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Post by crapslinger on Jul 20, 2014 7:46:41 GMT
Vale has some decent fans and some bad fans, like most other teams fans that I have dealt with in my travels.
You obviously have never had to live in close proximity for any amount of time to the Vale morons, I have lived in Stoke-on-Trent all my life and I have yet to meet a decent Vale fan.
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Post by geoff321 on Jul 20, 2014 7:49:10 GMT
Obviously then slayer you never met Sir Stanley Matthews?
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 20, 2014 7:57:23 GMT
Obviously then slayer you never met Sir Stanley Matthews? No never, saw Stan play but never met him in person, he must have been a big Vale fan were they not booted out of the league for financial irregularities when he was managing the vile scum
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 20, 2014 8:31:45 GMT
I've got a few good mates who are Vale fans, and they'd be devastated if their club went out of business. Therefore, for their sake if nothing else, I can't wish for that to happen.
However, how many times are Vale going to need bailing out before someone says "enough is enough" and puts the smelly sods out of their misery? They've been badly run for years, and every mess they get into is one of their own making. Other lower league teams have to live within their means, so why should Vale be any different?
I hope it doesn't happen, but we'll soon reach a point where there may be no alternative.
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Post by bathstoke on Jul 20, 2014 10:13:34 GMT
Population of Stoke is roughly the same as Plymouth & I've lived in both. If you asked a Plymouth fan whether their city could accommodate 2 teams what would be the response!?!
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Post by vpinpeace on Jul 20, 2014 11:19:16 GMT
As a Vale fan it's refreshing to see some of you care about football rather than daft local pride nonsense. I have seen a lot of people talking about living within their means but that's easy to say coming from the Premier League. It is now impossible for a club the size of ours to make it to the pinnacle of English football. We were bailed out by the council but we were well and truly done over by our previous owners. Smurf won't see us go the same way again but we are losing money but who isn't outside of the Championship. The only clubs doing well are those bankrolled by wealthy owners and the ones pulling in 12-15k fans a week. You have clearly forgotten where you have come from but as a football fan I wouldn't wish Stoke City to go bust. Do I dislike you as a club? Not really.. We are so far away from each other that rivalry doesn't come into anymore.
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Post by werrington on Jul 20, 2014 11:27:03 GMT
Vale has some decent fans and some bad fans, like most other teams fans that I have dealt with in my travels.
You obviously have never had to live in close proximity for any amount of time to the Vale morons, I have lived in Stoke-on-Trent all my life and I have yet to meet a decent Vale fan.
I know plenty who are thoroughly decent and are very good friends of mine I feel sorry for you tbh
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 20, 2014 11:30:34 GMT
As a Vale fan it's refreshing to see some of you care about football rather than daft local pride nonsense. I have seen a lot of people talking about living within their means but that's easy to say coming from the Premier League. It is now impossible for a club the size of ours to make it to the pinnacle of English football. We were bailed out by the council but we were well and truly done over by our previous owners. Smurf won't see us go the same way again but we are losing money but who isn't outside of the Championship. The only clubs doing well are those bankrolled by wealthy owners and the ones pulling in 12-15k fans a week. You have clearly forgotten where you have come from but as a football fan I wouldn't wish Stoke City to go bust. Do I dislike you as a club? Not really.. We are so far away from each other that rivalry doesn't come into anymore. You're probably 'farting in the wind' mate but I agree with much of that. I've followed Stoke for more than 50 years and, you're right, we've had many a shit year over that period and I honestly think some of our fans have lost sight of what is important in the game in the bigger picture. Despite the passion that I have over so many years for Stoke City and the same passion that my two (grown up) sons have for them too, I look at my little 6 year old grandson (who loves Port Vale due to a faulty gene in his father's background ) and I realise that Stoke City don't have a monopoly on football passion in the Potteries. I'm 100% for ALL passionate, loyal and decent football fans who follow a whole plethora of small clubs, big clubs, non-league clubs or whatever. That most certainly includes the many good folk that watch their football at Vale Park.
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 20, 2014 11:33:14 GMT
Vale has some decent fans and some bad fans, like most other teams fans that I have dealt with in my travels.
