. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 14, 2014 13:18:32 GMT
You mean like N'Zonzi? Gouranga. He isn't one. He's a box to box midfielder. He doesn't do much of the off the ball stuff a good DM needs to do. And yet he isn't anywhere close to being good enough in an attacking sense to be played as a box to box midfielder. I think Nzonzi's role in the team is becoming less justifiable by the week. He isn't great defensively and he's utterly clueless going forward. I said it in the summer we needed to spend big money (or smart money) on a top quality powerhouse centre mid who can drive play forward with urgency. This area is a serious concern. We aren't good enough to carry midfielders. Right now Whelan is outperforming Nzonzi on a weekly basis (which I can't believe I'm saying). |
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Sept 14, 2014 13:19:07 GMT
As much as I like the big fella, Crouch just hasn't got enough goals in him (March since his last league goal), we play a system that revolves around him, he gets knocked off the ball far too easily, for a player of his height he loses more headers than he wins, has no pace or strength on the ball and never seems to be in the right place at the right time, his knock downs and flick-ons rarely find a Stoke player and we start to look predictable and one dimensional with Crouch in the side. As for Walters he'd be a bench warmer at the most, again no pace fist touch of an Elephant, doesn't have the ability to beat someone on the wings and again is a non scoring forward, no denying his effort and work-rate but we need more than that. Can anyone say that Walters is the best player we have to fill the right wing/midfield role? Whelan he's ben a great servant and not always everyone's favourite player, but we need some creativity and not another defensive midfielder in the team, again a lack of goals from him in midfield, some people say we play well when Whelan plays well, if that's the case then he isn't playing well consistently enough, again a place on the bench would be the best solution IMO. I like all 3 players and I'd be happy for them to stay at Stoke but we need players that can open up stubborn defences and take their chances when they get them, Walters and Crouch played well in the cup game against Portsmouth but should have both had a hat trick apiece but were guilty of fucking up guilt edged chances and that was against a struggling league 2 side, Crouch has carried this worrying trend on in his league form and we need to start playing a different style so we can get the best out of the players we've bought in. Gouranga. I think we'll need all 3 this season! Whelan has been steady as always this season, Crouch has been lively as well, but yesterday was one of the days where he simply couldn't get the ball in the net. Walters is a useful alternative, but shouldn't start at home against inferior teams! Away against the better teams I think he often can be the right option though. |
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 14, 2014 13:20:05 GMT
He isn't one. He's a box to box midfielder. He doesn't do much of the off the ball stuff a good DM needs to do. N'Zonzi supposed to be a defensive midfielder, he's certainly not an attacking midfielder. Gouranga. He's a box to box midfielder, like I said. |
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Sept 14, 2014 13:42:28 GMT
He isn't one. He's a box to box midfielder. He doesn't do much of the off the ball stuff a good DM needs to do. And yet he isn't anywhere close to being good enough in an attacking sense to be played as a box to box midfielder. I think Nzonzi's role in the team is becoming less justifiable by the week. He isn't great defensively and he's utterly clueless going forward. I said it in the summer we needed to spend big money (or smart money) on a top quality powerhouse centre mid who can drive play forward with urgency. This area is a serious concern. We aren't good enough to carry midfielders. Right now Whelan is outperforming Nzonzi on a weekly basis (which I can't believe I'm saying). Now we're at last getting to the point. By all accounts he's not a ball winner like whelan and he's got a shocking shot on him so not great at going forward and chipping in with goals. I just don't get his role. in his defence he's done better in the last couple of games and ran the most distance of any stoke player yesterday. He just needs to dominate and dictate a game of football. |
|
|
|
Post by potterspele on Sept 14, 2014 13:57:32 GMT
I'm not sure Whelan and Crouch were much at fault yesterday. I'm more concerned that we still haven't learned to find a way through deep, defensive systems. If you were to point the finger anywhere I'd say Moses, Bojan and Walters didn't supply enough incisive balls; excepting one or two hopeful headers we didn't really create any decent chances. I think Adam and/or Ireland would have asked more questions yesterday.
I think those criticising N'Zonzi are a bit harsh. When he gets the chance to break through the middle he can carry the ball 40-50 yards with no one near him which no other player (except diouf apparently!) can do. That was crucial against man city it's just that in the games like yesterday I think his contribution can be overlooked a bit because he can't get the space to do what he's best at. He certainly didn't play badly yesterday.
