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Post by Robo10 on Dec 5, 2013 11:18:17 GMT
According to SL&P and FB
They reckon he is at Clayton Woods today, Stoke trying to talk him into waiting for us, we can apparently re-apply for a permit 3 months after an unsuccessful one
Could be BS, but our dire need for any sort of up front magic means I am suckered in :-)
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Dec 5, 2013 11:20:50 GMT
It is possible for us to get the deal done and then loan him out isn't it? Surely that's the thing to do. Even if the second hearing is rejected (surely wouldn't be) then we still have player to sell who we got for free.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 5, 2013 11:31:49 GMT
It's not dangerous Dave from KA again is it?
Not bad news if true, it shows how keen they are. Which hopefully could play a part in his decision (it's always nice to be wanted) and that of the FA (they're here again? Fuck me, we'll give it 'em).
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 5, 2013 11:54:20 GMT
It is possible for us to get the deal done and then loan him out isn't it? Surely that's the thing to do. Even if the second hearing is rejected (surely wouldn't be) then we still have player to sell who we got for free. It's difficult when we don't actually know the reason for the rejected work permit. We're assuming it's lack of national caps but I don't know how many more of those he'll get in the next 3 months. If we do sign him and loan him out and a second appeal is rejected then who do we sell him to? No one in England. Maybe the club who have taken him on loan? Or we look at it long, long term, sign him up, loan him out and wait until after the world cup to apply again, assuming national caps was the sticking point but all that time on a weekly wage might not be in PC's or MH's budget/team plans.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 5, 2013 11:54:44 GMT
A loan to a European side whilst he qualifies seems a good idea , Austin made it over eventually and seems a decent player so worth it if he is good enough , also time in Europe would,help his game adjust from MLS
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Post by Robo10 on Dec 5, 2013 11:57:56 GMT
Loan him to Rangers or a Scottish Prem team - better prep for the Prem!
No point going to Spain and the slow leisurely pace out there - better in a more frantic league like ours.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 5, 2013 11:59:55 GMT
Loaning him to Rangers would be like sending him on loan to Nantwich Town with the level they're playing at.
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Post by werrington on Dec 5, 2013 12:01:37 GMT
Loan him to Rangers or a Scottish Prem team - better prep for the Prem! No point going to Spain and the slow leisurely pace out there - better in a more frantic league like ours. Rangers ? Scottish league 2 ......,he'd learn loads at that level but to save the travelling we could loan him to Stone Dominoes as it's a similar standard
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 5, 2013 12:07:30 GMT
Sentinel are running with it. Would we have to sign him in January and loan him out? You do wonder what we're hoping to say to any re-convened panel to get a different outcome in the short-term though. They would make themselves look stupid if they did a 180 on it with nothing substantive changing. And he's still possibly years from qualifying based on competitive caps. If we do rate him as highly as Hughes was intimating after the refusal, it may be worth us pushing the boat out, even if it were to take a number of years. Presumably the loan club would pay most of his wages?
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Dec 5, 2013 12:15:29 GMT
Sentinel are running with it. Would we have to sign him in January and loan him out? You do wonder what we're hoping to say to any re-convened panel to get a different outcome in the short-term though. They would make themselves look stupid if they did a 180 on it with nothing substantive changing. And he's still possibly years from qualifying based on competitive caps. If we do rate him as highly as Hughes was intimating after the refusal, it may be worth us pushing the boat out, even if it were to take a number of years. Presumably the loan club would pay most of his wages? I can't help feeling the response to this news is 'Whatever'. What is certain is that Agudelo will have no impact at all on our season which is what it's all about now.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 5, 2013 12:17:10 GMT
Sentinel are running with it. Would we have to sign him in January and loan him out? You do wonder what we're hoping to say to any re-convened panel to get a different outcome in the short-term though. They would make themselves look stupid if they did a 180 on it with nothing substantive changing. And he's still possibly years from qualifying based on competitive caps. If we do rate him as highly as Hughes was intimating after the refusal, it may be worth us pushing the boat out, even if it were to take a number of years. Presumably the loan club would pay most of his wages? You'd imagine that as well as us talking to Agudelo, Klinsmann would also be involved. If he were to be loaned out to a European Club for, say a year, in the knowledge that Kilnsmann would pick him for the majority of games during that year, then he might qualify under the rules at the end of the year. What exactly is the rule about percentage of games needed to qualify? Is it something like 75% of games over 1 year?
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 5, 2013 12:22:37 GMT
I wouldn't expect any turnaround though!I think it's 75% of competitive games in the 2 yrs preceding the appeal. And there's no sign of an imminent breakthrough into the national team picture. It'd be a major shock if he got anywhere near their World Cup squad for example, wouldn't it?
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Post by unknown182 on Dec 5, 2013 12:26:14 GMT
Valencia would suit him better in my opinion. It would be a massive ballache if we got turned down again at the second attempt.
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Post by mark71 on Dec 5, 2013 12:31:48 GMT
Am I missing something here, if he gets turned down for a work permit by one EU country (us) why would he be granted a work permit by another EU country?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 5, 2013 12:36:55 GMT
Am I missing something here, if he gets turned down for a work permit by one EU country (us) why would he be granted a work permit by another EU country? We have stricter rules than them. At a guess, we're the only EU country he'd flatly get refused for.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Dec 5, 2013 12:43:33 GMT
Am I missing something here, if he gets turned down for a work permit by one EU country (us) why would he be granted a work permit by another EU country? We have stricter rules than them. At a guess, we're the only EU country he'd flatly get refused for. Yeah he'd piss it in most other countries.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Dec 5, 2013 12:53:03 GMT
I wouldn't expect any turnaround though!I think it's 75% of competitive games in the 2 yrs preceding the appeal. And there's no sign of an imminent breakthrough into the national team picture. It'd be a major shock if he got anywhere near their World Cup squad for example, wouldn't it? The thing is FM the FA have set so many precedents with those that they have granted in recent years. The whole Willian thing is quite annoying because he doesn't meet the criteria either. Fair enough Willian is a better player with a bigger profile but still he's hardly figured for Chelsea and although he played for Brazil last month it was only a friendly. Still a loan move to the continent would help and you'd hope it would guarantee some playing time rather than sitting on our bench.
