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Post by GeneralFaye on Mar 22, 2019 15:31:43 GMT
And despite all the shouting and screaming and banging of doors and general mayhem when they found Madeleine 'had gone'...which continued for hours..the twins NEVER woke up. That suggests they were sedated. Kate is a trained anaethnitist. Doctors have access to 'controlled' drugs. And the photo of Madeleine which both parents claim was the last ever taken of her on the 3/5/2007..the day she was 'abducted'...shows bright sunlight and blue skies. In Prai da Luiz on 3/5/2007 every weather report shows low lying cloud throughout the day. And this Netfix series is a crock of absolute shit...Not only does it tell us nothing knew it features false leads and obfuscation. Tripe. So they drugged and killed Maddie one night, and then drugged the twins the following night regardless? Nah. Exactly, it doesn't make sense but unfortunately none of it does either way you look at it.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 22, 2019 16:02:59 GMT
I didn't think they did it before I watched the Netflix series. Now I'm sure they didn't do it. The bile on this thread is vile. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Hi Gerry
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Post by salopstick on Mar 22, 2019 17:07:30 GMT
I didn't think they did it before I watched the Netflix series. Now I'm sure they didn't do it. The bile on this thread is vile. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The McCanns are cunts. They left their toddler and twin babies in an apartment on their own, night after night to go on the piss. It’s not ok that they allegedly checked on them every 30 minutes. Sit round any pool bar at night on holiday and you will see kids running about, playing or sleeping in pushchairs. You will also see parents go back to their apartments early because they have children. It’s called neglect Bile? Yes they are
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 22, 2019 17:20:01 GMT
I didn't think they did it before I watched the Netflix series. Now I'm sure they didn't do it. The bile on this thread is vile. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The McCanns are cunts. They left their toddler and twin babies in an apartment on their own, night after night to go on the piss. It’s not ok that they allegedly checked on them every 30 minutes. Sit round any pool bar at night on holiday and you will see kids running about, playing or sleeping in pushchairs. You will also see parents go back to their apartments early because they have children. It’s called neglect Bile? Yes they are That bit in the Netflix series where some prowlers were allegedly on the loose, and someone said "if only they had told us"! Ok, put a warning out, but that doesn't excuse leaving kids at home, in a ground floor apartment that you can't see, does it? They could have used the baby sitting service that was available. It's unforgivable.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Mar 22, 2019 17:49:06 GMT
Does neglect = murder?...
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 22, 2019 17:55:07 GMT
Does neglect = murder?... No. I don't think anything can be ruled out; accident, abduction or murder.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 22, 2019 18:18:03 GMT
Does neglect = murder?... No it doesn’t But what’s a bit of child neglect between doctors
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Post by Absolution on Mar 22, 2019 19:17:16 GMT
Does neglect = murder?... No. I don't think anything can be ruled out; accident, abduction or murder. Thought I'd wandered onto the Brexit thread for a moment there.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 23, 2019 22:23:42 GMT
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Post by kelw on Mar 24, 2019 12:20:22 GMT
Another thing got me. If this bloke doing the checking on their kids noticed a window was open and heard a noise in the room, why didn't he go into the room to see and close the window? I also don't buy this "we checked on them every twenty minutes" business. When the drink is flowing? And what state would the people checking be in if they did? It's neglect at the very least, and would have been if it was Sharon and Steve from a council estate. Gerry was gone for 45 minutes for one alleged check which wasn't mentioned-he claimed was watching football and was side tracked. Was basically McCann propaganda as per the tabloids. As for the fellow calling us bile-I think setting up a fund as a PLC and calling it a charity on line is bile and actually illegal as well as leaving kids alone in a foreign country, spending donated money on personal expenses and tens of thousands on high powered lawyers like Carter Ruck to silence those who don't believe their unfounded story rather than spend it on finding a girl which the donations were for. They have banned books by the likes of Pat Brown who is an expert in this field as she doesn't believe their guff, let's not forget they admitted lying to the police but easily done I guess. Madeleine has never been their number one priority. Sickened me on the documentary, the Portuguese people saw through them so their highly paid spin doctors have them attend church in Portugal for all to see looking forlorn and sad. When there is a slight piece of evidence after 10 years of an abduction rather than a made up story of an open window then come back and justify the bile comment. Until then it's still a story they have told us with no concrete backing at all
