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Post by foster on Jul 23, 2014 11:38:37 GMT
Can't Odemwingie do a job there? Anyway mate, you know that we would never get rid of that entire list, just a few of them would be good. yeah he can but i don't want him turning into a player like SJW was under Tone...just use him all over the pitch as and when required and then wonder why his form takes a downturn....and Hughes seems to prefer him playing wider than as a lone striker anyway. i have no issue with Jerome and Johnny going but i'd keep Crouch. Crouch represents something completely different to our game and could be useful if we need to change tactics mid game. i'd rather that than just think "Diouf isn't working so just shove on Jerome and carry on playing the same way exactly". be sad to see SJW leave though...great worker and does massive amounts of work backtracking which no-one notices and shores up the midfield to allow them to kick on.people always applaud Cameron for the way he pushes up but seem to neglect the fact that he's only allowed to do that because of the likes of SJW who give him the cover to afford him that attacking luxury. comes in for far far too much stick on here simply because he's apparently a forward and doesn't score often..no mitigation seems to be offered on here at all for the fact that he's played most of the last few years as a glorified bloody winger. having said that, i just don't see anywhere he can fit in anymore really (especially if we do get a recognised winger in as well)Admit it Mick, you'll be most upset because your role as Chair of the SJW fanclub will become obsolete. I'd also prefer to keep Crouch above the other two.
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Post by maine on Jul 23, 2014 11:38:41 GMT
Personally I'd be open to offers for either Wilson or (controversial this one) Pieters. Wilson is competent enough but do we really need him? Given the talents available in midfield now Muniesa is unlikely to stake a claim there. His defensive side is at the moment inferior to Pieters, but he's a better attacking full back. If Pieters was sold Wilson 'wouldn't let us down' as a backup if required short term.
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Post by foster on Jul 23, 2014 11:39:47 GMT
Personally I'd be open to offers for either Wilson or (controversial this one) Pieters. Wilson is competent enough but do we really need him? Given the talents available in midfield now Muniesa is unlikely to stake a claim there. His defensive side is at the moment inferior to Pieters, but he's a better attacking full back. If Pieters was sold Wilson 'wouldn't let us down' as a backup if required short term. I agree in that your post is controversial.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 23, 2014 11:40:27 GMT
Ireland was signed in Jan, his wage wont be a part of the 4mill will it? i presume it's based on a season to season basis or if not, then based on the financial year in which case his wage would have been included in the amounts already quoted for last year? anyone that can confirm? i'm looking at you Lakeland PotterI'm not sure it makes that much difference, Mick - as our financial year falls between seasons at the end of June. The other thing which makes me a bit cautious is that the latest Football Cub wage figures came out as a part of BET365 accounts when they were published. The Club's full accounts won't be published for at least another 6 months. I'm not an accountant so I'm not sure what difference this makes to anything! EDIT: Sidewards f****ing Sidewards (who comes from Sandbach but posts from Australia) knows a bit about accounting - he may have the answer.
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Post by cognacsmoker on Jul 23, 2014 11:49:23 GMT
be sad to see SJW leave though...great worker and does massive amounts of work backtracking which no-one notices and shores up the midfield to allow them to kick on.people always applaud Cameron for the way he pushes up but seem to neglect the fact that he's only allowed to do that because of the likes of SJW who give him the cover to afford him that attacking luxury. comes in for far far too much stick on here simply because he's apparently a forward and doesn't score often..no mitigation seems to be offered on here at all for the fact that he's played most of the last few years as a glorified bloody winger. having said that, i just don't see anywhere he can fit in anymore really (especially if we do get a recognised winger in as well) Absolutely, his overall contribution is often overlooked. If he was a bit better at finishing I'd still be giving him regular game time, but if he stays, I would see him as a bench regular.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 23, 2014 12:57:03 GMT
deadwood? these players have signed for stoke city and are part of our squad. the hard work is bringing in players which mh and the team have done superbly.players who are out of the first team will be looking for first team players then you have players who do not feature but will happily run down their contract. that is just a fact of life and happens at every club. your thread title is ludicrous You might find the following dictionary quotation helpful See item 2 in that definition; it shows that the term deadwood used in this context is appropriate. On the other hand, sorry to say, "ludicrous" would seem a reasonable description of your reply. That or jibberish. I guess the absence of punctuation may be part of the problem. Anyway - to the point of the thread; getting rid of deadwood (according to definition 2 above) is incredibly hard and can be cripplingly expensive. Check out Portsmouth and factors that caused their downfall if you need convincing.
