|
|
Post by y2j on May 11, 2014 9:40:47 GMT
As someone that has played 'Champo' (Football Manager) for 20 odd years, I have to say this one is one of the most difficult one's I've played on!! Despite trying various teams with a variety of talent in each team, I have found it difficult to mount a consistently good season. In fact, I'd even say that at times it's been unrealistic. I've built up a superb Southampton team, yet still struggled even when playing lower league teams. It doesn't seem right.
Has anyone else had the same issue or experienced similar issues?
|
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on May 11, 2014 9:44:03 GMT
I find it as easy as most of them have been in the past tbh, just won the league with a pretty bog standard Stoke team after 3 seasons there, try mixing up your formation a bit, tactics etc seem to be a lot more detailed in this one.
|
|
|
|
Post by y2j on May 11, 2014 10:14:57 GMT
Yeah I'll perhaps have to spend a bit more time doing that side of things. Sounds like you are doing ok, but is winning the league with Stoke not a bit unrealistic? Well done mind, good work.
|
|
|
|
Post by santy on May 11, 2014 10:50:26 GMT
It's worth remembering the formation you set is where your players will be in defence. The instructions you then give players will set where they go in attack. It's a mistake a lot of people make. Fluidity and creative freedom affect how much this is adhered to so you may find it doesn't always seem this way if you play fluidly/creatively.
So for example if you're playing say a 4-2-3-1 with 2 CM's and 3AM's then whenever your team loses the ball you're effectively playing a very high counter attacking formation. Your defence is extremely exposed as the AM's won't track back and the CM's will hold midfield. Odds are when attacking your team will look very good and in control, however, you'll forever be susceptible to a long ball counter or quick break.
You're left with opposing wingers running directly at your fullback and if you watch games you will see its very rare now for a team to leave 1 defender up against 1 winger, just too much potential to go wrong.
With the right instructions set a 4-4-1-1 would mean you have 2 players to cover opposition wingers, and set your CM's to drop deeper (or even start them as DM's and to push forward).
If you set your ML/MR player to get forward and cut inside, when in attack they will effectively become AMC's and your team takes on and 4-2-3-1 shape in attack.
Pick the formation for where you want your players to be in defence, build in the instructions for where you want them to go on the attack.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 11:34:13 GMT
It's worth remembering the formation you set is where your players will be in defence. The instructions you then give players will set where they go in attack. It's a mistake a lot of people make. Fluidity and creative freedom affect how much this is adhered to so you may find it doesn't always seem this way if you play fluidly/creatively. So for example if you're playing say a 4-2-3-1 with 2 CM's and 3AM's then whenever your team loses the ball you're effectively playing a very high counter attacking formation. Your defence is extremely exposed as the AM's won't track back and the CM's will hold midfield. Odds are when attacking your team will look very good and in control, however, you'll forever be susceptible to a long ball counter or quick break. You're left with opposing wingers running directly at your fullback and if you watch games you will see its very rare now for a team to leave 1 defender up against 1 winger, just too much potential to go wrong. With the right instructions set a 4-4-1-1 would mean you have 2 players to cover opposition wingers, and set your CM's to drop deeper (or even start them as DM's and to push forward). If you set your ML/MR player to get forward and cut inside, when in attack they will effectively become AMC's and your team takes on and 4-2-3-1 shape in attack. Pick the formation for where you want your players to be in defence, build in the instructions for where you want them to go on the attack. Santy. Can you put a bit down in words about mentality and fluidity and how they balance off against each other? |
|
|
|
Post by santy on May 11, 2014 11:43:59 GMT
It's a complex monster is the FM match engine.
Fluidity is perhaps easier to explain, a player with better mental stats in a more fluid formation is aware of the dangers around him. So a player with high concentration, high determination, high professionalism etc might be playing AML where you put him and in theory - shouldn't track back to help the full back. But if the team is struggling and fluidity is high the player will come back to help. Alternatively if the player in the AMR position has poor defensive stats but high flair, high movement (off the ball) and attacking instructions set he is more likely to push even further forward in a more fluid formation and further expose the team.
The team mentality is largely like a sliding scale of what you want your team to do and where you want them to be. On standard all the players will basically line up more or less how you've positioned them for the formation. At the most defensive extremes your players will line up in solid banks and have very few, if any outlets to break. Counter will see the team sit slightly deeper than you've set and look to break, control will be slightly higher.
