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Post by upthefud on Sept 2, 2014 0:06:30 GMT
About trying to keep players who aren't starting happy?
Sidwell, Bojan, Adam, Arnie Cameron ect won't be happy with a place on the bench. A few poor results and things could soon go tits up.
We really needed to offload a few players this window to accommodate the new signings, and I'm not talking about Wilko or Palacios either.
Ireland/Adam should have gone, 3 players for one position is too much.
Cameron/Wilson/Huth should have gone for the same reason
The five I've mentioned are players I admire as well but we need to trim the squad.
For me outside of Bego and Shawcross no-one is indispensable anymore
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Post by retired1 on Sept 2, 2014 0:08:23 GMT
Every club in the division has the same issue, so what?
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Post by gothicstokelover on Sept 2, 2014 0:12:31 GMT
Its just the process of evolution....In the past alot of players would join us because they would have a chance to prove themselves, now were developing into a squad that has depth, and not only able apply a different number of tactics on the field but also means in the cup we can field a decent squad and still keep power back for the league games.
Nope no problem from my perspective.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 2, 2014 0:13:09 GMT
About trying to keep players who aren't starting happy? Sidwell, Bojan, Adam, Arnie Cameron ect won't be happy with a place on the bench. A few poor results and things could soon go tits up. We really needed to offload a few players this window to accommodate the new signings, and I'm not talking about Wilko or Palacios either. Ireland/Adam should have gone, 3 players for one position is too much. Cameron/Wilson/Huth should have gone for the same reason The five I've mentioned are players I admire as well but we need to trim the squad. For me outside of Bego and Shawcross no-one is indispensable anymore
I have to admit I'm surprised that one or two of the 'names' didn't go, even with Ireland and Odemwingie out injured, one of them isn't even going to make the bench against Leicester but hey they're not daft, they knew this scenario was on the horizon and if they were really worried about it, then they could have taken the opportunity to move on before the window shut.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 0:13:10 GMT
Bojan and Arnie will be on the pitch much more than the bench.
With Bojan it's a case of bedding him into the prem over time.
With Arnie we have seen before he is a slow starter but I have no doubts he will soon be running the show again
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Post by upthefud on Sept 2, 2014 0:18:44 GMT
I'm not denying strength in depth isn't important but there's a limit. Think of the wages for one, let alone Sparky trying to keep them all involved and content.
Look at Spurs last season, look at QPR when Hughes was there. Now I'm not doom mongering but those of you turning a blind eye obviously can't see that sometimes it's a problem.
I think Hull have the same problem as us, they bought for Europe so going out fucked them. Pretty much every other side in our league has a much more manageable squad.
We can't even loan these top players out because none of them will want to play in the champ.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 2, 2014 0:18:49 GMT
Bojan and Arnie will be on the pitch much more than the bench. With Bojan it's a case of bedding him into the prem over time. With Arnie we have seen before he is a slow starter but I have no doubts he will soon be running the show again
Equally though, two of Cameron, Adam, Walters and (maybe) Huth aren't going to even make the bench against Leicester and once Ireland returns, then three of them won't.
It's these players which are the ones who are going to seriously be feeling the pinch from now on.
