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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 7, 2004 16:35:26 GMT
For several home games now TP has been using away tactics at home
Starts the match tight allowing the away team plenty of possesion.
Stoke break away and take the lead..... repeat
Stoke in last 30 minutes fall back and soak up pressure
Is this because;
TP is careful/fearful for our weakened midfield...... or
TP is canny and knows how to squeeze out results.... or
TP is still playing safe until he has got his 54 points to stave off relegation?
One advantage is that Tone doesn't have to change tactics home or away....
Royle was furious that Stoke were playing on the break last week when we should have pushed forward and given Ipswich a chance..... mard sod!
Will Tone change his tactics if we keep on winning and really go for it?
One downside to the home tactics is that you go away from the match slightly deflated having anticipated a hammering that never came
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Post by Vodkab1ock on Mar 7, 2004 16:38:41 GMT
????? suspose he'll change his tactics when they stop working.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 7, 2004 16:42:35 GMT
Good point Or if Ade is unfit........................... Noticable that as soon as Ade goes off, the opposing team is able to push forward more
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 7, 2004 16:43:20 GMT
I think its because it gets results.
It has been a weird season all round - I can't remember anything quite like it. Our dip in form after the first few games found us in the bottom three after the Cardiff home game. TP had not much choice but to try to grind out results (especially with Taggart;s arrival and the West Ham game showing it could be done). Ok we are now close to the playoff zone but his squad is still not as strong as he would like so why change a winning formula.
Its similar in some respects to our run at the end of last season - although it works better and is more attractive than last year because the squad is much better and players such as Hooky are on much better form.
I bet if we had found ourselves in comfortable mid table by Christmas our tactics would have been different since - with perhaps some better wins but more than the single defeat.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 7, 2004 16:50:04 GMT
Well TP won't be able to use the relegation card for much longer...... so that he can indeed go for it if he wants to? It will be interesting to see how we go on away now ..... I believe that his current style is very suited to away games - especially if we get Eustace back Mind - our current form is championship form..... so why change at all ???
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Post by tel2u on Mar 7, 2004 17:26:20 GMT
Why change something that is working?
We are a long way off from being an Arsenal, Chelsea or Manure, we'll thrash teams when we've progressed from where we are now.
The system is working, it may not be very pretty to watch buts its effective and has transformed the team from relegation candidates into genuine play off contenders, now that can't be bad, and its a refreshing change.
The other teams in the league must be more than just a little worried about playing us, because no longer are we the contributor of 3 points to every team we play.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 7, 2004 17:36:20 GMT
Perhaps I am getting greedy but...........
For the floating supporter (and kids) - spending the last half hour of the match defending is less than positive but...
Perhaps as you say, we aren't good enough to push forward in the last third of the game
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Post by lurcherthelurker on Mar 7, 2004 17:37:11 GMT
the wiseone wrote: So why ask the stupid question in the first place? And this after we have only lost once in 13 games, what will people be like if we lose 2 on the trot? they'll be suicidal wont they? Arsenal were known at one time as a boring Arsenal, but it was effective !! ask George Graham if he thinks TP has got it right. I give up with some people i really do. call yourself the Wisemaster? That was as stupid a question as I'm ever likely to encounter ;D
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Post by BigDick on Mar 7, 2004 18:50:24 GMT
and maybe he is just waiting to get Eustace back in midfield and leave out either Hall or Clarke. Bloody hell, 1 defeat in 13, 9 wins and some people say he is negative ??? Give me strength ;D
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 8, 2004 9:18:36 GMT
Maybe he is testing these tactics for when we are in the Prem.
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Post by RobPa on Mar 8, 2004 9:23:56 GMT
why change them when ure winning!!
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 8, 2004 9:33:17 GMT
Paul...it's not pretty....it isn't crowd pulling.....it can be frustrating to those who have paid their money to be entertained, but it is effective. There has been no greater critic of TP's tactics than me, but even I have have to conceded that it really is the results that matter at the moment. I think you left out one vital point in your summary, we have also had a lot of luck in our games. Wigan came and had an off day and other teams have not punished us when they should. Add to that some good keeping from our two keepers and it puts into perspective the real balance of the last few games. The only time our luck left us was at Palace. But, all successful teams have that luck. It really does play a vital part. My verdict on the current situation is....'more of the same please' even though I did leave the ground apreciating our win but feeling slightly deflated at the entertainment. Curse those two bloody strikers though! I had a fiver on GNW to score first and Stoke to win 3-1. That would have netted me £250 or thereabouts.!!!! Mick.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 8, 2004 9:41:28 GMT
Rex
You are so full of your own pomposity I wouldn't even expect you to understand the question
Other people not so blinded by their self importance might understand
TP has been playing the team very deep for the last few months on the basis, I guess, that what you have you hold - and it has worked
Or has he got away with it? Against Wigan who were down to ten men it didn't work and we could well have lost all three points
For me its the same as eleven men back at corners. I can understand TP playing it tight when we are in front but he plays the team far too deeply, inviting in the opposition - a high risk strategy
The answer must be that TP doesn't believe that we are yet strong enough to walk over even average teams like Watford
And he's probably right. I'm not complaining - its just an observation.