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Post by ricecake on Jul 23, 2014 14:00:59 GMT
Shea 50/50 think he has something to prove I would hope so. If he doesn't make it here, his chances of playing back in the US anytime soon are not too good. With what the MLS salary cap is currently at, the cost of transfer fees and the paycheck would make him a awfully expensive acquisition. Aside from a few USMNT call-ups in the last couple years, he's pretty much fallen off the soccer map in the US. Plus, if he did come back to the US and he didn't tear things up, he'd be carrying around a "washout" label until proven otherwise. (As much as I hated him in Dallas,) as long as he's here, I'm pulling for him to do well.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 23, 2014 14:36:05 GMT
Dead wood - people or things that are no longer useful or productive.
There must be plenty of crystal balls around Staffordshire. Impressed by how many seem to be so confident they know the way Hughes sees the players in his squad.
I've a feeling a few will be surprised and players like Crouch, Walters, Wilson etc. will prove to be both useful and productive over the coming season.
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Post by foster on Jul 23, 2014 14:40:08 GMT
Dead wood - people or things that are no longer useful or productive. There must be plenty of crystal balls around Staffordshire. Impressed by how many seem to be so confident they know the way Hughes sees the players in his squad. I've a feeling a few will be surprised and players like Crouch, Walters, Wilson etc. will prove to be both useful and productive over the coming season. I don't think Crouch will be here after the window closes. I think we'll look to reduce the wage bill and as a top end earner and at his age, I can see us making a deal. Saying that, I wouldn't put Wilson in my 'deadwood' pile. Nor Crouch either. They would be squad players that I may consider letting go if a decent offer came in.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jul 23, 2014 14:42:24 GMT
Deadwood or wonderful servants, however you see particular players we can only register 25 over 21 year olds so some must depart, permanently or on loan.
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Post by bolders on Jul 23, 2014 14:43:58 GMT
Wilson P and Crouch both can leave on a free at the end of this season I believe, if we do well say Europa league qualification we might give Crouch a one year extension then he might go to the usa.
Walters I'd keep he can be a useful addition to the squad and you know you will get 110% out of him, if we were to sell I wouldn't sell him to Palace and give them a better chance of staying up/higher position in the league.
Shotton will probably want to leave now anyway doesn't look likely he will get any game time at Stoke.
Both Ness and Shea will probably go out on loan
Edu I think we will just cut him free and let him go back to the usa for nothing.
Jerome has to go if he wants to play football, but I bet he doesn't want to drop his wage demands. ( Does anyone know how long he has left on his contract?)
Adam might start to look elsewhere come Jan if he hasn't played much
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Post by cognacsmoker on Jul 23, 2014 14:52:52 GMT
Deadwood or wonderful servants, however you see particular players we can only register 25 over 21 year olds so some must depart, permanently or on loan. Is the 25-man squad for all competitions?
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 23, 2014 14:54:25 GMT
"The club maintained its Premier League status after further investment in the playing squad, the annual wage bill rising to £60.4m (2013: £59.4m). "Following the new Premier League broadcast deal and the introduction of Financial Fair Play rules, the group is committed to reducing the club's reliance on the group and, over the medium term, to make it self-sufficient." Wonder exactly which wages that figure includes? OUT Pennant Ethers Kightly Kenwyne IN Ireland Odemwingie Teixeira Diouf Bojan Bardsley Sidwell Regardless, as mentioned, we must be well above a £4m rise at it stands, just based on the incomings in the last month. (Diouf could be nudging £3m on his own depending on how we've worked out his salary/signing-on fee?) We probably have banked on removing Palacios and Jerome at an absolute minimum (£2.5m-a-year?) But we have £7m in hand £4m for 2 years and have only used £1m so far, plus £20m of addiitonal TV money plus Warrior deal etc and we have lost Ethers, Pennant for 6 months, Assiadi, Giudetti, Edu already which will have put some money in the pot. So unlikely to be anywhere near the ceiling at this point, we have probably £30m to play with for Diouf, Bardsley, Sidwell, Bojan and Tex. .
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Post by foster on Jul 23, 2014 14:58:31 GMT
Wilson P and Crouch both can leave on a free at the end of this season I believe, if we do well say Europa league qualification we might give Crouch a one year extension then he might go to the usa. Walters I'd keep he can be a useful addition to the squad and you know you will get 110% out of him, if we were to sell I wouldn't sell him to Palace and give them a better chance of staying up/higher position in the league. Shotton will probably want to leave now anyway doesn't look likely he will get any game time at Stoke. Both Ness and Shea will probably go out on loan Edu I think we will just cut him free and let him go back to the usa for nothing. Jerome has to go if he wants to play football, but I bet he doesn't want to drop his wage demands. ( Does anyone know how long he has left on his contract?) Adam might start to look elsewhere come Jan if he hasn't played much Would be interesting to see how long all the players have on their contracts... surely someone out there has easy access to this kind of info?
