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Post by Gods on Jul 31, 2014 9:44:33 GMT
Not literally of course, that would not be allowed.
But after the medical, is there any point on continuing to hawk Wilson around or do we take this one on the chin and just accept we have 1 more season from the Honduran and do what ever we can to tease some meaningful action out of him?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 9:47:13 GMT
Tell you what. We got well and truly stitched up with him!
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Post by arniepieinthesky on Jul 31, 2014 9:48:41 GMT
I guess we basically paid £18m for Crouchy
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 31, 2014 9:48:53 GMT
Not literally of course, that would not be allowed. But after the medical, is there any point on continuing to hawk Wilson around or do we take this one on the chin and just accept we have 1 more season from the Honduran and do what ever we can to tease some meaningful action out of him? Think we are stuck with him, at least with 5 new additions he has extra boots to clean
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Post by Gods on Jul 31, 2014 10:03:56 GMT
I guess we basically paid £18m for Crouchy I understand why many folks say that but its not really fair on Crouchy, it wasn't his fault that the deal was shaped in this way.
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 31, 2014 10:07:15 GMT
I guess we basically paid £18m for Crouchy I understand why many folks say that but its not really fair on Crouchy, it wasn't his fault that the deal was shaped in this way. And put it this way £18mill for Crouch is still a better deal than Borini for £14 mil
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Post by metalhead on Jul 31, 2014 10:35:39 GMT
I mean, could we loan him out for three months with an option to buy at the end? 500k buy out price? Then if he plays okay for some Championship team, they can sign him in January. His contract expires at the end of the upcoming season anyway so...
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Post by stokester1989 on Jul 31, 2014 10:39:36 GMT
Who is going want him? He's putting the pounds back on. He has just been a leach to the club sucking out a wage
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Post by stokester1989 on Jul 31, 2014 10:40:07 GMT
Who is going want him? He's putting the pounds back on. He has just been a leach to the club sucking out a wage
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Post by stokester1989 on Jul 31, 2014 10:40:52 GMT
Who is going want him? He's putting the pounds back on. He has just been a leach to the club sucking out a wage
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Post by arniepieinthesky on Jul 31, 2014 10:41:00 GMT
I understand why many folks say that but its not really fair on Crouchy, it wasn't his fault that the deal was shaped in this way. And put it this way £18mill for Crouch is still a better deal than Borini for £14 mil I'm not knocking Crouch, I wouldn't knock a player based on their transfer fee as they don't control that part of the deal. I've always liked Crouchy
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Post by stokester1989 on Jul 31, 2014 10:41:46 GMT
Who is going want him? He's putting the pounds back on. He has just been a leach to the club sucking out a wage
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 10:42:08 GMT
I understand why many folks say that but its not really fair on Crouchy, it wasn't his fault that the deal was shaped in this way. And put it this way £18mill for Crouch is still a better deal than Borini for £14 mil wouldn't say that mate. Borini got 7 goals last year in the Prem (Crouch has got 7 and 8 last 2 seasons) so about the same as Crouch and also has the benefit of not being 30 when he was signed by Sunderland (which is looking likely again now). in the long term (if Borini continues to get about the same goal tally or higher than Crouch) 14m for Borini is a far better deal than "18m" for Crouch (or even the 10mill we actually paid) as they'll be getting a lot more years out of the player than we'll have got out of Crouch...and if he moves on, Borini will actually have a resale value, something we were never ever going to have with Crouch. i love Crouch but it was a daft thing to say really. RE: WP, personally i'd just buy him out of his contract now and fuck him off. we need to free up some space and get some wages off the books for FFP and no-one seems to want any of our players. we can't just sit around waiting for all their contracts to expire or, if we do, then this could be our last productive transfer window for a while!
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Post by JetBlack on Jul 31, 2014 10:43:34 GMT
I hope not, I've not been impressed with him at all.