I like TP who has worked wonders for us and would like to believe that as the team improves he will become even more positive
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 8, 2004 9:46:07 GMT
Oldstokie, I think you're being a bit harsh on the boys. These teams have been made to look 'below par' by our superstars in red and white ;D ;D I was thinking the other day about what 'luck' we've had this season. I would say that it's been fairly even. At the start of the season, especially away from home, we had terrible luck. We had games that we could have drawn but the ball come off the woodwork and bounced to safety (Ipswich and Wigan away from home come to mind). But, co-inciding with our good form, we have began to be a bit more lucky. Wigan could have scored a few and Walsalls disallowed goal in the last minute (I know the guy was offside but how many times have we seen the flag stay down when someone is an offside posistion). All in all, i think it's a case of what goes around has come around for us this season.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 8, 2004 9:55:13 GMT
Mick - as Rip Roaring said - I reckon we have deserved our luck of late
Maybe I have got so used to seeing us win I am getting greedy and want entertainment as well
Certainly you need both to really pull in the crowds which have been a little disappointing in the last few games
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Post by Admin on Mar 8, 2004 10:00:49 GMT
On the issue of luck - I'll find you moments of outrageous bad luck to go with any good stuff we've had.
Last minyte woodwork v. Ipswich Last minute woodwork v. Wigan Handball penalty not given v. Millwall Incredible penalty not given at Walsall The ENTIRE game at home to Sheffield Utd Asaba's incorreect sending off v. Burnley when we were back in the game
If we've had more good luck than that then I'd be amazed. I'd reckon we're probably not far short of breaking even.
Cheers,
Smudge
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Post by RobPa on Mar 8, 2004 10:07:40 GMT
memba west brom handball
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Post by onewaynebiggins on Mar 8, 2004 13:09:26 GMT
I like the way we play to be honest.
We let teams play as much as they want in their own half or on the half way line. ( all the while we are regrouping and getting into the right area's )By the time they get into our final third,they are being hassled and closed down, if they lose possetion or play a poor pass, we are in an excellent position to counter. An excellent tactic if you have a good defence and lots of pace throughout your team. With the addition of Gerry I would say we have a good defence....and the current stoke side has more pace in it than we have had for a VERY long time.
onewaynebiggins
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 8, 2004 13:19:16 GMT
OWB As you are a defender of some distinction I respect your opinion. I don't mind the tactics but........ don't you think we are defending too deep? Not so much on Saturday but against Ipswich and Wigan we were allowing them into the box far too often Against Wigan, not only did they score but panic set in And Ipswich had far too many chances late on and could easily have pinched a draw
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Post by onewaynebiggins on Mar 8, 2004 13:34:47 GMT
Wise one, We do defend deep, but I think we are trying to get teams to commit men forward, to allow us to counter with the pace we have in Ade etc, I honestly think that if we had Gerry in the match against Wigan, we would of got all three points, their break through came when they had given up trying to pass through us, they were a man down and started to bombard us with crosses. I honestly could'nt see Ipswich scoring against us, after we had gone 2-0 up. I think our first goal on saturday typified the tactics we are playing at the moment, the good thing about it is... West Brom came from nowhere to get promoted playing exactly the same tactics a few years ago! onewaynebiggins
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 8, 2004 13:43:12 GMT
Thats funny! ;D
I said to my fellow Stokie in the office that it will be interesting to see the tactics against West Brom
Pulis and Megson are from the same 'percentage football' mould
We will both have eleven men back with Ade and Hulse on their own on the half way line! ;D
PS - and I thought Ipswich had plenty of good chances in the second half and should have scored
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Post by onewaynebiggins on Mar 8, 2004 13:57:31 GMT
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Post by penkvillepotter on Mar 8, 2004 13:59:33 GMT
The original thread raises a few good points - perhaps we shouldn't get too greedy. After all - we the converted on here are Stokies first and foremost and I'm sure 99.9% of us would rather see us win a poor game than lose a good one. Let us fully appreciate what's going on at the moment.
