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Post by iglugluk on Apr 7, 2014 15:31:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 15:37:41 GMT
out of interest (not trying to be an arse as i don't really care one way or the other), why would we prevent them from being available on prescription? drug users and alcoholics get treatment on the NHS and as the government are so keen (apparently) to be seen to taking postivie action against smoking then what's the issue with smokers who want to give up being given these on prescription? there are other aids given on prescription to help people give up smoking so what's the difference here? as i said, not trying to start an argument, i'm just genuinely interested in what the difference between these and something like Champix is when it comes to giving prescriptions.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 7, 2014 15:46:01 GMT
out of interest (not trying to be an arse as i don't really care one way or the other), why would we prevent them from being available on prescription? drug users and alcoholics get treatment on the NHS and as the government are so keen (apparently) to be seen to taking postivie action against smoking then what's the issue with smokers who want to give up being given these on prescription? there are other aids given on prescription to help people give up smoking so what's the difference here? as i said, not trying to start an argument, i'm just genuinely interested in what the difference between these and something like Champix is when it comes to giving prescriptions. Why do they need to be prescription only?......they're working fine as is and more Govt. control is not the way to go. Inform people and let them make their own decisions , I say. They are better than smoking tobacco and that is not prescription only, afterall. If the Govt. want to provide a prescription version fine but don't medicalise a massive amount of the UK population in the vain attempt at pointless control. Champix is an entirely different thing as its a drug that intended to affect the desire to smoke via some sort of strange mind control and causes shit load of side effects .....one of which causes some users to commit suicide it seems. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 16:06:22 GMT
out of interest (not trying to be an arse as i don't really care one way or the other), why would we prevent them from being available on prescription? drug users and alcoholics get treatment on the NHS and as the government are so keen (apparently) to be seen to taking postivie action against smoking then what's the issue with smokers who want to give up being given these on prescription? there are other aids given on prescription to help people give up smoking so what's the difference here? as i said, not trying to start an argument, i'm just genuinely interested in what the difference between these and something like Champix is when it comes to giving prescriptions. Why do they need to be prescription only?......they're working fine as is and more Govt. control is not the way to go. Inform people and let them make their own decisions , I say. They are better than smoking tobacco and that is not prescription only, afterall. If the Govt. want to provide a prescription version fine but don't medicalise a massive amount of the UK population in the vain attempt at pointless control. Champix is an entirely different thing as its a drug that intended to affect the desire to smoke via some sort of strange mind control and causes shit load of side effects .....one of which causes some users to commit suicide it seems. aaah sorry.. you actually answered my question in the first few words. i thought the petition was to stop them being on prescription in general, i didn't realise that they were planning to make prescriptions to be the only source though i.e. stop selling them to anyone as they do now. i understand now, ta |
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Post by starkiller on Apr 7, 2014 18:17:04 GMT
Is anyone else sick of being told everything they can do by governments?
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 8, 2014 11:41:32 GMT
Is anyone else sick of being told everything they can do by governments? Some fall on stoney ground, it seems.... |
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Post by oatcakesteve on Apr 16, 2014 23:19:46 GMT
Anyone noticed the recent, and regular it seems, negative press with regards to these? They have taken off in a big way and the government don't like the lost revenue. E cigs will explode and burn your house down. What a load of fucking horse shit propaganda. On the one hand, we have them telling us to quit smoking. On the other, when we find a good substitute that has taken off in a huge way, they don't like it. Can't interfere with government income I suppose. Politicians make me want to puke on their heads, then suck up the remains. The Fly anyone? Fuck em, expenses for this, expenses for that, God forbid the common man finds a way to help himself for the better financially and healthily. No, the government will try to fuck it up if there is nothing in it for them. Might as well have Kim Jong Un in charge. Wankers.
