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Post by luke45 on Jul 21, 2014 15:58:37 GMT
It's easy for people to criticize Steven Gerrard because England failed to reach any major finals over the 14 years he was involved, but can anybody actually name a more consistent performer for England throughout that time? For me the only person who comes close is Ashley Cole. He may not have been able to replicate his form for Liverpool in an England shirt all of the time, but I don't think his commitment was ever in doubt. He was the last player in that England squad who I regarded as genuine captain material, I don't see any leaders in our national team now. He's never really done anything for England, he's been a one trick pony for many years who has absolutely no positional sense and lacks any real reading of the game. I also don't get why you think he was a leader or captain material, he's completely silent on the pitch and has no awareness of what's needed at all. Bad player? Of course not but on the national stage you have to offer more than just 40 yard balls into the corner and the odd decent free kick and shot. You must have phenomenally hearing to be so sure that he's completely silent on the pitch! I'm also interested to know who you think has been more consistent for England over that time as well seeing as though you haven't put anyone forward? You must know a hell of a lot more than England's selectors because 114 caps is quite of a lot for a player who doesn't speak, doesn't see and doesn't read.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 16:06:02 GMT
Hope you've got yer tin hat on Salop It's a good job he has retired because that bumbling idiot Hodgson would have just kept picking him,even though he should have been put out to stud 18 months ago. Gerrard has been a superb player but his time had gone a while back now. i dont think strikers should be captains and cahill is a decent defender pretty much guaranteed his place. however my opinion is we should not have a full time captain, give it to the best guy each squad, therefore not guaranteeing anyone a place, too cosy a set up. cahill is the best option. as for gerrard his england career has been wasted for the most. 15 brilliant games, 15 shit games and 85 games where he did nothing as he was shoehorned in to accommodate a frank lampard partnership. gerrard unfortunately should have been frank lampards back up, we were a more balanced midfield with gareth barry in it. In their primes I would have picked Gerrard over Lampard any day of the week. The biggest crime in my opinion was not pairing Scholes up with Gerrard in central midfield when Gerrard was the best box to box midfielder in the country. Gerrard in his prime would have walked into any side in world football and the "he never did anything for England" argument doesn't wash with me because name a midfielder who has in the past 40 years. He's had plenty of games for England where he has been superb and his goals tally suggests he was better than a lot of (Liverpool hating Biased)people give him credit for.
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Post by foster on Jul 21, 2014 16:22:27 GMT
Not bothered about Gerrard retiring. From an international perspective there's no one in the team I'm bothered about.
What does concern me however is that Rooney could be captain.
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Post by stokerob2 on Jul 21, 2014 16:24:09 GMT
Give it to Joe Hart.
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Post by werrington on Jul 21, 2014 16:25:49 GMT
True tho fella. Name anything he's done that's got us anywhere near winning anything? Seriously ? England have won nothing since 1966 Are you saying Keegan Owen Shearer Scholes Beckham et al are all shit then ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 16:26:49 GMT
You only have to look at this thread to realise just how shit this messageboard can be. Steven Gerrard from 2002-2008 would've strolled into ANY team in the world. Yes he hasn't been the same player for a few years now, but a declining Gerrard is still better than most players will ever be. He will go down in history (admittedly Liverpool's history) as one of the greatest English players ever. He was often guilty of trying to do it all himself. I don't know whether that was because he thought he was better than everyone else or whether he though the others weren't very good. It's because there was a time when he was not only capable of doing it all himself, but had no option but to do it all himself. It's because there was a time when he was not only capable of doing it all himself, but had no option but to do it all himself. So far from the truth that this and your previous post is painful to read. Also insults to people instantly shows lack quality argument. Surely you can contribute without doing it? Come on then, explain to me why what I've just said is "so far from the truth it's painful to read". I've even edited out the admittedly unnecessary name-calling. (though I stand by it)
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Post by onionman on Jul 21, 2014 16:38:44 GMT
Fair play to Steven Gerrard, he has taken being a Jack of all Trades to the next level. All that talent, "so good, he can play anywhere" and he did, because he never became the sort of player you could build a team around. Too wrapped up in impacting the game himself to see the bigger picture. He finally sacrificed himself last season in a Liverpool shirt, cut out the hollywood passes and the storming forwards, no coincidence it was their best season in years. If he'd dedicated himself to that position who knows what he might have done for England. As it is, he was just.......pffffft. Correct, but notice how he reverted to type when it came to the crunch, as Liverpool's title hopes faded against Chelsea, and England's World Cup campaign died against Uruguay. It was as if he couldn't face the thought of spending the rest of his life wondering what might have been, if only he'd tried a 35-yard pot shot in the last minute as one final vain attempt at glory. That said, if there was ever any doubt about the dearth of quality in English football, look at the list of potential replacements as captain, according to the Guardian's poll: Wayne Rooney Joe Hart Gary Cahill Jordan Henderson Jack Wilshere Leighton Baines Phil Jagielka Adam Lallana Daniel Sturridge That must be a new low.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jul 21, 2014 16:57:33 GMT
So who is going to be the next captain?