If you're playing attacking then it pushes it up quite a bit, so if you have an attacking formation - with a high defensive line you're effectively leaving an enormous amount of space. If you're playing counter or defensive with the highest defensive line set up, you're leaving large spaces and effectively sitting your defenders on your now deeper lying midfielders.
There are so many subtle nuances it's hard to explain, but generally if you're playing attacking as a mentality you don't need team instructions which then push the defence further up, and if you put instructions then to pull the defence further back you risk creating too large a space between defence and midfield - so if you do that you need to make use of a DM to break up and link up play.
It's worth pointing out, my knowledge pales in comparison compared to a select few who have been working on the research team for years, and the internal testers comfortably blow us all out of the water lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 11:56:24 GMT
It's a complex monster is the FM match engine. Fluidity is perhaps easier to explain, a player with better mental stats in a more fluid formation is aware of the dangers around him. So a player with high concentration, high determination, high professionalism etc might be playing AML where you put him and in theory - shouldn't track back to help the full back. But if the team is struggling and fluidity is high the player will come back to help. Alternatively if the player in the AMR position has poor defensive stats but high flair, high movement (off the ball) and attacking instructions set he is more likely to push even further forward in a more fluid formation and further expose the team. The team mentality is largely like a sliding scale of what you want your team to do and where you want them to be. On standard all the players will basically line up more or less how you've positioned them for the formation. At the most defensive extremes your players will line up in solid banks and have very few, if any outlets to break. Counter will see the team sit slightly deeper than you've set and look to break, control will be slightly higher. If you're playing attacking then it pushes it up quite a bit, so if you have an attacking formation - with a high defensive line you're effectively leaving an enormous amount of space. If you're playing counter or defensive with the highest defensive line set up, you're leaving large spaces and effectively sitting your defenders on your now deeper lying midfielders. There are so many subtle nuances it's hard to explain, but generally if you're playing attacking as a mentality you don't need team instructions which then push the defence further up, and if you put instructions then to pull the defence further back you risk creating too large a space between defence and midfield - so if you do that you need to make use of a DM to break up and link up play. Cheers. That kind of makes sense. Always struggled with FM to re create real life tactics because of the interface between human thinking and game terminology. |
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on May 11, 2014 17:36:50 GMT
I use 4-2-3-1 with the wide men being inside forwards and playing with wing backs, needs a lot of pace though, but after winning the league I'm now 12 games in on the next season and haven't won one with my 12 mil striker still yet to score  |
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 11, 2014 21:31:27 GMT
Currently at Swansea after 3 years and two promotions at Pompey (a very good starter club, promotion is almost a certainty with default squads), playing a fluid 4-1-2-2-1 under the control setting.
Playing with a CDM is almost an essential on Football Manager I've found, without one your centre backs tend to be extremely exposed especially if you play with a RAM and a LAM.
Despite some of the criticism it's got, I really enjoy FM14, the match engine is very very subtle and nuanced as Santy says and sometimes even a little tweak can set you on the right path. Overall I love the game, from takeovers to mind games it's a very well made product.
|
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 11, 2014 21:31:57 GMT
I use 4-2-3-1 with the wide men being inside forwards and playing with wing backs, needs a lot of pace though, but after winning the league I'm now 12 games in on the next season and haven't won one with my 12 mil striker still yet to score "Signing X is determined not to let his lack of goals worry him" |
|
|
|
Post by block27row27 on May 12, 2014 12:23:09 GMT
Try and go with a more attacking style of play, and set your creativity to fluid. I tend to play a 4-2-3-1, it works through every level of English league football.
|
|
|
|
Post by fiddlerx on May 13, 2014 23:57:25 GMT
I found this FM more difficult than others also I thought the match processing wasn't as good as previous like almost predictable.