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Post by happychappy on Mar 24, 2019 13:24:01 GMT
If anyone seriously thinks that them pair havent got anything do with it are deluded. There's far to many questions over there heads than there are answers.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 26, 2019 16:18:21 GMT
The photograph of Madeleine said by parents to be the last one ever taken on the 3/5/2007..shows her sitting around the swimming pool in bright sunlight. On 3/5/2007 in that resort all weather reports show a cloudy day. That suggests she didn't go missing that day & the McCanns lied about it. Why? Most independent observers believe that the McCanns sedated their children when they went out drinking..sometimes until the early hours of the morning. They were doctors so would access & knowledge of prescribed sedatives. Madeleine awoke while they were out..climbed on the sofa next to the windows..in a semi sedated state..tried to open the curtains..and fell off..straight onto the floor..onto her head...and she had a brain haemorrhage and died. (The spot where the sniffer dogs found cadaver & blood scent.) Parents came in early hours..pissed..went straight to bed. Kate McCann didn't discover Madeleine until she got up..became hysterical when she found the body..now leaking cadaverine and other bodily fluids. Picked up Madeleine and hugged her..got cadaverine on her clothes..hugged cuddle cat..transferring cadaverine onto that..picked up Sean and hugged him..getting cadaverine on his red T shirt. Thats why she washed cuddle cat & Seans T shirt. Gerry put Madeleines body in his big blue tennis bag (never been found) and they forensically cleaned the apartment. They then sat down and hatched the 'abduction' plan..which happened either the next day or day later. Madeleine did not go missing on the 3/5/2007. That removes Robert Murats alibi..(which is important) What happened to Gerrys tennis bag? Why was blood and cadaverine and Madeleines DNA group found in a car the McCanns had hired 10 days AFTER she went missing? So many questions unanwsered and as you say Salop...WHY? Compelling, very compelling. Just on the topic of DNA (I work with it) and the presence of Madeline's DNA group it's absolutely no surprise 50-80% matches can occur because everyone in that hire car shares DNA. Some genes will be more differentiated than others, depending on which alleles (basically, Gerry's version of a gene or Kate's version of a gene passed down) Madeline expressed. The DNA in the car these days could probably be better sequenced and analysed but back 12 years ago I'm not really surprised it came out as a relatively inconclusive jumble of McCann DNA. Especially when it was found at such a low yield, and the lower yield you have the less accurate your DNA replication and the more likely the case of artefact entering the sample. A method of amplifying DNA in investigations such as this is the Polymerase Chain Reaction, which effectively takes a piece of template DNA, separates it into two strands then replicates the original strand to an exponential level. If the sample was contaminated to begin with, when amplified this mistake is compounded as many times as replication occurs, making identification very difficult. DNA is all too often used as a smoking gun in Police Procedural dramas, in reality the ubiquitous nature of DNA means utmost interpretation must be used when collating it as evidence. Even a match as high as 80% isn't enough to differentiate between two family members, never mind anyone else who may have been at the scene/car. Though I concur, this doesn't explain the cadaverine nor the blood detected by the dogs. I've been listening to series of podcasts made by an Australian investigative journo called Mark Saunokonoko. Podcast 5 tackles the subject of DNA and the level of analysis available to the FSS in 2007. Dr Mark Perlin suggests that if the DNA data could be provided to him, and analysed using TrueAllele software, he could now using these advanced algorithms fully analyse the DNA samples. And would even do it for free. I'd appreciate your view on this podcast omny.fm/shows/maddie/the-dna (at idiots level!) 5 of the 9 podcasts (each about 40 mins long) have now been published omny.fm/shows/maddie Much of the material has been covered before but useful if you want a potted guide.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Mar 27, 2019 14:23:22 GMT
Certainly a good overview, and very well explained using the microscope analogy. Dr Lowe didn't rule out the presence of Madeline's DNA in the sample it's just that he couldn't definitively state one way or the other. Which is the crucial point when we're considering how this is viewed in a legal context. The point about Human Bias may be considered a bit mis-leading as the results that come out can be interpreted in many different ways, but the way it's phrased in the podcast (probably for the drama) implies that maybe someone at the FSS may have covered up the results. In reality, it would have been a bias in the sense of "I can't make a decision based on this" which is born out by Dr Lowe's report.