If only there was an Englishman, mid-20s, already captain of his club team for the last few years who performs consistently well for a top half Premier League team...
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Post by scarlet on Jul 21, 2014 17:03:09 GMT
Imagine the conversation:
Gerrard: Listen boss, we both know I'm too old for this international lark now. Maybe you should look to replace me.
Hodgson: Oh Steven you know I can't do that. The press would murder me. They love you.
Gerrard: Yes I know but I was crap in Brazil and really think I'm not up to it anymore at that level.
Hodgson: I know you were crap Steven, but it's about what the press want, you understand that. Do you think the FA would have hired me if I had the balls to drop the England captain. I'm sorry Steven but I can't take the hassle of upsetting the media. That why I daren't pick Ryan Watisname.
Gerrard: Oh fuck it, I'll retire, then you won't have to make the decision.
Hodgson: Thank you Steven. I love you.
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Post by Ayupshag on Jul 21, 2014 17:08:25 GMT
True tho fella. Name anything he's done that's got us anywhere near winning anything? Seriously ? England have won nothing since 1966 Are you saying Keegan Owen Shearer Scholes Beckham et al are all shit then ? Not at all. They all played ok for England. They weren't great but were ok. Gerrard has been shit for England imo, absolutely shit. Showed nowhere near his form for Liverpool so personally I'm glad he's finished, it will now force us to change
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Post by liathroid on Jul 21, 2014 17:18:00 GMT
did anyone else retire this week )and he went without all this crap
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Post by Gordon Marshall on Jul 21, 2014 17:25:28 GMT
England are wank cus won nothing since 66, players who havent won anything are wank. So G was wank, Lineker wank and more to the point MATTHEWS was wank. We need a reality check on here. The so called " golden generation" which was Neville, Cole, Terry,Ferdinand, Gerrard, Scholes,Beckham,Owen and Rooney would have won the world cup this time IF We had a good keeper instead of James. Germans had Neurer and sometimes thats what it takes.
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Post by 2004 on Jul 21, 2014 17:26:23 GMT
It's for the best. He had an awful World Cup.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 21, 2014 17:41:51 GMT
England should retire the player, not the other way around.
As Ray Wilkins (and David Beckham I think) said so eloquently, you remain available for England for as long as you can play and when they don't need you anymore, then England retires you.
Sadly, this is further proof that playing for England just doesn't really matter that much to the current crop of players and probably explains, in some way, why they were arguably the worst team in the recent world cup.
Shit doesn't really do them justice.
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Post by geoff321 on Jul 21, 2014 17:52:56 GMT
The World Champion's players don't retire themselves, do they?
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Post by steakandchips on Jul 21, 2014 17:54:15 GMT
I can't name one player in the squad deserving of captaining England
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 17:59:34 GMT
England should retire the player, not the other way around. As Ray Wilkins (and David Beckham I think) said so eloquently, you remain available for England for as long as you can play and when they don't need you anymore, then England retires you. Sadly, this is further proof that playing for England just doesn't really matter that much to the current crop of players and probably explains, in some way, why they were arguably the worst team in the recent world cup. Shit doesn't really do them justice. Gerrard has most likely concluded that retiring from international football will give him a few more years with Liverpool. Whilst that may be a financial decision as much as anything, considering he is a lifelong Liverpool supporter I don't think we are in any position to judge that decision. Much in the same way we weren't in a position to judge when Scholes quit England. You can't really criticise a club before country mentality if they play for their boyhood clubs.
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Post by Beardy200 on Jul 21, 2014 18:01:50 GMT
Fair play to him. He's gone at the right time and more often than not they don't. I'm sure Hodgson would have picked him for another 2 years on reputation alone if given the chance.
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hoopty
Youth Player
Posts: 431
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Post by hoopty on Jul 21, 2014 18:25:18 GMT
Fair play to him. Gave his best, sadly couldn't replicate club form on the big stage This "gave his best" thing has always troubled me as we certainly never saw his best. He and many of his peer group always looked to be playing in fear when they pulled on an England shirt. I'd have hoped they would be better able to manage themselves and perform at better than 60% but the fact is they didn't. His England performances will unfortunately detract from his otherwise great career.