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Post by Northy on Apr 17, 2014 7:18:33 GMT
out of interest (not trying to be an arse as i don't really care one way or the other), why would we prevent them from being available on prescription? drug users and alcoholics get treatment on the NHS and as the government are so keen (apparently) to be seen to taking postivie action against smoking then what's the issue with smokers who want to give up being given these on prescription? there are other aids given on prescription to help people give up smoking so what's the difference here? as i said, not trying to start an argument, i'm just genuinely interested in what the difference between these and something like Champix is when it comes to giving prescriptions. Why do they need to be prescription only?......they're working fine as is and more Govt. control is not the way to go. Inform people and let them make their own decisions , I say. They are better than smoking tobacco and that is not prescription only, afterall. If the Govt. want to provide a prescription version fine but don't medicalise a massive amount of the UK population in the vain attempt at pointless control. Champix is an entirely different thing as its a drug that intended to affect the desire to smoke via some sort of strange mind control and causes shit load of side effects .....one of which causes some users to commit suicide it seems. "let them make their own decisions" bad choice, that happened once and they started smoking  |
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Post by salopstick on Apr 17, 2014 10:18:24 GMT
I'd love the government to create a law that stated you needed proof of ID with every cigarette purchase. Born after 31 dec 2004 should never ever be allowed to buy tobacco *
*there has to be a cut off somewhere,
I know from experience there are certain points when people first start smoking, take those away and you drastically reduce the start up in first place
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 11:20:19 GMT
You don't have to try very hard to be precisely that Millsy.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 11:22:22 GMT
Might as well have Kim Jong Un in charge. Wankers. Step in the right direction i'd say. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 11:31:01 GMT
Igs, what is this about? Why are more signatures better if somebody is interested? What is off medical prescription and on sale about? |
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 17, 2014 15:16:54 GMT
Igs, what is this about? Why are more signatures better if somebody is interested? What is off medical prescription and on sale about? Sorry don't understand your questions..please clarify. The post seems pretty self-explanatory to me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:30:31 GMT
Sorry, was having a blonde moment. Do you mean you can buy these things now over the counter currently and it's being proposed to make them available as a prescription item only? What is the reason for that?
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 17, 2014 15:32:14 GMT
I'd love the government to create a law that stated you needed proof of ID with every cigarette purchase. Born after 31 dec 2004 should never ever be allowed to buy tobacco * *there has to be a cut off somewhere, I know from experience there are certain points when people first start smoking, take those away and you drastically reduce the start up in first place Just sounds like more government control to me, also it would just serve to create a whole new swathe of young criminals.......plus it would present a wonderful opportunity for the creation of a new and very lucrative black market. I would say that good education is the best way to effect proper and reasonable social change, personally. |
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 17, 2014 15:37:58 GMT
Sorry, was having a blonde moment. Do you mean you can buy these things now over the counter currently and it's being proposed to make them available as a prescription item only? What is the reason for that? Yes at the moment they are freely available off of prescription ( as they should be ) but there are moves afoot to change this. The reason?...........an exercise in pointless control ( nothing unusual there! ) ...some sort of unreasoned and irrational hatred of nicotine..... creating a side show so that unhappy members of the UK public have a scape-goat issue to pin their dissatisfaction on. I cannot really understand the logic at all tbh. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:53:37 GMT
Sorry, was having a blonde moment. Do you mean you can buy these things now over the counter currently and it's being proposed to make them available as a prescription item only? What is the reason for that? Yes at the moment they are freely available off of prescription ( as they should be ) but there are moves afoot to change this. The reason?...........an exercise in pointless control ( nothing unusual there! ) ...some sort of unreasoned and irrational hatred of nicotine..... creating a side show so that unhappy members of the UK public have a scape-goat issue to pin their dissatisfaction on. I cannot really understand the logic at all tbh. I've never really discussed these things with anyone, in fact i've only ever seen one in action. That was on a bus trip to Malaysia and the driver went nuts even after the bloke explained that it wasn't actually a real fag. Are they a good solution for folks who want to give up smoking? |
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 17, 2014 18:17:57 GMT
Yes at the moment they are freely available off of prescription ( as they should be ) but there are moves afoot to change this. The reason?...........an exercise in pointless control ( nothing unusual there! ) ...some sort of unreasoned and irrational hatred of nicotine..... creating a side show so that unhappy members of the UK public have a scape-goat issue to pin their dissatisfaction on. I cannot really understand the logic at all tbh. I've never really discussed these things with anyone, in fact i've only ever seen one in action. That was on a bus trip to Malaysia and the driver went nuts even after the bloke explained that it wasn't actually a real fag. Are they a good solution for folks who want to give up smoking? Yes there is no doubt about that..............tbh they're also considerably better even if one doesn't wish to quit!! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 18:27:53 GMT
E-cigarettes are not only an aid to stop smoking; they are an alternative to fags for people who don't actually want to give up. My Mrs has no intention if packing in, and has been on e-cigs for about 12 months.
Why make them prescription-only? Apart from the obvious?