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Post by upthefud on Sept 2, 2014 0:21:12 GMT
Every club in the division has the same issue, so what? Begovic Bardsley Shawcross Wilson Pieters N'Zonzi Whelan Moses Bojan Assaidi Diouf Butland Wilkinson Huth Texeria Muniesa Sidwell Cameron Arnautovic Adam/Ireland Walters Crouch (Butland out on loan, Wilki and Tex will be alright) How the fuck do Stoke City keep them happy? |
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Post by gothicstokelover on Sept 2, 2014 0:28:18 GMT
I'm pretty sure Hughes would of told any new players coming into squad his intentions of playing time...If any players were to cause a fuss it will be the "old Guard"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 0:29:25 GMT
About trying to keep players who aren't starting happy? Sidwell, Bojan, Adam, Arnie Cameron ect won't be happy with a place on the bench. A few poor results and things could soon go tits up. We really needed to offload a few players this window to accommodate the new signings, and I'm not talking about Wilko or Palacios either. Ireland/Adam should have gone, 3 players for one position is too much. Cameron/Wilson/Huth should have gone for the same reason The five I've mentioned are players I admire as well but we need to trim the squad. For me outside of Bego and Shawcross no-one is indispensable anymore Firstly, a few poor results, and the players we're worried about keeping happy will be in the team, and secondly, three players for one position isn't too much when one of them is injury-prone, one is suspension-prone, and all three bring something different to the table. Already this season, we've lost three players to injury; one for a couple of week, one for a bit longer, and another presumably for much longer. We've also seen that a team that can't beat relegation candidates playing a certain way can beat the champions playing another way. We're going to need different players for different scenarios, but we now have a manager prepared to make changes depending on the situation. Your worries are not totally without foundation. There'll probably be two or three players who will get frustrated as the season goes on, but at least they know that if they get their chance, they'll keep the shirt until they no longer deserve it. Balance just about right as far as I'm concerned. |
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Post by discokaraoke on Sept 2, 2014 0:30:52 GMT
I'm not denying strength in depth isn't important but there's a limit. Think of the wages for one, let alone Sparky trying to keep them all involved and content. Look at Spurs last season, look at QPR when Hughes was there. Now I'm not doom mongering but those of you turning a blind eye obviously can't see that sometimes it's a problem. I think Hull have the same problem as us, they bought for Europe so going out fucked them. Pretty much every other side in our league has a much more manageable squad. We can't even loan these top players out because none of them will want to play in the champ. I can sum this post up with two words. Manchester city. What utter drivel, we have a great squad for a club our size, and a squad pretty easy enough to keep everyone on their toes. Competition is an absolute must. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 1:00:48 GMT
Not forgetting the January transfer window, of which by then if certain players are unhappy, they can either ask for a move or perhaps demand one if they're really unhappy.
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Post by burberrybassist on Sept 2, 2014 1:15:57 GMT
There's gonna be a few loans in the coming days and months surely
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 2, 2014 1:16:23 GMT
A couple of sales could have unbalanced us, but it hasn't happened.
We're better bomb proofed for the Prem and Cups this time.
Flexibility and depth to deal with injuries, suspensions and different formations/tactics.
The injuries to Huth, Bego, Arnie and Assaidi, and the suspensions of Wilson and Whelan made us look terribly vulnerable over xmas last year. We're better prepared this year with the ability to ease in and perhaps experiment with Bojan, Assaidi, Muniesa and Tex etc.
Most of the business was conducted calmly before the season started, with targets for areas of deficit.
It's not like we've got to get a hastily collected bunch of unbalanced 'names' to gel now with the season underway.
I've been impressed with how we've moved players on with little fuss too, and imagine there'll be some more loan movements to add to Ness.
I'm proud of the more planned frugal approach, we've always had a {relatively} sensible wage structure.
While I reckon some of the increased Prem money has been used to keep the jewels here, {rather than on transfers} I can't imagine that's changed massively.
Wonder where we rank re wage bill now, we always hovered around 14th highest wage bill.
Probably the lowest transfer {even net} spenders over the last two seasons.
Good times. I'm not fretting.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 2, 2014 1:35:33 GMT
A couple of sales could have unbalanced us, but it hasn't happened. We're better bomb proofed for the Prem and Cups this time. Flexibility and depth to deal with injuries, suspensions and different formations/tactics. The injuries to Huth, Bego, Arnie and Assaidi, and the suspensions of Wilson and Whelan made us look terribly vulnerable over xmas last year. We're better prepared this year with the ability to ease in and perhaps experiment with Bojan, Assaidi, Muniesa and Tex etc. Most of the business was conducted calmly before the season started, with targets for areas of deficit. It's not like we've got to get a hastily collected bunch of unbalanced 'names' to gel now with the season underway. I've been impressed with how we've moved players on with little fuss too, and imagine there'll be some more loan movements to add to Ness. I'm proud of the more planned frugal approach, we've always had a {relatively} sensible wage structure. While I reckon some of the increased Prem money has been used to keep the jewels here, {rather than on transfers} I can't imagine that's changed massively. Wonder where we rank re wage bill now, we always hovered around 14th highest wage bill. Probably the lowest transfer {even net} spenders over the last two seasons. Good times. I'm not fretting.