|
|
|
|
Post by chigstoke on May 15, 2014 18:01:00 GMT
If you're learning a new formation for the team, when they become Fluid at all the tactics, they will gel much better. I have never truly played a Football Manager game before but it's a great game this edition. What are people's Stoke teams on it? After August I did two main signings, Trippier and Ings, with Ings on about 8 goals this season now. Simeone Pepe on loan as a DW.  |
|
|
|
Post by santy on May 16, 2014 19:38:44 GMT
Just decided to start a new game up with Stoke as I haven't played with them since the early testing days.  This is the formation I selected, it's basic shape doesn't look too great but: In defense its a very deep 4-4-1-1 as Whelan would drop back alongside N'Zonzi. In attack it quickly switches to a 4-2-3-1, N'Zonzi will come into CM alongside Whelan, Assaidi and Arnautovic have instructions to come narrow and will go into the AMCL and AMCR spot. When actually pushing full on into attack it becomes more of a 4-1-3-2 as Odemwinge has instructions to drift slightly but get forward as well so he will be playing off of Crouch and Whelan will push forward a little further to help support the attack as a BBM. Assaidi and Arnautovic are positioned to prevent the opposition from 2v1's on Pieters or Cameron. The team is set to counter, hit early crosses (catch opposing defenders out of position) and more direct passing (same applies here). One potential problem playing higher up the pitch like Chig is doing is that your full backs can be left enormously exposed, it doesn't always happen but in European away games for example when the home team is looking to press you more, you tend to find you can concede a silly amount of goals as a result. You can have every success with formations higher up the pitch, but its designed in a way that the formation you see is what players are in defensively, and you set instructions to then augment that slightly and for what you want to do in attack. |
|
|
|
Post by santy on May 16, 2014 20:53:28 GMT
Got tonked 4-0 away first game against Chelsea, realised in the first 10 minutes the defensive line was still too high for how Chelsea were playing and needed to be dropped deeper, but I was 2-0 down inside 10 minutes, then a penalty and a corner got them their other two despite it being a lot more solid after that.
Second game was Man City which was a 1-1 draw, removed the direct passing as it had been weak against Chelsea, set Assaidi and Arnautovic to sit narrower as they were still too wide in the first game and Man City spent a lot of time passing it around the back, having to try precise angled balls which were swept up by the defence time after time. Unfortunately late on they were shooting from distance and one crept in but it was far more comfortable.
Lost 1-0 to Newcastle (Pieters gave away another penalty), realised that on higher tempo and with cross early it was catching the opposition out - but it was also catching out my team. Didn't have the pace to get forward quick enough so Crouch was often stranded on his own.
Beat Preston 1-0 comfortably with the reserves with slower tempo, then beat West Brom 2-0 again just with slower tempo but moved Crouch and Odemwingie into the same diagonal line up as Whelan and N'Zonzi - took away Odemwingie's roaming as he was roaming too much to be effective and then beat Palace 1-0.
Hull were up next, beat them 3-0 followed by Southampton away which I won 4-1, Southampton only scored after a deep cross bounced awkwardly and Begovic misjudged it.
Teams can rarely get into the box to have a shot and spend most of their taking long shots or trying to get past the fullback but every time its 2v1 and the opposition has nowhere to go but back inside towards the middle or back to his own fullback.
Since then its been a 2-0 defeat to Liverpool, 2-0 win against Swansea, two 0-0 draws with Arsenal (cup and league) a 2-1 win over Fulham and a 2-0 defeat to Man Utd. Obviously the tactic needs a tweak for against the larger sides but sat in 6th after 12 games on 20 points which isn't too bad I think - especially with such a basic formation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 6:03:48 GMT
I use 4-2-3-1 with the wide men being inside forwards and playing with wing backs, needs a lot of pace though, but after winning the league I'm now 12 games in on the next season and haven't won one with my 12 mil striker still yet to score How's GCam doing for you? ;D |
|
|
|
Post by chigstoke on May 18, 2014 15:04:03 GMT
Just beat Liverpool 4-0 in the FA Cup Semi-Final. Playing 4-2-3-1 balanced counter. Charlie Adam bloody knows how to shoot on this!
|
|
|
|
Post by cartman123 on May 20, 2014 21:42:05 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by justinp on Jun 23, 2014 8:16:29 GMT
I always liked playing 4-4-1-1 on FM, with really big defensive players and a huge target man. Set to play slowly, time waste often, with a deep defensive line, counter attacking and as direct as the slider will go before being completely long ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 5:54:46 GMT
I always liked playing 4-4-1-1 on FM, with really big defensive players and a huge target man. Set to play slowly, time waste often, with a deep defensive line, counter attacking and as direct as the slider will go before being completely long ball. ..and just as I was about to click continue, Kempy would pick up the phone and ring me... |
|
|
|
Post by block27row27 on Jun 24, 2014 11:52:35 GMT
All my teams are fluid as fuck
|
|
|
|
Post by chigstoke on Jun 24, 2014 14:03:23 GMT
I got royally dicked on Football Manager with Stoke after my first season. After winning the FA Cup, and finishing 10th in the league, we were rock fucking bottom after 10 games and I got the sack.