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Post by salopstick on Apr 17, 2014 18:33:42 GMT
I'd love the government to create a law that stated you needed proof of ID with every cigarette purchase. Born after 31 dec 2004 should never ever be allowed to buy tobacco * *there has to be a cut off somewhere, I know from experience there are certain points when people first start smoking, take those away and you drastically reduce the start up in first place Just sounds like more government control to me, also it would just serve to create a whole new swathe of young criminals.......plus it would present a wonderful opportunity for the creation of a new and very lucrative black market. I would say that good education is the best way to effect proper and reasonable social change, personally. Education has done nothing so far Smoking is a disgusting habit that kills No government can ban it out right so let's wean the populous off it I smoked on off currently off for over 20 years, would be devastated if my kids started |
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Post by salopstick on Apr 17, 2014 18:34:32 GMT
E-cigarettes are not only an aid to stop smoking; they are an alternative to fags for people who don't actually want to give up. My Mrs has no intention if packing in, and has been on e-cigs for about 12 months. Why make them prescription-only? Apart from the obvious? I've been on mine (with no fags) since Norwich at home in september |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 18:43:51 GMT
If you want to stop smoking then stop. Fuck me, is it really so hard for some people?
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 18, 2014 11:35:07 GMT
Just sounds like more government control to me, also it would just serve to create a whole new swathe of young criminals.......plus it would present a wonderful opportunity for the creation of a new and very lucrative black market. I would say that good education is the best way to effect proper and reasonable social change, personally. Education has done nothing so far Smoking is a disgusting habit that kills No government can ban it out right so let's wean the populous off it I smoked on off currently off for over 20 years, would be devastated if my kids started I'm sorry I just do not agree, your solution will just create another uncontrollable black market as I have asserted. Creating a ban is just counter-productive and let's face it the pressure from society that is already around smoking is already reducing the number of smokers hugely...hence e-cigs and this discussion. A ban ( which is tantamount to making tobacco illegal let's face it ) would just create a legal minefield and have little other effect than criminalising loads more people in the UK population............I'm sticking with education and social pressure, personally, as it's already working. PS I am interested in your "like" for corned beef legs' post above ....you seem to agree with allowing people who do not want to give up smoking tobacco a better alternative to inhaling combusted material, as do I. |
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 18, 2014 11:40:56 GMT
E-cigarettes are not only an aid to stop smoking; they are an alternative to fags for people who don't actually want to give up. My Mrs has no intention if packing in, and has been on e-cigs for about 12 months. Why make them prescription-only? Apart from the obvious? Yes and that's what the petition above is all about, it seems. |
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Post by salopstick on Apr 18, 2014 11:53:20 GMT
Education has done nothing so far Smoking is a disgusting habit that kills No government can ban it out right so let's wean the populous off it I smoked on off currently off for over 20 years, would be devastated if my kids started I'm sorry I just do not agree, your solution will just create another uncontrollable black market as I have asserted. Creating a ban is just counter-productive and let's face it the pressure from society that is already around smoking is already reducing the number of smokers hugely...hence e-cigs and this discussion. A ban ( which is tantamount to making tobacco illegal let's face it ) would just create a legal minefield and have little other effect than criminalising loads more people in the UK population............I'm sticking with education and social pressure, personally, as it's already working. PS I am interested in your "like" for corned beef legs' post above ....you seem to agree with allowing people who do not want to give up smoking tobacco a better alternative to inhaling combusted material, as do I. Having been a smoker for over 22 years I've tried everything you name it champix, zyban, patches etc. eluquid is the only thing that has kept me off the things. I don't believe in the hysteria as they have so many advantages over fags, money, smell, social without even considering any health benefits. I think we need the same age, and other restrictions on e fags because we don't want our kids to start them. That the government can do The only people worried about ecigs are the government and the fag companies due to revenue, it has got so big that it will be impossible for the government to tax them but if ecigs bring down health costs the lost revenue shouldn't matter. Unless successive governments have been lying about the actual costs smokers cost the nhs We will never make all the smokers give up, you have to accept that but if we make it impossible for new smokers to start there will not be that much of a black market for illegal fags. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 18, 2014 12:26:07 GMT
In doing some digging into the feasibility of growing my own tobacco, partly cost, partly to attempt to eradicate potential chemical contamination, and also just for the heck of it, I came across an interesting native Brit plant: Tussilago Farfara.
The growing of tobacco plants is less of an issue than the boiling, curing, drying and general processing from plant to snout... just not that practical.
In doing my research I became aware of the mighty Coltsfoot, 'Sun Before the Father', of hedgerows, damp places and wasteland.
Microwaved and rolled into a 'wool' it's a cracking smoke.
It has been used for centuries as a cure for lung/breathing complaints, and contains a 'nicotine suppressant' {attaches itself to the brain receptors that crave nicotine or some such.}
It was used widely during the Second World when Transatlantic Blockades meant that Tobacco became scarce in Britain.
