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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 12:39:10 GMT
To attack or not attack, that is the question.
Ukraine and the rest of the world really is stuck between a rock and a hard place here I think.
If I was Ukrainian, I'd like to think we'd shoot any enemy helicopter down that didn't take heed of our warnings but then I wouldn't want that provoking a Russian invasion, as that's exactly what they'd want. It's a tough one.
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Post by desman2 on Mar 2, 2014 13:03:37 GMT
The Problem is Putin. Hes a nutcase who thinks his ego is bigger than any common sense.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 13:49:12 GMT
The Problem is Putin. Hes a nutcase who thinks his ego is bigger than any common sense. He still thinks it's the Soviet Union .....He knows there can be no military intervention from the west ...we can make as much noise in protest as we like , it will have little effect , the Ukranians have to stand up for themselves , the problem being that they have no chance of doing this with any hope of success only great loss of life , their other alternative is to let the Russians have their own way and stand idly by ......whichever option they choose they are the losers |
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Post by mermaidsal on Mar 2, 2014 13:57:39 GMT
But can you honestly see a big international response if Putin (re)annexes the Eastern Ukraine? Unless we're going to fight the Crimean War all over again? Call me cynical but from here this is looking like a done deal to me...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 14:02:16 GMT
I think we need to something because Putin needs to be bought down a level or two but what?
Obama is just looking increasingly weak and feeble.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:09:17 GMT
But can you honestly see a big international response if Putin (re)annexes the Eastern Ukraine? Unless we're going to fight the Crimean War all over again? Call me cynical but from here this is looking like a done deal to me... No mate lots of word only ......that's all it can be , anything else can only result in the unthinkable occurring if we are not careful |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:09:25 GMT
Leave'm to it....nowt but trouble the east....let's hope they fight each other into extinction
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:13:11 GMT
I think we need to something because Putin needs to be bought down a level or two but what? Obama is just looking increasingly weak and feeble. What can the US and Britain do to affect anything after a humiliating back down over Syria ? Putin knows this and he will take matters as far as he wishes , safe in the knowledge that he can do |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:14:35 GMT
Leave'm to it....nowt but trouble the east....let's hope they fight each other into extinction We can only leave them to it mate , what else can we do only protest ? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:16:14 GMT
"War" declared by Russia, according to Ukraine Interim Prime Minister
(probably politics, but ...)
"Russia has the right to defend Russian assets and citizens" say them (Serbs said much the same)
Vlad betting US and Europe dither for a week or so - And they usually do ...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 14:16:37 GMT
I think we need to something because Putin needs to be bought down a level or two but what? Obama is just looking increasingly weak and feeble. What can the US and Britain do to affect anything after a humiliating back down over Syria ? Putin knows this and he will take matters as far as he wishes , safe in the knowledge that he can do Oh I know, I'd still send an aircraft carrier up the Bosphorus though. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:22:13 GMT
Leave'm to it....nowt but trouble the east....let's hope they fight each other into extinction We can only leave them to it mate , what else can we do only protest ? I wouldn't even protest Bish |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:39:33 GMT
What can the US and Britain do to affect anything after a humiliating back down over Syria ? Putin knows this and he will take matters as far as he wishes , safe in the knowledge that he can do Oh I know, I'd still send an aircraft carrier up the Bosphorus though. To what end mate ? .......it would only escalate the situation to a point that no one wants it to get reach |
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Post by greenhoff74 on Mar 2, 2014 14:41:03 GMT
Never mind eh at least we won't have to worry about U-boats blockading our food and energy supplies, all they have to do is turn off the tap!
Our energy supplies dependant on a foreign power and dodgy one at that, Winston Churchill will turning in his grave.
Globalisation bollocks we'll see how long that lasts.[/quote]
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 14:45:24 GMT
Oh I know, I'd still send an aircraft carrier up the Bosphorus though. To what end mate ? .......it would only escalate the situation to a point that no one wants it to get reach A threat, pure and simple. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:47:34 GMT
That is never going to happen though is it ? Why would Russia attempt to intimidate states that are now in the EU ? It would not be in their interest to do so .....this situation is different all together ....they would not have taken this action if they knew they couldn't carry it off .....everybody knew it was bound to happen even in the Ukraine
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:50:34 GMT
To what end mate ? .......it would only escalate the situation to a point that no one wants it to get reach A threat, pure and simple. You have to be very careful before you start issuing threads of that magnitude ......unless you are willing to risk the threat of all out war between the West and Russia .....I think not mate |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 14:52:46 GMT
A threat, pure and simple. You have to be very careful before you start issuing threads of that magnitude ......unless you are willing to risk the threat of all out war between the West and Russia .....I think not mate Just like the Russians are? They wouldn't do anything because they know they'd lose any subsequent war. Mutually assured destruction is a great tool of diplomacy, at the minute the west appear to be getting shafted. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 14:55:17 GMT
Never mind eh at least we won't have to worry about U-boats blockading our food and energy supplies, all they have to do is turn off the tap! Our energy supplies dependant on a foreign power and dodgy one at that, Winston Churchill will turning in his grave. Globalisation bollocks we'll see how long that lasts. [/quote] And turn off the tap is exactly what would only happen in the extremist of circumstances ......Russia doesn't want to lose customers for its gas and it's customers don't want to lose their gas ....they will keep on postulating , but it's unlikely to happen |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:03:16 GMT