|
|
|
|
Post by block27row27 on Jun 24, 2014 14:45:16 GMT
I got royally dicked on Football Manager with Stoke after my first season. After winning the FA Cup, and finishing 10th in the league, we were rock fucking bottom after 10 games and I got the sack. I always get hit with horrible losing streaks when playing as Stoke. The premier league is generally gash to begin with anyway, love the lower leagues i do |
|
|
|
Post by justinp on Jun 26, 2014 16:41:30 GMT
I always liked playing 4-4-1-1 on FM, with really big defensive players and a huge target man. Set to play slowly, time waste often, with a deep defensive line, counter attacking and as direct as the slider will go before being completely long ball. ..and just as I was about to click continue, Kempy would pick up the phone and ring me... Hah I got Northampton to the premier league playing like this! With Calvin Zola as the target man, until I got to the championship. Except I use a modified 433 really, not 4411, and now in the premier league changed the target man to be a trequartista and scouted youngsters to fit the role with Kevin Doyle as the role model. This is on 2010 though. |
|
|
|
Post by justinp on Jun 26, 2014 16:42:36 GMT
I always liked playing 4-4-1-1 on FM, with really big defensive players and a huge target man. Set to play slowly, time waste often, with a deep defensive line, counter attacking and as direct as the slider will go before being completely long ball. ..and just as I was about to click continue, Kempy would pick up the phone and ring me... Hah I got Northampton to the premier league playing like this! With Calvin Zola as the target man, until I got to the championship. Except I use a modified 433 really, not 4411, and now in the premier league changed the target man to be a trequartista and scouted youngsters to fit the role with Kevin Doyle as the role model. This is on 2010 though. |
|
|
|
Post by justinp on Jun 26, 2014 16:42:47 GMT
I always liked playing 4-4-1-1 on FM, with really big defensive players and a huge target man. Set to play slowly, time waste often, with a deep defensive line, counter attacking and as direct as the slider will go before being completely long ball. ..and just as I was about to click continue, Kempy would pick up the phone and ring me... Hah I got Northampton to the premier league playing like this! With Calvin Zola as the target man, until I got to the championship. Except I use a modified 433 really, not 4411, and now in the premier league changed the target man to be a trequartista and scouted youngsters to fit the role with Kevin Doyle as the role model. This is on 2010 though. |
|
|
|
Post by block27row27 on Jul 7, 2014 7:49:49 GMT
Ok, so I've just been through a rather traumatic experience - I have officially been sacked as Stoke boss. Had a difficult season flirting with relegation, but recently picked up some form with 5 wins in a row which pushed me into tenth place. Then suddenly, I've been sacked... Reason: I didn't drop Jon Walters! I wouldn't be pissed off if I was actually playing him, but he wasn't even on the bench! Fuck you virtual Coates.
|
|
|
|
Post by The battheader chronicles on Jul 12, 2014 19:53:01 GMT
playing as stoke- in my 3rd season finished 9th,7th ( got in Europe) and im on course to finish about 9/10thish. I too suffer from the horrible losing steaks mentioned above, decided to swich from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-4-1-1 to try and sure up defensively. Bit of a tip invest in the training and youth facilities and the academy as a whole got a few really good grads coming though which should save me some money on transfers my team Rivere Piazon Ince ash westwood whight( academy) Starkey ( academy) muni ryan( now got 30 eng caps) robson ( academy) byram( leeds one) Butland ( sold bego) some more player on the way though the academy aswell Happy gaming  |
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Jul 15, 2014 22:00:21 GMT
I play a flat 4-5-1 with wingers and centre mid set to attack, and a false 9 as centre forward. Sounds defensive but it's surprisingly fluid (as long as you have the mentality set to 'fluid' of course).
Best team I've found is:-
Begovic
Wilkinson
Huth
Shawcross
Pieters
Walters (best to sign a RM though)
Cameron
Adam
N'Zonzi
Shea
Arnie
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 16:48:59 GMT
You're all a bunch of "really nice young men'.
Get down the Brit and stop staying in. Kick a football around now and then.
|
|