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Post by Olgrligm on Dec 5, 2013 12:53:28 GMT
Man Utd loan players to Belgium to get citizenship because work permits are easier to come by, if we're very keen then that must be an option?
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Post by nott1 on Dec 5, 2013 12:58:33 GMT
I think Rangers and Celtic are still in the UK and it's UK immigration who turned his application down not the FA!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 5, 2013 13:01:27 GMT
I think Rangers and Celtic are still in the UK and it's UK immigration who turned his application down not the FA! But it comes under the SFA. Our strict rules come from the FA, so it could be different and was in the past. But that's just me surmising, I have no idea what the permit rules are in Scotland. EDIT-Having a quick scan, it seems like they're now in line with us.
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Post by stokeramblers on Dec 5, 2013 13:01:59 GMT
I think Rangers and Celtic are still in the UK and it's UK immigration who turned his application down not the FA! It was an FA panel that recommended to the Home Office that our application be turned down. An SFA panel may be more lenient considering the dearth of talent up there..
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 5, 2013 13:02:17 GMT
I think Rangers and Celtic are still in the UK and it's UK immigration who turned his application down not the FA! It is the UK immigration rules which meant that he had to appeal. But it is the ENGLISH FA tribunal which heard the appeal. I assume if a Scottish Club made a new application for a permit, the appeal would be conducted by the Scottish FA - who can hardly be required to take into account Greg Dyke's statements on nurturing ENGLISH talent, can they?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 13:04:53 GMT
Man Utd loan players to Belgium to get citizenship because work permits are easier to come by, if we're very keen then that must be an option? don't think that's up to us though is it really? Agudelo would have to be happy with taking another nation's citizenship...given the fact that he's also played first team football for the US then basically he'd be resigning from international football as he can't play for the US if he's a national citizen of somewhere else and they can't play him because he's represented the US already...huge sacrifice to just play for stoke
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Post by bolly_premprem on Dec 5, 2013 13:05:28 GMT
Perhaps with the world cup coming up we have a chance. If Klinsman says "yes he will play in the world cup" that would surely qualify him for the required amount of national games
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Dec 5, 2013 13:06:37 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves here.
If one of the top four had wanted this kid, they'd have got the work permit.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 5, 2013 13:07:10 GMT
I wouldn't expect any turnaround though!I think it's 75% of competitive games in the 2 yrs preceding the appeal. And there's no sign of an imminent breakthrough into the national team picture. It'd be a major shock if he got anywhere near their World Cup squad for example, wouldn't it? I thought he was one of their stars? Even Brek is in the squad isn't he?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 5, 2013 13:10:10 GMT
Man Utd loan players to Belgium to get citizenship because work permits are easier to come by, if we're very keen then that must be an option? don't think that's up to us though is it really? Agudelo would have to be happy with taking another nation's citizenship...given the fact that he's also played first team football for the US then basically he'd be resigning from international football as he can't play for the US if he's a national citizen of somewhere else and they can't play him because he's represented the US already...huge sacrifice to just play for stoke (Again) I have no idea but haven't too many international players done that for it to be a worry of losing the chance to play for Your country? Or is it a Yank specific problem? And if so, why can't he be a dual citizen? It seems a bit like bollocks to me (as a rule not what You're saying ).
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Post by rawli on Dec 5, 2013 13:11:19 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves here. If one of the top four had wanted this kid, they'd have got the work permit. So you're saying it's not a level playing field and the FA are in the pockets of the big clubs? What a terrible thing to think.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 5, 2013 13:11:39 GMT
Man Utd loan players to Belgium to get citizenship because work permits are easier to come by, if we're very keen then that must be an option? don't think that's up to us though is it really? Agudelo would have to be happy with taking another nation's citizenship...given the fact that he's also played first team football for the US then basically he'd be resigning from international football as he can't play for the US if he's a national citizen of somewhere else and they can't play him because he's represented the US already...huge sacrifice to just play for stoke I think you are wrong there. Providing any new nationality was taken on a dual nationality basis, then I don't see that he is precluded from continuing to play for the US. Dual nationality isn't that uncommon amongst players and, of course, there are many players whose passports are of one country and who represent another country even though they don't have parents or grandparents from that country. Our own Marc Wilson is British (N Irish) born of British parents but he plays for the Republic.
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Post by Olgrligm on Dec 5, 2013 13:13:25 GMT
Man Utd loan players to Belgium to get citizenship because work permits are easier to come by, if we're very keen then that must be an option? don't think that's up to us though is it really? Agudelo would have to be happy with taking another nation's citizenship...given the fact that he's also played first team football for the US then basically he'd be resigning from international football as he can't play for the US if he's a national citizen of somewhere else and they can't play him because he's represented the US already...huge sacrifice to just play for stoke He could have dual citizenship, couldn't he? That wouldn't impede his ability to play for the USA at all. I know there are examples of them having done it in the past with other players - Dong Fangzhuo is one of them and I know there are a few others. Although yes, obviously he'd have to be on board with having a few years somewhere in Europe and we'd have to find somebody to take him on.
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