Stratification of DNA samples is a very complex and lengthy procedure. Additionally it's something way beyond the capabilities of the technology available in 2007. It's important to state that in the last 12 years DNA technology has had a "great leap forward", due to the increases in computing power and more sophisticated software, in 2007 DNA technology hadn't changed too much since the 80s and the development of PCR under Kary Mullis (a very peculiar fellow). As for the refusal to release the data, there's myriad reasons for and against, but until they give an actual reason its pure speculation as to why they won't release it.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 27, 2019 16:17:28 GMT
Certainly a good overview, and very well explained using the microscope analogy. Dr Lowe didn't rule out the presence of Madeline's DNA in the sample it's just that he couldn't definitively state one way or the other. Which is the crucial point when we're considering how this is viewed in a legal context. The point about Human Bias may be considered a bit mis-leading as the results that come out can be interpreted in many different ways, but the way it's phrased in the podcast (probably for the drama) implies that maybe someone at the FSS may have covered up the results. In reality, it would have been a bias in the sense of "I can't make a decision based on this" which is born out by Dr Lowe's report. Stratification of DNA samples is a very complex and lengthy procedure. Additionally it's something way beyond the capabilities of the technology available in 2007. It's important to state that in the last 12 years DNA technology has had a "great leap forward", due to the increases in computing power and more sophisticated software, in 2007 DNA technology hadn't changed too much since the 80s and the development of PCR under Kary Mullis (a very peculiar fellow). As for the refusal to release the data, there's myriad reasons for and against, but until they give an actual reason its pure speculation as to why they won't release it. Thanks. Unless the data is made available then all other questions about what can be achieved now, as opposed to 2007, are redundant. To the layman (me) if Operation Grange/PJ believed there was merit in using Dr Mark Perlin's methodology to advance the understanding of the DNA analysis to today's level, then surely they could force the release of the data for such a review? However, if the data is genuinely lost rather than withheld, then as I recall, the original DNA samples were destroyed by the FSS in alignment with official policy for perishable samples. Therefore if no samples remain no new analysis can be undertaken from the base material. Time will tell.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Mar 31, 2019 12:31:36 GMT
Looks like the money has run out according to today's report.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 2, 2019 9:03:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 1:22:53 GMT
What absolutely breaks my heart is whilst all of this debating goes on about who did what to who (or is it whome) - Maddie has gone.
In that last post from Clayton Wood we see that beautiful little girl. She is either dead , or someone took her. Either way a tragedy.
If I were to be one of her parents, or grand parents, I would never give up.
If someone took my grand daughter - watch out - I will never give up.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 7, 2019 8:19:32 GMT
Forensic Science Service Expands License for Cybergenetics Automated DNA Data Review Technology 21-Jul-2004 Cybergenetics, Corp. today announced that the Forensic Science Service (FSS), an executive agency of the British Home Office, expanded its license for Cybergenetics TrueAllele® technology to crime scene evidence. Three years ago, the FSS became the first group to validate and operate the TrueAllele software for automated forensic DNA data review. .... "It is natural that the FSS, the long-time world leader in DNA forensics, is the first to apply our TrueAllele forensics technology to crime scene evidence," said Dr. Mark Perlin, chief executive officer of Cybergenetics. "The intelligent computerized TrueAllele system greatly reduces the time, cost, error and tedium of manually reviewing forensic data. We expect the FSS to realize further efficiency gains in applying TrueAllele interpretation to DNA evidence."
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Post by salopstick on Apr 7, 2019 9:20:27 GMT
Forensic Science Service Expands License for Cybergenetics Automated DNA Data Review Technology 21-Jul-2004 Cybergenetics, Corp. today announced that the Forensic Science Service (FSS), an executive agency of the British Home Office, expanded its license for Cybergenetics TrueAllele® technology to crime scene evidence. Three years ago, the FSS became the first group to validate and operate the TrueAllele software for automated forensic DNA data review. .... "It is natural that the FSS, the long-time world leader in DNA forensics, is the first to apply our TrueAllele forensics technology to crime scene evidence," said Dr. Mark Perlin, chief executive officer of Cybergenetics. "The intelligent computerized TrueAllele system greatly reduces the time, cost, error and tedium of manually reviewing forensic data. We expect the FSS to realize further efficiency gains in applying TrueAllele interpretation to DNA evidence."