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 23, 2014 15:00:38 GMT
Dead wood - people or things that are no longer useful or productive. There must be plenty of crystal balls around Staffordshire. Impressed by how many seem to be so confident they know the way Hughes sees the players in his squad. I've a feeling a few will be surprised and players like Crouch, Walters, Wilson etc. will prove to be both useful and productive over the coming season. I don't think Crouch will be here after the window closes. I think we'll look to reduce the wage bill and as a top end earner and at his age, I can see us making a deal. Saying that, I wouldn't put Wilson in my 'deadwood' pile. Nor Crouch either. They would be squad players that I may consider letting go if a decent offer came in. I think Crouch may well be one who Hughes feels he desperately needs to keep for another season. Given the major surgery that the squad has undergone in the last twelve months I think players like Crouch are essential to provide experience, character and a good example for the younger/new lads. Particularly those who are young and/or have a reputation for not settling in for one reason or another. Personally I think Walters, Crouch, Shawcross, Huth etc are all crucial in that sense. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hughes had used Crouch in his sales pitch to Bojan and others. He's well known around the world and is respected and rated as a decent footballer and person. Aside from all that I also think the likes of Crouch and even Walters will thrive with the addition of better players. I can understand Ness, Shea, Palacios etc being referred to as dead wood but not Walters, Crouch etc.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 23, 2014 15:01:50 GMT
`Depends how many players we need int he squad, not sure 25 is required given no European football. I would think
3 of Bego, Sorro, Butland (loan) Bachmann
Wilko, Bardsley, Shawcross, Huth, Wilson, Tex (maybe loan), Munieasa, Pieters, 7 or 8
N'Zonzi, Whelan, Sidwell, Cameron, Ireland, Adam, Ness (loan) 6
Anie, Wingy, Bojan, Assiadi or Redmond 4
Crouch, Diouf 2
gets us to 22 plus 2 on loan which should be enough and if we get the promised extra signing then I would expect at least one more out depending on position. So we would get rid of Shotton, Palacios, Jerome, Walters, Shea. But I supect Cameron, Wilson, Adam and Whelan are watching selection closely as the window deadline approaches and who knows where N'Zonzi is at
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Post by arnieforpresident on Jul 23, 2014 15:02:04 GMT
Just hold a footballing auction get them off the wage bill
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Post by sufolkstokie on Jul 23, 2014 15:02:14 GMT
Dead wood - people or things that are no longer useful or productive. There must be plenty of crystal balls around Staffordshire. Impressed by how many seem to be so confident they know the way Hughes sees the players in his squad. I've a feeling a few will be surprised and players like Crouch, Walters, Wilson etc. will prove to be both useful and productive over the coming season. I don't think Crouch will be here after the window closes. I think we'll look to reduce the wage bill and as a top end earner and at his age, I can see us making a deal. Saying that, I wouldn't put Wilson in my 'deadwood' pile. Nor Crouch either. They would be squad players that I may consider letting go if a decent offer came in. SOunds like Crouch has no intention of moving on The 33-year-old acknowledges that the summer additions of Mame Biram Diouf and Spanish international Bojan will significantly heat up the competition for places in attack, but says he is relishing the battle for a starting berth. "I'm really happy with the way things are going here at the moment, the Club is moving forward and I am delighted to be a part of it," he said. "We finished ninth last year and I had a big part to play in that, so hopefully I can play a big part again this year as we look to build upon that. "Competition is good for players because it keeps everyone on their toes. We know that to progress we have to have great strength in depth and that is what we have now." The frontman, who opened his account in the 1-1 pre-season friendly draw with Borussia Monchengladbach on Sunday, is excited about the future of the Club, and says the capture of Bojan is a serious statement of intent. "It's a fantastic signing for us, and he is a player that we are all looking forward to working with," Crouch added. Read more at www.stokecityfc.com/news/article/crouch-eager-to-play-big-role-1777365.aspx#ZhVTIJdjh2Y5VUgO.99
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Post by Silkystoke on Jul 23, 2014 15:03:15 GMT
we need Walters, lets see in Jan..!!
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Post by foster on Jul 23, 2014 15:12:31 GMT
On reflection, we should be looking to move on a) those that never play or will never cement a place in the team - Ness, Palacios, Edu, Shea for example AND b) those that disrupt morale and cause problems. Namely, the likes of N'Zonzi if a substantial offer were to come in (even though I think he's a great player).