Never mind the 54 points TP says we need, we all know we are safe now and this would/could be an opportune to 'throw the shackles off' so to speak and really take it to the opposition.
If we were to do this, (and as many say if it ain't broke why fix it?) it would be interesting to see the comments if went gung ho and lost the next 3 games.
Interesting topic though and speaking as someone who can't go to the TP love in tonight at Florence this would be worth exploring. I'd love to know TP's thought's on this.
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Post by Admin on Mar 8, 2004 14:46:22 GMT
PP, Interesting points mate! Although he isn't shouting his mouth off about it perhaps Tony Pulis reckons our best way of making it into the play-offs is by playing exactly as we are right now? Maybe TP is also thinking along the line sof "if it ain't broke don't fix it? I'm gonna trust him on this one - he's been getting it right almost non-stop since the beginning of December and I'm just sitting back and loving those wins coming our way! Smudge PS ~ Good call on that Koumas handball at West Brom Robpa... clean forget about that unbelievable decision. At least the player himself and the Baggies fans were honest enough to own up to it afterwards.
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Post by Pricey on Mar 8, 2004 14:50:31 GMT
Wasn't there a handball at Palace as well, along with a dodgy first penalty and Styles generally being crap? Having him as a referee in a game like that is surely very unlucky as well?
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Post by seth on Mar 8, 2004 14:57:29 GMT
PP, Interesting points mate! Although he isn't shouting his mouth off about it perhaps Tony Pulis reckons our best way of making it into the play-offs is by playing exactly as we are right now? Maybe TP is also thinking along the line sof "if it ain't broke don't fix it? I'm gonna trust him on this one - he's been getting it right almost non-stop since the beginning of December and I'm just sitting back and loving those wins coming our way! Smudge PS ~ Good call on that Koumas handball at West Brom Robpa... clean forget about that unbelievable decision. At least the player himself and the Baggies fans were honest enough to own up to it afterwards. Have to agree, seems to have got things about right. We're winning. Sadly I don't get to many games so can't speak for the entertainment value. However I reckon TP is just keeping things quiet, hoping we can ghost our way into the playoffs without anyone really noticing. And to be fair we have quite a tough period coming up, so I guess he wants to see where we are after that.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 8, 2004 15:03:02 GMT
No and I'm not complaining either! - just a tactics debate
If we continued the recent 13 match form through a whole season - we would have 105 points!!!!
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 8, 2004 15:24:43 GMT
Smudge,
I think you said earlier in the season after one of the refereeing shaftings that we would need 3 dodgy penalties and several missed handballs. Can't remember having any of them yet. Perhaps we've still got them in reserve. ;D
It does seemed to have evened up slightly though and Darel's lack of red card is testement to that.
Talking of going "gun ho" perhaps its also a question of Pulis realising its not a race but a Marathon. Why bust a gut when Watford are hardly troubling you? Save it up for when you need it...
Spider
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 8, 2004 15:35:53 GMT
Talking of being entertained I think it all boils down to your take on things. I was genuinely entertained in how we kept Watford at bay on Saturday. Ok it may not "look pretty" but it sure was effective and that entertained me. I'm not sure if I'd want to watch it week-in-week out but I honestly don't think I will with TP. Each game is taking a certain format at the moment. That is mainly down to the fact that we have scored early doors. If you're two-three up do you risk and go for it or do you try and stifle? Our current plan is the latter. I've no problems with this as it seems to bring in more points than it loses.
I dare say Arsenal fans were still being "entertained" whilst their players danced around Pompey well after the 5th goal went in. For anyone else it was probably the dullest football they've watched all week.
We can't have 4-3 thrillers each week. If several of our games mean the goal-scoring action is coming to a close after 60 mins--- that's fine by me!
Spider
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 8, 2004 16:19:34 GMT
Would have to agree with RRP. Earlier on, lady luck was absent. Now she's not. Swings and roundabouts. I also think we are earning our luck because of the efforts on the field. The lads are putting in a tremendous amount of effort. No one more emphasizes that point to me than Hooky. The lad is a revelation this season and shows just how much his injuries have cost us in the past. More of the same please but TP, PLEASE allow Hooky to do a bit of 'showboating' late in the game. That itself is worth the admission fee. OS.
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