You obviously have never had to live in close proximity for any amount of time to the Vale morons, I have lived in Stoke-on-Trent all my life and I have yet to meet a decent Vale fan.
My family is split between Stoke and vale and I would rather have one vale fan supporting his local club than a glory hunting shite fan any day of the week their are vale fans who are arseholes same as their are arsehole stoke fans don't lump them all in the same groups so if you have lived all your life in stoke and not met one decent vale fan get out your house more and socialise
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 20, 2014 11:42:42 GMT
As a Vale fan it's refreshing to see some of you care about football rather than daft local pride nonsense. I have seen a lot of people talking about living within their means but that's easy to say coming from the Premier League. It is now impossible for a club the size of ours to make it to the pinnacle of English football. We were bailed out by the council but we were well and truly done over by our previous owners. Smurf won't see us go the same way again but we are losing money but who isn't outside of the Championship. The only clubs doing well are those bankrolled by wealthy owners and the ones pulling in 12-15k fans a week. You have clearly forgotten where you have come from but as a football fan I wouldn't wish Stoke City to go bust. Do I dislike you as a club? Not really.. We are so far away from each other that rivalry doesn't come into anymore. Would that be the previous owners that the Vale fans wanted to take over from the previous owners that had done you over. The Vale need to get in the real world and understand the situation. They have saddled themselves with a stadium totally and wildly beyond their ability to get anywhere near filling it. Instead of covering and re-building the Hamil End, re-building the white Elephant Lorne Street the Vale should have cut their cloth and relocated to a 10,000 job and secured the clubs future. The fans still talk of them being a top half Championship team, this is total delusion. The only way out of this spiral the Vale are in is a shot of realism. If you mention to the average Vale fan that the only way to secure the club is to downsize the tired old Black and Gold scarves would be out. You are deluded and you are at the core of your own clubs problems.
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 20, 2014 11:47:11 GMT
As a Vale fan it's refreshing to see some of you care about football rather than daft local pride nonsense. I have seen a lot of people talking about living within their means but that's easy to say coming from the Premier League. It is now impossible for a club the size of ours to make it to the pinnacle of English football. We were bailed out by the council but we were well and truly done over by our previous owners. Smurf won't see us go the same way again but we are losing money but who isn't outside of the Championship. The only clubs doing well are those bankrolled by wealthy owners and the ones pulling in 12-15k fans a week. You have clearly forgotten where you have come from but as a football fan I wouldn't wish Stoke City to go bust. Do I dislike you as a club? Not really.. We are so far away from each other that rivalry doesn't come into anymore. Would that be the previous owners that the Vale fans wanted to take over from the previous owners that had done you over. The Vale need to get in the real world and understand the situation. They have saddled themselves with a stadium totally and wildly beyond their ability to get anywhere near filling it. Instead of covering and re-building the Hamil End, re-building the white Elephant Lorne Street the Vale should have cut their cloth and relocated to a 10,000 job and secured the clubs future. The fans still talk of them being a top half Championship team, this is total delusion. The only way out of this spiral the Vale are in is a shot of realism. If you mention to the average Vale fan that the only way to secure the club is to downsize the tired old Black and Gold scarves would be out. You are deluded and you are at the core of your own club.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 20, 2014 11:52:43 GMT
As a Vale fan it's refreshing to see some of you care about football rather than daft local pride nonsense. I have seen a lot of people talking about living within their means but that's easy to say coming from the Premier League. It is now impossible for a club the size of ours to make it to the pinnacle of English football. We were bailed out by the council but we were well and truly done over by our previous owners. Smurf won't see us go the same way again but we are losing money but who isn't outside of the Championship. The only clubs doing well are those bankrolled by wealthy owners and the ones pulling in 12-15k fans a week. You have clearly forgotten where you have come from but as a football fan I wouldn't wish Stoke City to go bust. Do I dislike you as a club? Not really.. We are so far away from each other that rivalry doesn't come into anymore. Would that be the previous owners that the Vale fans wanted to take over from the previous owners that had done you over. The Vale need to get in the real world and understand the situation. They have saddled themselves with a stadium totally and wildly beyond their ability to get anywhere near filling it. Instead of covering and re-building the Hamil End, re-building the white Elephant Lorne Street the Vale should have cut their cloth and relocated to a 10,000 job and secured the clubs future. The fans still talk of them being a top half Championship team, this is total delusion. The only way out of this spiral the Vale are in is a shot of realism. If you mention to the average Vale fan that the only way to secure the club is to downsize the tired old Black and Gold scarves would be out. You are deluded and you are at the core of your own clubs problems. Good job that the "only way to secure Stoke's future" was to rediscover a multi-millionaire fan who would write off the club's huge debts, invest a few million in getting to The Premier League and then spend £100 Million over 5 years to keep them there. This at a club who, a few seasons earlier hardly had a pot to piss in and, although they had been on a level (or lower) than Port Vale in the leagues still had much better resources to work with. Some fans of said club now feel they are so fucking big that they can hand out advice to one of the very many small clubs that find it almost impossible to survive. To base our disdain for such clubs on the fact that (we believe) their fans are "deluded" is laughable. We are ALL fucking deluded (football fans).