|
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Sept 14, 2014 14:01:57 GMT
I'm not sure Whelan and Crouch were much at fault yesterday. I'm more concerned that we still haven't learned to find a way through deep, defensive systems. If you were to point the finger anywhere I'd say Moses, Bojan and Walters didn't supply enough incisive balls; excepting one or two hopeful headers we didn't really create any decent chances. I think Adam and/or Ireland would have asked more questions yesterday. I think those criticising N'Zonzi are a bit harsh. When he gets the chance to break through the middle he can carry the ball 40-50 yards with no one near him which no other player (except diouf apparently!) can do. That was crucial against man city it's just that in the games like yesterday I think his contribution can be overlooked a bit because he can't get the space to do what he's best at. He certainly didn't play badly yesterday. when you say can't do you mean can't or not able to. Aren't good players supposed to find and engineer the space to operate? |
|
|
|
Post by potterspele on Sept 14, 2014 14:11:07 GMT
It's less a question of ability and more about situation. If he's good at running through space in the centre then unfortunately you can't do that if the opposing team cut off all space there. I also think he's great at recycling possession and moving it left to right which he did plenty of yesterday. He also covered a ton of ground in the process. I think it's just harsh to criticise him for not being this dynamic ball player when that just isn't his game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miles Offside on Sept 14, 2014 17:07:24 GMT
As much as I like the big fella, Crouch just hasn't got enough goals in him (March since his last league goal), we play a system that revolves around him, he gets knocked off the ball far too easily, for a player of his height he loses more headers than he wins, has no pace or strength on the ball and never seems to be in the right place at the right time, his knock downs and flick-ons rarely find a Stoke player and we start to look predictable and one dimensional with Crouch in the side. As for Walters he'd be a bench warmer at the most, again no pace fist touch of an Elephant, doesn't have the ability to beat someone on the wings and again is a non scoring forward, no denying his effort and work-rate but we need more than that. Can anyone say that Walters is the best player we have to fill the right wing/midfield role? Whelan he's ben a great servant and not always everyone's favourite player, but we need some creativity and not another defensive midfielder in the team, again a lack of goals from him in midfield, some people say we play well when Whelan plays well, if that's the case then he isn't playing well consistently enough, again a place on the bench would be the best solution IMO. I like all 3 players and I'd be happy for them to stay at Stoke but we need players that can open up stubborn defences and take their chances when they get them, Walters and Crouch played well in the cup game against Portsmouth but should have both had a hat trick apiece but were guilty of fucking up guilt edged chances and that was against a struggling league 2 side, Crouch has carried this worrying trend on in his league form and we need to start playing a different style so we can get the best out of the players we've bought in. Gouranga. We've got a player who can open up defences. He's named Charlie Adam. But Hughes is reluctant to play him. He prefers the other players he's brought in to open up defences, but they aren't doing it. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 17:19:44 GMT
I'm not sure Whelan is the problem.
The attacking 4, whoever selected, need to take more responsibility and they simply have to do better.
Walters on the right is an absolute waste of time. Play him through the middle or not at all. The two wide spaces should be occupied by Arnie, Moses or Assaidi (and Odemwingie when he's fit again).
I think there's an argument to be made that we're missing Ireland at the moment. Bojan still hasn't hit top gear, although he looks promising in flashes. Crouch doesn't score enough but his link up play is better than anybody else's on the books. Diouf still needs to offer more, despite the wonder goal at Man City.
We're just not ruthless enough in the final third. NZonzi went on a barnstorming run yesterday and then didn't even manage to hit the target, despite being under no pressure whatsoever. I recall Bojan only having one chance and it went straight at the keeper. Crouch should've scored that header first half but didn't even hit the target. Walters offered next to nothing.
We're simply not doing enough with our attacking play. It was evident against Villa, Hull and again against Leicester.
You could bring Huth in at the back but it would have no effect on our inadequacies at the other end of the field.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 17:38:21 GMT
One of the main problems with our two central midfield players is that they slow the play down all the time,sometimes the ball just needs shifting quickly. I lost count of how many times Moses was completely free in the first half and neither Whelan nor Nzonzi moved it quickly enough.
I have no problem with Whelan he does a job as a defensive shield but as others have said I fail to see what Nzonzi is supposed to do, he's more Koulo Toure than Yaya Toure. I feel a bit sorry for Sidwell to be honest, he's a genuine box to box player and he has a goal in him and we are hardly blessed in that department are we?
|
|
|
|
Post by ParaPsych on Sept 14, 2014 17:43:20 GMT
N'Zonzi supposed to be a defensive midfielder, he's certainly not an attacking midfielder. Gouranga. He's a box to box midfielder, like I said. I'm not sure you can be counted as box to box when you hardly ever venture into one of the boxes. Isn't he actually just a traditional, you know, midfielder? No extra classification required. |
|
|
|
Post by fca47 on Sept 14, 2014 18:01:12 GMT
Whelan does what he is supposed to do, but Nzonzi doesn't seem to be attacking or defending. He has ability, but only shows it in an attacking sense about once per game. Which isn't good enough, especially in home games.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 18:03:55 GMT
Yep let's get rid of whelan who was man of the match and also crouch who was the only player to have any attempts at goal. Great idea
|
|
|
|
Post by baltipiesmuggler on Sept 14, 2014 18:05:43 GMT
That run in the first half from Nzonzi proved to me that he needs to make a nuisance of himself far more often. When he runs at midfielders/defenders they shit themselves, so why on earth he slows it down and takes an age sometimes is beyond me.
Trust the man behind you Steven, get your head up, and fucking run at them.
Oh and let someone else do the shooting.
|
|
|
|
Post by adamsson on Sept 14, 2014 18:24:41 GMT
Yep let's get rid of whelan who was man of the match and also crouch who was the only player to have any attempts at goal. Great idea Crouch 4 attempts none on target so who the other 20 off target and 4 on target? Actually didn't think Crouch was bad yesterday or Whelan but playing two holding midfielders against a team who will only plan to defend and break if they get a chance is what I am not sure about, Adam (or Ireland) in central mid-field with Whelan or N'zonzi makes more sense when we are trying to batter down defences. Wouldn't try it away or against the top teams though. |
|