If there's one thing the club has it's great team spirit and a strong bond between the players and coaching staff. So in that respect keeping Crouch and JW would be preferable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 15:19:27 GMT
Just hold a footballing auction get them off the wage bill "Ness,Shea, Edu, Palacios, Jerome.......that your last bid Papa Bear? All in fair warned......."
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 23, 2014 15:23:49 GMT
On reflection, we should be looking to move on a) those that never play or will never cement a place in the team - Ness, Palacios, Edu, Shea for example AND b) those that disrupt morale and cause problems. Namely, the likes of N'Zonzi if a substantial offer were to come in (even though I think he's a great player). If there's one thing the club has it's great team spirit and a strong bond between the players and coaching staff. So in that respect keeping Crouch and JW would be preferable. Absolutely.
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Post by march4 on Jul 23, 2014 15:33:51 GMT
I dislike the term 'deadwood' as we are talking about fellow human beings.
However, I think we need to see the following out of the door asap; Shea Cameron Palacios Ness Edu Jerome
I can also see SJW and/or Crouch going if they get a decent offer. I would rather we kept them as there is no guarantee our new signings are going to gel and these two are steady performers at this level. If they are going to leave, I would prefer it to be in January when the new recruits are firing on all cylinders.
I fear Bego, N'Zonzi and/or Ryan could leave which would be a backward step in my opinion.
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Post by southcarolinastokie on Jul 23, 2014 15:46:43 GMT
It is difficult to judge, Ness and Shea if they carry on the form they showed against Gladbach have a role to play. Palacios, Shotton, Wilko and Jerome need to be gone quickly. Edu has effectively gone, Philly are going to buy him at the end of his loan, they couldn't properly sign him at the time due to the permanent signing they made prior to Edu, he will most likely be their DSP signing for the 2015 season. We could let go of either Crouch or Walters if we sign a winger. I see a role for Odemwingie up top challenging Diouf rather than as a winger
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Jul 23, 2014 15:52:44 GMT
Butland -loan Shea -loan or transfer Palacios -transfer Teixiera -loan Ness -loan or transfer Jerome -transfer Edu -transfer (when his loan expires) Shotton -loan or transfer
One of Cameron, Huth, or Wilson in January. And one of crouch, walters, and odemwingie also in January.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 15:55:15 GMT
I dislike the term 'deadwood' as we are talking about fellow human beings.However, I think we need to see the following out of the door asap; Shea Cameron Palacios Ness Edu Jerome I can also see SJW and/or Crouch going if they get a decent offer. I would rather we kept them as there is no guarantee our new signings are going to gel and these two are steady performers at this level. If they are going to leave, I would prefer it to be in January when the new recruits are firing on all cylinders. I fear Bego, N'Zonzi and/or Ryan could leave which would be a backward step in my opinion. fuck off march you hippy wuss palacios isn't a fellow human being, he's just a leech with a penchant for pies!
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Post by cognacsmoker on Jul 23, 2014 16:00:07 GMT
Butland -loan Shea -loan or transfer Palacios -transfer Teixiera -loan Ness -loan or transfer Jerome -transfer Edu -transfer (when his loan expires) Shotton -loan or transfer One of Cameron, Huth, or Wilson in January. And one of crouch, walters, and odemwingie also in January. This.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jul 23, 2014 16:03:55 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 23, 2014 16:36:51 GMT
We need to keep players like Cameron , Wilson , Adam etc . You get rid of your worst first and then whittle it down pro rata. I know it doesn't always work out that simple but that's the general idea. Yes, we need to retain a squad - injuries suspensions etc to cover. I would hope that all players would not be happy to start on/ not make the bench so some healthy competition is good. To be fair to MH he has rewarded players who have performed e.g. Whelan deservedly retaining his place in the first 11 As with a previous post, Walters and Crouch would be top of my "to stay list" I don't see a role for Palacios, Jerome or Shotton, maybe Wilkinson Adam has his faults but is capable of scoring some vital goals, reading play and providing some pinpoint passes to our forwards I agree exactly with your posts. It's far too soon to start dismantling the best of the squad that achieved 9th place last season. We have 5 new players and a huge increase in the clubs potential, but that is all it is yet, potential. The 5 new players have to start demonstrating they are actually better than last year's squad, they need to avoid injury. MH needs to bide his time welding all the players together and probably only trim the squad at the eleventh hour unless there is a very good offer made for someone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 16:55:37 GMT
Only sneaked a peak at this thread - one thing straight away
Crouch IS NOT 'deadwood'
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