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Post by vpinpeace on Jul 20, 2014 12:07:12 GMT
How old is Vale Park?? It was opened in 1950? At the time it wasn't 25quid to watch a game. When the stadium was built we got attendances over 20000 and I think the record is something like 49000. Do you know how much a new stadium costs? Burton recently had a new stadium built. The capacity is LESS than 7000 and cost 7.2million? Do you want Stoke On Trent City council to build this for us? It's ok to sit there picking up your millions of pounds from Sky and thinking that little tin pot clubs like out selves should just just downsize and be done with it but ask yourself where the competitiveness has gone? For the next decade Port vale will scrapping along not moving anywhere other than the two bottom devisions until something drastic is done about the money being pumped into the PL. For some of you to wish us to go bust is pretty small minded seeing as where you have come from. Like I said I don't speak on behalf of all Vale fans but I'm a football fan and would hate to see any football team go bust but I'd hate it even more if it was one from my city.
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 20, 2014 12:07:25 GMT
Fair comment Doz, but didn't Stoke re-evaluate their situation and move their location and hasn't that re-evaluation ultimately paid off. What I am saying is when the Vale went through a massive re-building of their ground this was at the core of their problem, it has broke their back as a club. If when it was muted they could have taken the option of a downsize that would have ultimately given them a firm solvent base. If you would have mentioned this to the average Vale fan I suggest it would not have been taken on board.
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Post by vpinpeace on Jul 20, 2014 12:11:21 GMT
Fair comment Doz, but didn't Stoke re-evaluate their situation and move their location and hasn't that re-evaluation ultimately paid off. What I am saying is when the Vale went through a massive re-building of their ground this was at the core of their problem, it has broke their back as a club. If when it was muted they could have taken the option of a downsize that would have ultimately given them a firm solvent base. If you would have mentioned this to the average Vale fan I suggest it would not have been taken on board. Downsize to where? When it was last talked about the only viable option is where Reginald Mitchell way is going up towards Sandyford.
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 20, 2014 12:17:58 GMT
vpinpeace, I never said I wanted Port Vale to go bust, Burton Albion re-located to the Pirelli Stadium and built new. This has given them Football League status and a solvent club. Isn't this an example of what I was saying Burton Albion are a success story. Were the Vale not offered a deal similar to Stoke to re-locate to the Ravensdale Valley and build a newer smaller ground, but this was rejected. The memory may be fading but I'm certain I recollect this.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 20, 2014 12:18:13 GMT
Fair comment Doz, but didn't Stoke re-evaluate their situation and move their location and hasn't that re-evaluation ultimately paid off. What I am saying is when the Vale went through a massive re-building of their ground this was at the core of their problem, it has broke their back as a club. If when it was muted they could have taken the option of a downsize that would have ultimately given them a firm solvent base. If you would have mentioned this to the average Vale fan I suggest it would not have been taken on board. Mate there have clearly been some huge mistakes made a Vale Park and that's probably true of most clubs. I'm not looking at it from the point of view of seven Chairmen ago or those that they've had before or since. Like I said I look at my little Grandson who loves his football club or the likes of the chap posting on here now who is clearly a passionate football fan who happens to follow Port Vale. I honestly believe that the bulk of football fans from every club are actually pretty decent, level headed football fans who simply love football and their club in particular. As the fella says, it would cost money way beyond Port Vale even to build the most modest of small capacity stadiums right now but, I agree that would be the best way forward for them. Sadly, unless they stumble across a 'black and white' Peter Coates, they'll have a long wait. It must be an absolute nightmare trying to run a club at Port Vale's level right now with their resources and I honestly think we're the last set of fans to be handing them advice. I know I'm a dinosaur mate but I can't change that. I wish them well.