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 31, 2014 10:46:21 GMT
And put it this way £18mill for Crouch is still a better deal than Borini for £14 mil wouldn't say that mate. Borini got 7 goals last year in the Prem (Crouch has got 7 and 8 last 2 seasons) so about the same as Crouch and also has the benefit of not being 30 when he was signed by Sunderland (which is looking likely again now). in the long term (if Borini continues to get about the same goal tally or higher than Crouch) 14m for Borini is a far better deal than "18m" for Crouch (or even the 10mill we actually paid) as they'll be getting a lot more years out of the player than we'll have got out of Crouch...and if he moves on, Borini will actually have a resale value, something we were never ever going to have with Crouch. i love Crouch but it was a daft thing to say really. RE: WP, personally i'd just buy him out of his contract now and fuck him off. we need to free up some space and get some wages off the books for FFP and no-one seems to want any of our players. we can't just sit around waiting for all their contracts to expire or, if we do, then this could be our last productive transfer window for a while! What we got with Crouch was a player who could hold the ball up, if not directly he was involved in virtually every goal we scored
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Post by salopstick on Jul 31, 2014 10:51:02 GMT
do managers still make money out of transfer fees etc?
id love to know who made what out of the wilson/crouch deal
sandra?
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Post by salopstick on Jul 31, 2014 10:54:45 GMT
And put it this way £18mill for Crouch is still a better deal than Borini for £14 mil wouldn't say that mate. Borini got 7 goals last year in the Prem (Crouch has got 7 and 8 last 2 seasons) so about the same as Crouch and also has the benefit of not being 30 when he was signed by Sunderland (which is looking likely again now). in the long term (if Borini continues to get about the same goal tally or higher than Crouch) 14m for Borini is a far better deal than "18m" for Crouch (or even the 10mill we actually paid) as they'll be getting a lot more years out of the player than we'll have got out of Crouch...and if he moves on, Borini will actually have a resale value, something we were never ever going to have with Crouch. i love Crouch but it was a daft thing to say really. RE: WP, personally i'd just buy him out of his contract now and fuck him off. we need to free up some space and get some wages off the books for FFP and no-one seems to want any of our players. we can't just sit around waiting for all their contracts to expire or, if we do, then this could be our last productive transfer window for a while! borini will not get sunderland the exposure crouch got stoke - and that is worth £ to the club the signing of crouch also helps to attract other players. it was the marquee signing the club needed at the time. so a good deal for the club crouch has been one of our best prem signings over all
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 10:56:20 GMT
wouldn't say that mate. Borini got 7 goals last year in the Prem (Crouch has got 7 and 8 last 2 seasons) so about the same as Crouch and also has the benefit of not being 30 when he was signed by Sunderland (which is looking likely again now). in the long term (if Borini continues to get about the same goal tally or higher than Crouch) 14m for Borini is a far better deal than "18m" for Crouch (or even the 10mill we actually paid) as they'll be getting a lot more years out of the player than we'll have got out of Crouch...and if he moves on, Borini will actually have a resale value, something we were never ever going to have with Crouch. i love Crouch but it was a daft thing to say really. RE: WP, personally i'd just buy him out of his contract now and fuck him off. we need to free up some space and get some wages off the books for FFP and no-one seems to want any of our players. we can't just sit around waiting for all their contracts to expire or, if we do, then this could be our last productive transfer window for a while! What we got with Crouch was a player who could hold the ball up, if not directly he was involved in virtually every goal we scored not denying that but he was 30 when we signed him, Borini is 23 and scores about the same as Crouch so to say Crouch was a better buy is daft full stop. Borini almost single handedly kept sunderland up with some of his goals towards the end last year so it's not as if he's some shitty, crappy player who has no ability. yes, 14 mill is over the top but so was 10 mill for a 30 year old who's only ever reached double figures in the Prem 3 times in 14 years. yes, he can hold it up but signing him and playing him up top on his own was also one of the main reasons we scored so few in the first place as he has (and never has had) absolutely no movement whatsoever. not blaming Crouch for that, but for Pulis to spend 10 mill on a 30 year old and then not play him in the way that he's played at every other club was detrimental to our attacking force for the best part of 3 years. he's worked hard for us since he's come and weighed in and done his best but we could have spent that money on a player who actually does get in behind the defence, make space and create more goals than Crouch's ability allows him to.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 10:57:11 GMT