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Post by jarvinski on Jul 21, 2014 18:35:08 GMT
Decent club player, fucking embarrassment for England, he's done the best thing for England , he should have retired 8 years ago
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Post by jarvinski on Jul 21, 2014 18:35:41 GMT
Decent club player, fucking embarrassment for England, he's done the best thing for England , he should have retired 8 years ago
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Post by werrington on Jul 21, 2014 18:46:01 GMT
Fair play to him. Gave his best, sadly couldn't replicate club form on the big stage This "gave his best" thing has always troubled me as we certainly never saw his best. He and many of his peer group always looked to be playing in fear when they pulled on an England shirt. I'd have hoped they would be better able to manage themselves and perform at better than 60% but the fact is they didn't. His England performances will unfortunately detract from his otherwise great career. Never saw his best ? He was fantastic at euro 2004 and Germany 2006 A player is only as good as those around him ......there's been some shite playing for England but Steven Gerrard has been excellent
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 19:02:57 GMT
give the captaincy to gary cahill It's depressing that our options are so limited we even need to consider Cahill as captain. Whoever the next captain is it's not going to be long term unless Joe Hart gets it and I'm not sure a goalkeeper as captain is a good idea. For the next 2 years it would have to be Lallana or Cahill, Rooney is too petulant and inconsistent to risk as captain. If Wilshere gets his act together and starts playing like people expected him to a few years ago then he could be a future captain, he's been awful recently though and has a hell of a lot to prove. It's a shame Roy won't see sense and put Shawcross in there, best English centre back in the league and a great role model as well.
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 21, 2014 19:04:49 GMT
Seriously ? England have won nothing since 1966 Are you saying Keegan Owen Shearer Scholes Beckham et al are all shit then ? Not at all. They all played ok for England. They weren't great but were ok. Gerrard has been shit for England imo, absolutely shit. Showed nowhere near his form for Liverpool so personally I'm glad he's finished, it will now force us to change Gerrard has been one of the top midfield players in Europe for the last 10 years. He is now past it, but to write him off as a failure for is country is absolutely unbelievable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 19:55:07 GMT
the team we could have been playing under eriksson
GK
Neville Ferdinand Terry Cole
Butt Beckham Scholes Gerrard Rooney
Owen
He should have kept a tight diamond in midfield allowing all of them to flood the middle and control possession and using rooney and Owen on the break with Gerrard and Beckham working their socks off. INstead as always we got it wrong time and again, tried to Shoehorn gerrard into the middle with Lampard and stuck scholes at left wing, playing a flat 4 in midfield that never suited anyone and let teams with inferior players, including Portugal at two successive tournaments, control all possession against us.
We never, ever, ever get it right. Look at that team above - we should have won a tournament with that team
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 21, 2014 20:35:31 GMT
Thank fuck for that. 15 years of doing fuck all for England finally over Ridiculous post Great Premiership player but very average international footballer in world terms, relied on pace and power and at top level that is not enough. 6 tournaments and almost no impact, epitomises weakness of English game as if in doubt he would attempt the hero ball and uusally lose possession. Also ridiculous idea he could convert to a Pirlo or Scholes type player at age 34. No reason why he should stay on, he had a very poor World Cup against 3 average teams and England need to plan for 2018 or 2020 as realistic targets for when we could have built a competitive team. And despite all the moralising he was a diver as often as many we despise for so doing
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 21, 2014 20:38:15 GMT
True tho fella. Name anything he's done that's got us anywhere near winning anything? Seriously ? England have won nothing since 1966 Are you saying Keegan Owen Shearer Scholes Beckham et al are all shit then ? Do you think any one of them was truly world class? Lineker, Gascoigne, Pearce and Cole could stand against their peers, few others since 1970. Scholes should have been but Hoddle the only manager who valued him, shocking when he played wide left to accommodate Lampard and Gerrard.
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Post by werrington on Jul 21, 2014 20:42:11 GMT
Seriously ? England have won nothing since 1966 Are you saying Keegan Owen Shearer Scholes Beckham et al are all shit then ? Do you think any one of them was truly world class? Lineker, Gascoigne, Pearce and Cole could stand against their peers, few others since 1970. Scholes should have been but Hoddle the only manager who valued him, shocking when he played wide left to accommodate Lampard and Gerrard. Individually.....In a good team ie a Germany or a Spain then yeah they would of been up there In an England side that's been full of average players then no A player is only as good as those around him
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Post by Ayupshag on Jul 21, 2014 20:50:21 GMT
Not at all. They all played ok for England. They weren't great but were ok. Gerrard has been shit for England imo, absolutely shit. Showed nowhere near his form for Liverpool so personally I'm glad he's finished, it will now force us to change Gerrard has been one of the top midfield players in Europe for the last 10 years. He is now past it, but to write him off as a failure for is country is absolutely unbelievable. He is a failure for England. He's not performed anywhere near his ability that he shows for Liverpool so you can't call him a success can you? So how do you come to the conclusion that it's unbelievable?
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Post by malteser68 on Jul 21, 2014 20:50:50 GMT
I can't name one player in the squad deserving of captaining England i fully agree. !!! Which in itself just goes to show at what level the national team has sunk !!
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