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 20, 2014 12:20:06 GMT
Sorry mate we seem to be crossing over posts, yes that is the area in the valley where the Johnsons sports ground was.
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Post by vpinpeace on Jul 20, 2014 12:35:36 GMT
vpinpeace, I never said I wanted Port Vale to go bust, Burton Albion re-located to the Pirelli Stadium and built new. This has given them Football League status and a solvent club. Isn't this an example of what I was saying Burton Albion are a success story. Were the Vale not offered a deal similar to Stoke to re-locate to the Ravensdale Valley and build a newer smaller ground, but this was rejected. The memory may be fading but I'm certain I recollect this. The idea was rejected I think because the people who ran the club at the time wanted to stay in Burslem. There isn't much left in the town anymore as we all know and to take away whatever history is left would leave it in a real mess. The ground is a mess and it needs £££ spending on it. Vale Park as it stands could be utilised 100times better than it is but the money just isn't there. There were talks of downsizing the railway paddock and moving it closer to the pitch and then using the land for a hotel and gym etc ( this was Mo Chaudrey's blue print) These are the sort of regeneration ideas that need to happen but it is just unaffordable. Look at where you guys have come from in last 6 years? Singing internationals and building a state of art training complex. Look at your losses over the past few years? How is that sustainable and how can clubs like ours compete? Football clubs used to be able to survive easily on ticket sales and selling a player here and there. Clubs now have to go into massive amounts of debt just to survive and stop them selves dropping into bottom tier of English football. We will be coming up against clubs like Preston, Sheff Utd and Bradford next season. Massive clubs! Clubs with history and a fan base as big as yours. The only reason they are where they are is because the owners have stripped them for what they can get or falling out of the premier league has killed them. What happens when Coates has enough? Will the next generation take over? Will they continue to bankroll you or will you have to become self sustainable and live within your means?
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 20, 2014 12:44:15 GMT
vpinpeace, I never said I wanted Port Vale to go bust, Burton Albion re-located to the Pirelli Stadium and built new. This has given them Football League status and a solvent club. Isn't this an example of what I was saying Burton Albion are a success story. Were the Vale not offered a deal similar to Stoke to re-locate to the Ravensdale Valley and build a newer smaller ground, but this was rejected. The memory may be fading but I'm certain I recollect this. The idea was rejected I think because the people who ran the club at the time wanted to stay in Burslem. There isn't much left in the town anymore as we all know and to take away whatever history is left would leave it in a real mess. The ground is a mess and it needs £££ spending on it. Vale Park as it stands could be utilised 100times better than it is but the money just isn't there. There were talks of downsizing the railway paddock and moving it closer to the pitch and then using the land for a hotel and gym etc ( this was Mo Chaudrey's blue print) These are the sort of regeneration ideas that need to happen but it is just unaffordable. Look at where you guys have come from in last 6 years? Singing internationals and building a state of art training complex. Look at your losses over the past few years? How is that sustainable and how can clubs like ours compete? Football clubs used to be able to survive easily on ticket sales and selling a player here and there. Clubs now have to go into massive amounts of debt just to survive and stop them selves dropping into bottom tier of English football. We will be coming up against clubs like Preston, Sheff Utd and Bradford next season. Massive clubs! Clubs with history and a fan base as big as yours. The only reason they are where they are is because the owners have stripped them for what they can get or falling out of the premier league has killed them. What happens when Coates has enough? Will the next generation take over? Will they continue to bankroll you or will you have to become self sustainable and live within your means? It's started already mate. That's why Pulis was sacked and we have reduced our debt by 26 Million. You're right we DO have to become self sufficient even under Mr Coates and we're moving along those lines. We SHOULD be able to do that comfortably given the amount of income we receive but we need to because he won't be around forever and who knows what the future holds. I agree, it's a whole world away from Port Vale's finances and running a club at that level, with Vale's resources is an absolute nightmare. I agree you are up against a fair few clubs that ought to do much better than you (but it doesn't mean they will). I wish you well.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 20, 2014 12:55:31 GMT