What’s the betting that any DNA found in the various reported places is either lost, missing or damaged beyond repair to allow any new advances in DNA technology to look at it. On the face of it in most murders / suspicious deaths you don’t hsve to look far from home for the culprit(s) There are a lot of theories that in the face of it seem very plausible. Without the evidence they remain theories regardless of suspicion. After 12 or so years the cover up seems lock tight. Until Op Grange actually turn a screw on the whole group they are in the clear. I think when you look at the characters involved to the top it’s s whole can of worms that doesn’t seem to get opened
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 9:25:39 GMT
I didn't think they did it before I watched the Netflix series. Now I'm sure they didn't do it. The bile on this thread is vile. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The McCanns are cunts. They left their toddler and twin babies in an apartment on their own, night after night to go on the piss. It’s not ok that they allegedly checked on them every 30 minutes. Sit round any pool bar at night on holiday and you will see kids running about, playing or sleeping in pushchairs. You will also see parents go back to their apartments early because they have children. It’s called neglect Bile? Yes they are or got their mates to check on them...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 9:26:45 GMT
2 words:
Cadaver dogs
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Post by franklin66 on Apr 7, 2019 9:45:47 GMT
Does neglect = murder?... Could be manslaughter though.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 7, 2019 10:21:23 GMT
Forensic Science Service Expands License for Cybergenetics Automated DNA Data Review Technology 21-Jul-2004 Cybergenetics, Corp. today announced that the Forensic Science Service (FSS), an executive agency of the British Home Office, expanded its license for Cybergenetics TrueAllele® technology to crime scene evidence. Three years ago, the FSS became the first group to validate and operate the TrueAllele software for automated forensic DNA data review. .... "It is natural that the FSS, the long-time world leader in DNA forensics, is the first to apply our TrueAllele forensics technology to crime scene evidence," said Dr. Mark Perlin, chief executive officer of Cybergenetics. "The intelligent computerized TrueAllele system greatly reduces the time, cost, error and tedium of manually reviewing forensic data. We expect the FSS to realize further efficiency gains in applying TrueAllele interpretation to DNA evidence."
What’s the betting that any DNA found in the various reported places is either lost, missing or damaged beyond repair to allow any new advances in DNA technology to look at it. On the face of it in most murders / suspicious deaths you don’t hsve to look far from home for the culprit(s) There are a lot of theories that in the face of it seem very plausible. Without the evidence they remain theories regardless of suspicion. After 12 or so years the cover up seems lock tight. Until Op Grange actually turn a screw on the whole group they are in the clear. I think when you look at the characters involved to the top it’s s whole can of worms that doesn’t seem to get opened The thing I don't understand is, according to Cybergenics the FSS have been using TrueAllele since 2004, 3 years before the McCann case. But now Dr. Mark Perlin is offering the use of the technology for free to crack the case. Did the FSS use the TrueAllele system in 2007 or not? Or has the technology improved over 2007 levels to be more reliable than it was then? Dr. Mark Perlin must have known the FSS had his system in 2007 so why is he offering a free review now. I don't get it.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 7, 2019 10:59:01 GMT
What’s the betting that any DNA found in the various reported places is either lost, missing or damaged beyond repair to allow any new advances in DNA technology to look at it. On the face of it in most murders / suspicious deaths you don’t hsve to look far from home for the culprit(s) There are a lot of theories that in the face of it seem very plausible. Without the evidence they remain theories regardless of suspicion. After 12 or so years the cover up seems lock tight. Until Op Grange actually turn a screw on the whole group they are in the clear. I think when you look at the characters involved to the top it’s s whole can of worms that doesn’t seem to get opened The thing I don't understand is, according to Cybergenics the FSS have been using TrueAllele since 2004, 3 years before the McCann case. But now Dr. Mark Perlin is offering the use of the technology for free to crack the case. Did the FSS use the TrueAllele system in 2007 or not? Or has the technology improved over 2007 levels to be more reliable than it was then? Dr. Mark Perlin must have known the FSS had his system in 2007 so why is he offering a free review now. I don't get it. From reading that article, it seems the software does your standard genetic work, like those that would have been done in 2007, as an individual package and since that point, they have included the ability to pick out individual bits of DNA from a mixed sample. The article explicity states, “routine”, stratifying samples in 2007 was certainly not routine, it was pretty much impossible as Perlin states in that podcast. Sort of like an upgrade from Windows 98 to Windows 10. There’s nothing in the article regarding separating mixed samples like those from the car, it just saves the FSS from having to individually calculate what each individual test is telling them. If you like, this was True Allelle 1.0.