wouldn't say that mate. Borini got 7 goals last year in the Prem (Crouch has got 7 and 8 last 2 seasons) so about the same as Crouch and also has the benefit of not being 30 when he was signed by Sunderland (which is looking likely again now). in the long term (if Borini continues to get about the same goal tally or higher than Crouch) 14m for Borini is a far better deal than "18m" for Crouch (or even the 10mill we actually paid) as they'll be getting a lot more years out of the player than we'll have got out of Crouch...and if he moves on, Borini will actually have a resale value, something we were never ever going to have with Crouch. i love Crouch but it was a daft thing to say really. RE: WP, personally i'd just buy him out of his contract now and fuck him off. we need to free up some space and get some wages off the books for FFP and no-one seems to want any of our players. we can't just sit around waiting for all their contracts to expire or, if we do, then this could be our last productive transfer window for a while! borini will not get sunderland the exposure crouch got stoke - and that is worth £ to the club the signing of crouch also helps to attract other players. it was the marquee signing the club needed at the time. so a good deal for the club crouch has been one of our best prem signings over all Sunderland don't need the same exposure as we did though and i haven't once said i have a problem with what Crouch has done for us. but to say that signing a 30 year old who was then going to played in a way he never had before (basically misused given what he's good at) who would never have a resale value is a better idea than signing a 23 year old who scores as many goals, was just as instrumental and influential to Sunderland last season as Crouch has been to us and will have a resale value is ridiculous.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 31, 2014 10:59:25 GMT
thats true mick and hence crouch being a better deal for 18m than borini for 14m
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 11:02:01 GMT
thats true mick and hence crouch being a better deal for 18m than borini for 14m but if we're using the 18 mill idea then you also have to take into account both Crouch's AND Palacios' wages as well and the fact we have been left with a useless lump of shit on the bench for 3 years who we now can't shift and so have to continue paying wages for. hardly great business that really
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Post by salopstick on Jul 31, 2014 11:03:22 GMT
not great business no but neither is borini for 14m
on the whole id take our deal over theirs
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 11:11:25 GMT
not great business no but neither is borini for 14m on the whole id take our deal over theirs if i was pushed then, 3 years ago, if you'd given me a choice of 10mill for a 30 year old who'd be misused and would mean also having to take on a player for another 8 mill who would never be used by us and having to pay their wages as well or a young 23 year old, mobile forward who will get us as many goals for 14 mill and we could sell on for a profit in a few years then i'd have taken the latter. Crouch could attract other players because of his name yes, but (and taking into account how few goals were scored back then) having a player in the side that could get goals and also create space to allow others in to score as well therefore probably leading to better results would also have attracted players as well and helped to rid us of a reputation that we're still only just starting to get rid of now! 10 mill for a 30 year old who scores around 7 or 8 a season and restricts our attacking play or 14 mill for a 23 year old who scores 7 or 8 and opens up defences to enable other attacking talent to get in behind as well?? no brainer!
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Post by salopstick on Jul 31, 2014 11:21:01 GMT
not great business no but neither is borini for 14m on the whole id take our deal over theirs if i was pushed then, 3 years ago, if you'd given me a choice of 10mill for a 30 year old who'd be misused and would mean also having to take on a player who would never be used by us and having to pay their wages as well or a young 23 year old, mobile forward who will get as many goals then i'd have taken the latter. if my aunty had bollocks she would be my uncle hindsight is a wonderful thing if you told me 3 years ago we would take a proven premier league player who has scored goals everywhere, ex england international who would raise the profile of the club over a young unproven italian than id taken crouch pulis cannot be blamed for wilson not working out, however what is criminal with crouch is you dont shoehorn him into our system at the time, you have to change the system which pulis didnt really do. oh and take him to valencia
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Post by Linx on Jul 31, 2014 11:26:57 GMT
Crouch's age is a bit of a red herring, surely? He is into his fourth season with us and he is pretty much the same player we bought back in 2011. Okay, he won't have much resale value but he's probably good enough for us to see out his top flight career. A younger top flight English striker bought back in 2011 would have been a lot more expensive and would have probably moved on by now. Pace is the first thing that goes with age, and that has never been part of Crouch's game, as Hughes has readily acknowledged in his stated desire to keep him part of things. Add to the fact that he fits like a glove into the Stoke ethos and he and his missus bring us only good publicity: £10 million (or even 18) is well spent IMHO.