The idea was rejected I think because the people who ran the club at the time wanted to stay in Burslem. There isn't much left in the town anymore as we all know and to take away whatever history is left would leave it in a real mess. The ground is a mess and it needs £££ spending on it. Vale Park as it stands could be utilised 100times better than it is but the money just isn't there. There were talks of downsizing the railway paddock and moving it closer to the pitch and then using the land for a hotel and gym etc ( this was Mo Chaudrey's blue print) These are the sort of regeneration ideas that need to happen but it is just unaffordable. Look at where you guys have come from in last 6 years? Singing internationals and building a state of art training complex. Look at your losses over the past few years? How is that sustainable and how can clubs like ours compete? Football clubs used to be able to survive easily on ticket sales and selling a player here and there. Clubs now have to go into massive amounts of debt just to survive and stop them selves dropping into bottom tier of English football. We will be coming up against clubs like Preston, Sheff Utd and Bradford next season. Massive clubs! Clubs with history and a fan base as big as yours. The only reason they are where they are is because the owners have stripped them for what they can get or falling out of the premier league has killed them. What happens when Coates has enough? Will the next generation take over? Will they continue to bankroll you or will you have to become self sustainable and live within your means? It's started already mate. That's why Pulis was sacked and we have reduced our debt by 26 Million. You're right we DO have to become self sufficient even under Mr Coates and we're moving along those lines. We SHOULD be able to do that comfortably given the amount of income we receive but we need to because he won't be around forever and who knows what the future holds. I agree, it's a whole world away from Port Vale's finances and running a club at that level, with Vale's resources is an absolute nightmare. I agree you are up against a fair few clubs that ought to do much better than you (but it doesn't mean they will). I wish you well. Reduced our losses. Carry on....
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jul 20, 2014 13:00:01 GMT
vpinpeace, I never said I wanted Port Vale to go bust, Burton Albion re-located to the Pirelli Stadium and built new. This has given them Football League status and a solvent club. Isn't this an example of what I was saying Burton Albion are a success story. Were the Vale not offered a deal similar to Stoke to re-locate to the Ravensdale Valley and build a newer smaller ground, but this was rejected. The memory may be fading but I'm certain I recollect this. The idea was rejected I think because the people who ran the club at the time wanted to stay in Burslem. There isn't much left in the town anymore as we all know and to take away whatever history is left would leave it in a real mess. The ground is a mess and it needs £££ spending on it. Vale Park as it stands could be utilised 100times better than it is but the money just isn't there. There were talks of downsizing the railway paddock and moving it closer to the pitch and then using the land for a hotel and gym etc ( this was Mo Chaudrey's blue print) These are the sort of regeneration ideas that need to happen but it is just unaffordable. Look at where you guys have come from in last 6 years? Singing internationals and building a state of art training complex. Look at your losses over the past few years? How is that sustainable and how can clubs like ours compete? Football clubs used to be able to survive easily on ticket sales and selling a player here and there. Clubs now have to go into massive amounts of debt just to survive and stop them selves dropping into bottom tier of English football. We will be coming up against clubs like Preston, Sheff Utd and Bradford next season. Massive clubs! Clubs with history and a fan base as big as yours. The only reason they are where they are is because the owners have stripped them for what they can get or falling out of the premier league has killed them. What happens when Coates has enough? Will the next generation take over? Will they continue to bankroll you or will you have to become self sustainable and live within your means? I think debt and the Premier league go hand in hand, but it is the ability to service the debt that is the key. Any club that looses its Prem status may struggle. Hopefully the Coates family will continue their support for Stoke more so because they are a dying breed of local people owning their club. In the Rudge, Aspin, Glover etc era Vale were clearly the better team I feel it was at this time that the boat was missed. This was at the time that Stoke moved and that has ultimately been proved the correct call (would you not agree). Whilst the Vale could compete with Stoke on the park they should have realised that parity off the park would have needed a more creative solution than developing and ageing ground into a 25,000 all seater millstone. I wish you well mate and hope that the Vale continue, however as with some narrow minded Stoke fans I fear not all the Vale fans would see this argument at all. That is what I was rather clumsily trying to say that a narrow minded attitude has hampered the club because it was a fact that a way forward was missed and at what price.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 20, 2014 13:21:36 GMT
It's started already mate. That's why Pulis was sacked and we have reduced our debt by 26 Million. You're right we DO have to become self sufficient even under Mr Coates and we're moving along those lines. We SHOULD be able to do that comfortably given the amount of income we receive but we need to because he won't be around forever and who knows what the future holds. I agree, it's a whole world away from Port Vale's finances and running a club at that level, with Vale's resources is an absolute nightmare. I agree you are up against a fair few clubs that ought to do much better than you (but it doesn't mean they will). I wish you well. Reduced our losses. Carry on.... I'm a simple man bayern. Don't start asking me questions like reduced debt or reduced losses? Whichever it is, we are clearly moving closer to where the club needs to be financially.