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Post by salopstick on Apr 7, 2019 12:59:32 GMT
A little lad died after falling out of his dads Land Rover www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/three-year-old-boy-crushed-16083511.ampA terrible accident. The father may have some blame and it may have been avoided. Either way the father has to live with this for ever. Now if theories are to be believed Maddie may have died in an accident, again it could have been avoided, the parents may carry some blame but they have to live with that. What the McCanns have done is purported a fraud of an abduction and kept this lie going in the media with smoke and mirrors and libel law suits etc. That is what grates most people
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Post by felonious on Apr 22, 2019 18:13:55 GMT
I didn't think they did it before I watched the Netflix series. Now I'm sure they didn't do it. The bile on this thread is vile. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The McCanns are cunts. They left their toddler and twin babies in an apartment on their own, night after night to go on the piss. It’s not ok that they allegedly checked on them every 30 minutes. Sit round any pool bar at night on holiday and you will see kids running about, playing or sleeping in pushchairs. You will also see parents go back to their apartments early because they have children. It’s called neglect Bile? Yes they are One of my mates has fucked off with his missus abroad and left the kids with grandparents. His lad couldn't even get to the game today, selfish bastard.
I reckon that's neglect
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Post by lordb on Apr 22, 2019 18:44:44 GMT
A little lad died after falling out of his dads Land Rover www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/three-year-old-boy-crushed-16083511.ampA terrible accident. The father may have some blame and it may have been avoided. Either way the father has to live with this for ever. Now if theories are to be believed Maddie may have died in an accident, again it could have been avoided, the parents may carry some blame but they have to live with that. What the McCanns have done is purported a fraud of an abduction and kept this lie going in the media with smoke and mirrors and libel law suits etc. That is what grates most people Only if you believe that's what has happened. Personally I believe she was abducted. No idea what 'most people' believe.
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Post by salopstick on Apr 22, 2019 18:56:01 GMT
The McCanns are cunts. They left their toddler and twin babies in an apartment on their own, night after night to go on the piss. It’s not ok that they allegedly checked on them every 30 minutes. Sit round any pool bar at night on holiday and you will see kids running about, playing or sleeping in pushchairs. You will also see parents go back to their apartments early because they have children. It’s called neglect Bile? Yes they are One of my mates has fucked off with his missus abroad and left the kids with grandparents. His lad couldn't even get to the game today, selfish bastard.
I reckon that's neglect
I think the lad is lucky to not go to the game
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Post by salopstick on Apr 22, 2019 18:56:42 GMT
A little lad died after falling out of his dads Land Rover www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/three-year-old-boy-crushed-16083511.ampA terrible accident. The father may have some blame and it may have been avoided. Either way the father has to live with this for ever. Now if theories are to be believed Maddie may have died in an accident, again it could have been avoided, the parents may carry some blame but they have to live with that. What the McCanns have done is purported a fraud of an abduction and kept this lie going in the media with smoke and mirrors and libel law suits etc. That is what grates most people Only if you believe that's what has happened. Personally I believe she was abducted. No idea what 'most people' believe. Just out of interest what makes you believe the abduction theory
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Post by felonious on Apr 22, 2019 19:01:16 GMT
One of my mates has fucked off with his missus abroad and left the kids with grandparents. His lad couldn't even get to the game today, selfish bastard.
I reckon that's neglect
I think the lad is lucky to not go to the game Were you there? Best atmosphere all season in the second half and a stunning Edwards goal that lifted the roof off. Anyone there today will treasure that goal.
Proper team effort, everyone left with a smile on their faces. Shame that lad had to miss it, he's a proper supporter.
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