I agree with every single of word of that whole heartedly.
However that's looking at it completely from 'our' perspective and I'll be surprised if a couple of names from Walters/Cameron/Adam and (maybe) Huth aren't going to be pretty pissed off before too long when they're not even making the bench - not that I'll think it will be a problem to the club overall.
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mf37
Lads'n'Dads
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Post by mf37 on Sept 2, 2014 2:16:44 GMT
Surely the depth will come in handy when dealing with injuries. And, as Hughes showed with the game against Portsmouth, Leaguge and FA Cup games will give players a chance to compete for a bigger, or even starting, role.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 2, 2014 2:20:01 GMT
If we are to progress then it's about managing a squad and the collected egos.
It seems so far that Hughes and co. have the skill and credibility not to piss players off.
There were instances last season {perhaps through necessity} where I thought Huth, Cameron, Walters, Pieters, Crouch were over used {and even Ryan may have benefitted from less early Cup use.}
Indeed it's a balancing act, and different characters will respond differently.
There may be players who give a better tune with more selective use.
Last season was the 'season of assessment', most of the 'kicks up the arse'/motivational 'rests' were forced through injury and suspensions rather than tactical decisions.
Looking forward to see what transpires this season.
I have a romantic vision that our management team, the medical and training set up, and the quality of football and colleagues etc contribute to a happy camp. Yes game time is obviously the most important thing, but there are six or so other days in the week. It seems Hughesy is making them use their heads as well as their hearts.
None of us know what will happen, be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I don't fear an uprising from the names you mention, though inevitably there'll be more players leaving through 'natural wastage' in windows to come.
I like that heady mix of 'Stoke' characters and new skill and speed
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 2, 2014 4:33:59 GMT
Let's just hope we have a good run in the cups so there can be some rotation in the starting 11. But I believe we will see a couple of departures in January and that would also make sense
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 2, 2014 4:34:19 GMT
Let's just hope we have a good run in the cups so there can be some rotation in the starting 11. But I believe we will see a couple of departures in January and that would also make sense
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Post by pedro23 on Sept 2, 2014 5:00:39 GMT
About trying to keep players who aren't starting happy? Sidwell, Bojan, Adam, Arnie Cameron ect won't be happy with a place on the bench. A few poor results and things could soon go tits up. We really needed to offload a few players this window to accommodate the new signings, and I'm not talking about Wilko or Palacios either. Ireland/Adam should have gone, 3 players for one position is too much. Cameron/Wilson/Huth should have gone for the same reason The five I've mentioned are players I admire as well but we need to trim the squad. For me outside of Bego and Shawcross no-one is indispensable anymore All the top 10 Premiership sides, and some of the others will have the same amount of cover that we have. Playing in this league plus cups will give players game time. That is assuming the Manager is fair with his players and gives them a chance, which I believe MH is. What would cause problems is if the Manager is picking his favourites even when they may not be playing well, that would definitely cause unrest. It is just that we are not used to having strength in depth in our squads. Which ever way you look at it, we will have a strong bench for each game, even with some injuries which are bound to happen. The top Managers are all able to rotate and still keep harmony, and I believe we have a top manager. The guys who will regularly not even make the bench will be the ones we can't loan out in the next few weeks. |
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Post by geoffscott on Sept 2, 2014 5:46:09 GMT
About trying to keep players who aren't starting happy? Sidwell, Bojan, Adam, Arnie Cameron ect won't be happy with a place on the bench. A few poor results and things could soon go tits up. We really needed to offload a few players this window to accommodate the new signings, and I'm not talking about Wilko or Palacios either. Ireland/Adam should have gone, 3 players for one position is too much. Cameron/Wilson/Huth should have gone for the same reason The five I've mentioned are players I admire as well but we need to trim the squad.