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Post by vpinpeace on Jul 20, 2014 13:49:52 GMT
It's a sad fact that our chairman has had to put 200k of his money into the Vale just so he we can afford the wages to replace a player that left us for Gillingham. It takes the enjoyment out of football for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 15:30:58 GMT
Vale has some decent fans and some bad fans, like most other teams fans that I have dealt with in my travels.
You obviously have never had to live in close proximity for any amount of time to the Vale morons, I have lived in Stoke-on-Trent all my life and I have yet to meet a decent Vale fan.
I bet theres a lot of Vale and Stoke fans who would say the same about you
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 20, 2014 15:59:17 GMT
You obviously have never had to live in close proximity for any amount of time to the Vale morons, I have lived in Stoke-on-Trent all my life and I have yet to meet a decent Vale fan.
I bet theres a lot of Vale and Stoke fans who would say the same about you how very odd.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 20, 2014 16:25:04 GMT
I bet theres a lot of Vale and Stoke fans who would say the same about you how very odd. I can honestly say that I've rarely met a Vale fan that was anything other than 'decent' and the odd one or two dotted around my extended family are just football fans like any other. In my experience (and I'm 57) football fans, whichever team they happen to support, are MAINLY very passionate people who love their club and can take a sensible view of the game in it's wider context. There are plenty of exceptions of course but then there are plenty of ignorant, opinionated Stoke City fans.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 16:32:52 GMT
Overdue this one - you cant say anything but - as an outsider, this dysfunctional, pathetic pitiful little failing club continually lingering in existence, limping along from one embaressment to the next, only serves to hold the proper football club in S.O.T back - sooner they're truly 'gone', - the better for all concerned I reckon.
(and I'm for for 'the 72' league clubs - but these time- wasters surely should've been wound up ages ago ?
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Post by vpinpeace on Jul 20, 2014 16:56:33 GMT
Overdue this one - you cant say anything but - as an outsider, this dysfunctional, pathetic pitiful little failing club continually lingering in existence, limping along from one embaressment to the next, only serves to hold the proper football club in S.O.T back - sooner they're truly 'gone', - the better for all concerned I reckon. (and I'm for for 'the 72' league clubs - but these time- wasters surely should've been wound up ages ago ? Been a Stoke fan long have you.. Ever left Stoke on Trent? Ever left the confines of your own home? I really don't mind majority of Stoke fans and we have had to put up with you being on MOTD every Saturday ha! Some fans would love to see you struggle but you were the most hated team in the PL for 5 years. Surely wishing little old Vale to go out of business is a bit short sited.
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LouieIsTheKing
Academy Starlet
SAMEDAY COURIER COMPANY OF THE YEAR WINNERS 2013
Posts: 244
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Post by LouieIsTheKing on Jul 20, 2014 17:26:19 GMT
Just heard that HMRC have issued a winding up order against PVFC. Any truth in this? Why didn't you ask your source that very question? I did. However, my source was in Mid-Spain so I thought it might be worth asking the question a bit nearer to home. Unfortunately, I reached The Oatcake's resident Gimp.
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