You have to be very careful before you start issuing threads of that magnitude ......unless you are willing to risk the threat of all out war between the West and Russia .....I think not mate Just like the Russians are? They wouldn't do anything because they know they'd lose any subsequent war. Mutually assured destruction is a great tool of diplomacy, at the minute the west appear to be getting shafted. The Russians are not risking the threat ...they know we won't take any form of military action on behalf of the Ukraine ......The mutually assured destruction scenario is not applicable here ....neither side is going initialise a nuclear exchange over this , the only people who are being shafted are the Ukranians , but there is little to be done about it , a similar situation to the one that happened to Poland in 1939 and we all know what the end result of that was |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 15:08:29 GMT
Just like the Russians are? They wouldn't do anything because they know they'd lose any subsequent war. Mutually assured destruction is a great tool of diplomacy, at the minute the west appear to be getting shafted. The Russians are not risking the threat ...they know we won't take any form of military action on behalf of the Ukraine ......The mutually assured destruction scenario is not applicable here ....neither side is going initialise a nuclear exchange over this , the only people who are being shafted are the Ukranians , but there is little to be done about it , a similar situation to the one that happened to Poland in 1939 and we all know what the end result of that was Yes but at least showing a potential hand will get them thinking a bit. Especially as it's backed up with air bases in Turkey, they know the Yanks could throw a lot of hardware up if they wanted to. And that threat could be enough, it's certainly better than letting the Russians take the piss imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:14:34 GMT
That is never going to happen though is it ? Why would Russia attempt to intimidate states that are now in the EU ? It would not be in their interest to do so .....this situation is different all together ....they would not have taken this action if they knew they couldn't carry it off .....everybody knew it was bound to happen even in the Ukraine Spot on, bish. The West isn't going to get into a war over a country with no treaties or agreements with any one. And the Ukraine isn't going to get into a war with Russia because it doesn't have the capabilities. Vlad's just behaving impolitely. Really, question is whether Vlad will agree to some form of autonomy for the "Western" Ukraine. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:27:21 GMT
The Russians are not risking the threat ...they know we won't take any form of military action on behalf of the Ukraine ......The mutually assured destruction scenario is not applicable here ....neither side is going initialise a nuclear exchange over this , the only people who are being shafted are the Ukranians , but there is little to be done about it , a similar situation to the one that happened to Poland in 1939 and we all know what the end result of that was Yes but at least showing a potential hand will get them thinking a bit. Especially as it's backed up with air bases in Turkey, they know the Yanks could throw a lot of hardware up if they wanted to. And that threat could be enough, it's certainly better than letting the Russians take the piss imo. It won't mate ....don't worry Putin is more than aware of the capabilities that the Americans posses and what they could do if need be sabre rattling in this instance is just pointless |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 15:31:05 GMT
Well he's already crossed a line imo. The diplomacy appears not to be working, it's time to put a bit of real clout behind it imo. I wonder if those two US destroyers that were there for the Olympics are still there? It's a good start if they are.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:36:30 GMT
Oh I know, I'd still send an aircraft carrier up the Bosphorus though. To what end mate ? .......it would only escalate the situation to a point that no one wants it to get reach I doubt it Bish....they'd burst out laughing as we have no planes to put on an aircraft carrier |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:37:27 GMT
Well he's already crossed a line imo. The diplomacy appears not to be working, it's time to put a bit of real clout behind it imo. I wonder if those two US destroyers that were there for the Olympics are still there? It's a good start if they are. There's no chance, Bayern A few cancelled invites, a few meaningless sanctions ... for a few months, just to be polite. Billy Hague has just flown out, no doubt to say the whole world is right behind them, politically and morally, and strongly suggest the temporary Ukraine government hot foot it to Moscow and beg enter constructive talks with the Russians, as soon as possible. |
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Post by desman2 on Mar 2, 2014 15:41:00 GMT
The trouble with Putin is that no fucker in Russia likes him. Maybe hes shit scared of the same thing that happened to his poodle happening to him. He's demonstrated how stupid he makes himself look with that series of macho photo;s he had taken. He's a power freak who will manipulate anything to retain it. Its not about Russians, its about him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2014 15:45:11 GMT
Well he's already crossed a line imo. The diplomacy appears not to be working, it's time to put a bit of real clout behind it imo. I wonder if those two US destroyers that were there for the Olympics are still there? It's a good start if they are. There's no chance, Bayern A few cancelled invites, a few meaningless sanctions ... for a few months, just to be polite. Billy Hague has just flown out, no doubt to say the whole world is right behind them, politically and morally, and strongly suggest the temporary Ukraine government hot foot it to Moscow and beg enter constructive talks with the Russians, as soon as possible. If someone sent me Hague to enter in dialogue with I'd definitely start a war with them!  I just think we need to stand up to Putin, we're letting him get away with too much. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:45:17 GMT
The trouble with Putin is that no fucker in Russia likes him. Maybe hes shit scared of the same thing that happened to his poodle happening to him. He's demonstrated how stupid he makes himself look with that series of macho photo;s he had taken. He's a power freak who will manipulate anything to retain it. Its not about Russians, its about him. Some people in Russia don't like him. The peasants like him. Heck, the peasants liked Stalin! But you're right, it is about him, to the extent he is trying to create a new, powerful Soviet "Bloc". What the Russian people want has never mattered, to anyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 15:56:26 GMT
To what end mate ? .......it would only escalate the situation to a point that no one wants it to get reach I doubt it Bish....they'd burst out laughing as we have no planes to put on an aircraft carrier I know that mate ......I think Bayern was advocating sending an American Aircraft Carrier ....that's never going to happen |
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I just think we need to stand up to Putin, we're letting him get away with too much. 