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Post by larstoke on Jul 31, 2014 11:27:26 GMT
Flogging a dead horse
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 11:30:09 GMT
if i was pushed then, 3 years ago, if you'd given me a choice of 10mill for a 30 year old who'd be misused and would mean also having to take on a player who would never be used by us and having to pay their wages as well or a young 23 year old, mobile forward who will get as many goals then i'd have taken the latter. if my aunty had bollocks she would be my uncle hindsight is a wonderful thing if you told me 3 years ago we would take a proven premier league player who has scored goals everywhere, ex england international who would raise the profile of the club over a young unproven italian than id taken crouch pulis cannot be blamed for wilson not working out, however what is criminal with crouch is you dont shoehorn him into our system at the time, you have to change the system which pulis didnt really do. oh and take him to valencia yes hindsight is a wonderful thing for us but Pulis wasn't using hindsight was he? he was the one that brough them in so when he bought him he'd have 100% known in advance: 1) that he wasn't intending to use Crouch in the way he was at every other club and that he WAS going to shoehorn him into our system 2) he would also have known of WP's fitness, state of mind and ability levels and the likelihood of him being a regular (which you'd have expected for 8 mill). the fact that Pulis himself never even bothered to play him suggests that he was well beyond just the "Short of match fitness" stage and was never going to work out. he pushed on with it though simply because Tone gets a hard on for players and then all reasoning, logic and rationale flies out the window with him and he just agrees to whatever he needs to agree to to get the player in. don't get me wrong i'm not slating Crouch and not belittling what he's done for us, i just don't see how anyone can slag off Sunderland for bidding 14mill for Borini when we paid what we did for Crouch and Palacios given Crouch's age at the time and Palacios' utter shitness. it's hindsight to us but if Pulis didn't know all of the above in advance (given the fact that was his job) then he's seriously gone down in my estimation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 11:31:42 GMT
Crouch's age is a bit of a red herring, surely? He is into his fourth season with us and he is pretty much the same player we bought back in 2011. Okay, he won't have much resale value but he's probably good enough for us to see out his top flight career. A younger top flight English striker bought back in 2011 would have been a lot more expensive and would have probably moved on by now. Pace is the first thing that goes with age, and that has never been part of Crouch's game, as Hughes has readily acknowledged in his stated desire to keep him part of things. Add to the fact that he fits like a glove into the Stoke ethos and he and his missus bring us only good publicity: £10 million (or even 18) is well spent IMHO. Crouch and Palacios - 18 mill younger top flight Striker (Borini) - 14 mill
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Post by salopstick on Jul 31, 2014 11:35:30 GMT
Crouch's age is a bit of a red herring, surely? He is into his fourth season with us and he is pretty much the same player we bought back in 2011. Okay, he won't have much resale value but he's probably good enough for us to see out his top flight career. A younger top flight English striker bought back in 2011 would have been a lot more expensive and would have probably moved on by now. Pace is the first thing that goes with age, and that has never been part of Crouch's game, as Hughes has readily acknowledged in his stated desire to keep him part of things. Add to the fact that he fits like a glove into the Stoke ethos and he and his missus bring us only good publicity: £10 million (or even 18) is well spent IMHO. Crouch and Palacios - 18 mill younger top flight Striker (Borini) - 14 mill English
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 11:45:12 GMT
Crouch and Palacios - 18 mill younger top flight Striker (Borini) - 14 mill English yes i saw that in his post but why exactly would he have to be English anyway? did we only buy english players under Pulis at the time or something? even so...bought in 2012 for 7 million, Jay Rodriguez. there you go,young, English, scores more than Crouch and substantially less than Crouch and only just over a third of the price we paid for the Crouch/Palacios deal
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