For me outside of Bego and Shawcross no-one is indispensable anymore I disagree with your concerns and I disagree with your idea that we need to trim the squad of a few quality players. We have moved on, since the days of a single plan A and nothing to back it up, we have moved on from the days of square pegs in round holes, we have moved on from the days of treating a dozen games a season as 'bonus games' where we were told we don't really deserve to be on the same pitch as the opposition. We are now a premier league club with ambition, progressive thinking and a management team with tactical awareness and intelligence to adapt from game to game and during games. The players at the club will know that and understand that and I would say any player with a bit of ambition and belief in their own ability will not want to be leaving Stoke City on loan or permanently. We are only 3 premier league players into the season and 3 of the 5 players you mention as 'won't be happy on the bench' have already been in the starting 11, Charlie Adam has played in all 3 games and started the cup game, Cameron started the cup game in his preferred position but then got injured. The first 3 league games have seen starts for 14 players and game time for 17 of the squad. Add the league cup fixture and 20 players have started a game with 21 players seeing action on the pitch. You only have to look at the league cup game and then see that away at Man City, Walters and Crouch are in the starting 11 to understand how professionally the management team at Stoke City now operate. We've already lost Odenwinge for the season, Cameron, Walters and Sidwell have picked up injuries and the majority of the squad are now away on international duty, so chances of one or two picking up injuries is quite possible. I'm chuffed to bits with the progressive thinking of the current management team at Stoke City and chuffed to bits with the balance and quality of the squad. |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 2, 2014 5:49:28 GMT
Maybe more worrying - where will the opportunities for our young players come from? The cup has become a place to try out these youngsters, but it looks like we'll need it to keep our first team squad in game time.
On that basis I'd be comfortable with thinning the squad out a little.
But, on the whole, not the worst problem we've had at Stoke over the years!
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Post by apb1 on Sept 2, 2014 6:41:50 GMT
Let's hope we don't go out of the League Cup too soon.
Why are subs limited to 7 now? Could easily have the whole squad a la World Cup...
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 2, 2014 7:44:00 GMT
It doesn't worry me at all I'm delighted with it. Hugheso has plenty of options to deal with different kinds of opposition. That's what you aspire to.
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Post by foster on Sept 2, 2014 8:09:22 GMT
Hughes has another 6 months to figure out what best formations and tactics suit the existing and new players. 6 months gives him time to blood them into the team and become accustomed to the rigours of the Premier League.
I expect that a couple of players (perhaps surprise ones) will find themselves completely excluded and be sold in January.
Just to make the point. I don't think we'll have many issues with players becoming bad eggs as I believe the plan is to offload a couple in January anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 8:30:38 GMT
There's almost a fear or inference that some of our players are too good for our bench and therefore they will get disillusioned and want a move away. I would say that that is nonsense and they are here to succeed and prove their worth. There are are several players who need to resurrect their careers and cannot live on past reputations or glories. I am sure that those to which it applies are aware of this and are here to win . There is the odd exception of course , but they will be dispensed with in due course by Mark.
We should not go looking for problems that do not exist. We can easily afford the squad that we have assembled and we have only spent £3.4 million in this window which more than allows us to overspend somewhat on wages , which I would suggest is the right way to go.
We will undoubtedly make a healthy profit at the end of the season and before long our expansion plans for the stadium will come to fruition.
We need to stop fretting....We have god and St Peter on our side.
Amen.
mumf
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Post by Chrissyd33 on Sept 2, 2014 9:18:02 GMT
It's not about stoke keeping them happy it's about them keeping stoke happy competition for places is a healthy problem to have
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Post by foster on Sept 2, 2014 9:22:22 GMT
Aside from keeping them happy, what about the fact that we've got so many possible combinations it could take ages for Hughes to figure out which ones best. We've got a number of offensively minded midfielders now but looking at the first two games of the season it doesn't look like we're close to nailing down which ones are best placed for the starting 11.
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Post by unknown182 on Sept 2, 2014 10:04:43 GMT
Cameron just retweeted this
"Be strong enough to let go, and patient enough to wait for what you deserve."
I'm guessing there were offers of first team football elsewhere but we turned the offers down.
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Post by lostinafrenchbar on Sept 2, 2014 10:06:34 GMT
Cameron just retweeted this "Be strong enough to let go, and patient enough to wait for what you deserve." I'm guessing there were offers of first team football elsewhere but we turned the offers down. That, or he was standing at the check out in Aldi at the time. |
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