You can still get Coltsfoot rock for coughs, and until the smoking ban you could buy Coltsfoot fags from chemists. {A chemist mate said there was a Govt directive to get rid of all stocks when the pub/work smoking ban came into force- wrong message for a chemist to sell fags.}
I'm sure they would have been better than E-fags. The only research I've found that indicates any harm was a women who 'overdosed' on Coltsfoot tea and ended up poisoning her liver.
I havn't found an effective way to store enough for winter smoking, so it's a bit of a seasonal pleasure.
It works for me, but it's not for the faint hearted, it wiffs of Ganja.
The only 'high' is placebo.
You can mix it with dried mint if menthols your thing.
I'm offering info, not particularly advocating it. Personal choice.. it's a free country... oh wait...
We're approaching that time of year for fag foraging for me, not just dimp picking.
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Post by stockportstokie on Apr 18, 2014 12:46:34 GMT
E-cigs are dodgy as fuck.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 12:47:01 GMT
Should they be on prescription ? No
Do they need regulating ? Yes
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 18, 2014 14:24:28 GMT
I'm sorry I just do not agree, your solution will just create another uncontrollable black market as I have asserted. Creating a ban is just counter-productive and let's face it the pressure from society that is already around smoking is already reducing the number of smokers hugely...hence e-cigs and this discussion. A ban ( which is tantamount to making tobacco illegal let's face it ) would just create a legal minefield and have little other effect than criminalising loads more people in the UK population............I'm sticking with education and social pressure, personally, as it's already working. PS I am interested in your "like" for corned beef legs' post above ....you seem to agree with allowing people who do not want to give up smoking tobacco a better alternative to inhaling combusted material, as do I. Having been a smoker for over 22 years I've tried everything you name it champix, zyban, patches etc. eluquid is the only thing that has kept me off the things. I don't believe in the hysteria as they have so many advantages over fags, money, smell, social without even considering any health benefits. I think we need the same age, and other restrictions on e fags because we don't want our kids to start them. That the government can do The only people worried about ecigs are the government and the fag companies due to revenue, it has got so big that it will be impossible for the government to tax them but if ecigs bring down health costs the lost revenue shouldn't matter. Unless successive governments have been lying about the actual costs smokers cost the nhs We will never make all the smokers give up, you have to accept that but if we make it impossible for new smokers to start there will not be that much of a black market for illegal fags. The thing is Salop only in an ideal World is it possible to make it impossible for new smokers to start...............the reality is that various Govts. have tried this with various prohibition drives over the last century and without fail they have all failed. Seems pointless to me to carry on with an approach that hasn't ever worked. |
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 18, 2014 14:29:24 GMT
In doing some digging into the feasibility of growing my own tobacco, partly cost, partly to attempt to eradicate potential chemical contamination, and also just for the heck of it, I came across an interesting native Brit plant: Tussilago Farfara. The growing of tobacco plants is less of an issue than the boiling, curing, drying and general processing from plant to snout... just not that practical. In doing my research I became aware of the mighty Coltsfoot, 'Sun Before the Father', of hedgerows, damp places and wasteland. Microwaved and rolled into a 'wool' it's a cracking smoke. It has been used for centuries as a cure for lung/breathing complaints, and contains a 'nicotine suppressant' {attaches itself to the brain receptors that crave nicotine or some such.} It was used widely during the Second World when Transatlantic Blockades meant that Tobacco became scarce in Britain. You can still get Coltsfoot rock for coughs, and until the smoking ban you could buy Coltsfoot fags from chemists. {A chemist mate said there was a Govt directive to get rid of all stocks when the pub/work smoking ban came into force- wrong message for a chemist to sell fags.} I'm sure they would have been better than E-fags. The only research I've found that indicates any harm was a women who 'overdosed' on Coltsfoot tea and ended up poisoning her liver. I havn't found an effective way to store enough for winter smoking, so it's a bit of a seasonal pleasure. It works for me, but it's not for the faint hearted, it wiffs of Ganja. The only 'high' is placebo. You can mix it with dried mint if menthols your thing. I'm offering info, not particularly advocating it. Personal choice.. it's a free country... oh wait... We're approaching that time of year for fag foraging for me, not just dimp picking. You can buy coltsfoot from various herbal medicine suppliers i.e. Baldwins.............that might enable your pleasure to be a bit less seasonal. Still that said maybe you like the 'seasonality' thing, in which case more power to you and all that. "Personal choice..free country" well it certainly should be eh?... but as you say...if only!!  |
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