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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 10, 2013 17:07:01 GMT
TacticsThis is the easy one. It's 4-3-3, which becomes 4-5-1 when the opposition have the ball. The 3 in the middle are compact and all have license to go forwards, the wider two players in the three are playing slightly behind the main forward and very centrally (think level with the two sides of the centre-circle) and the genuine width is coming from the full-backs, who push right up the pitch as soon as we have the ball. There's much more emphasis on possession, but there's little indication on just how heavy that emphasis will be at this stage. I'm hoping that a lot of the overplaying and messing about at the back that we've done is just some pre-season messing about and that we have a little more drive and directness about us when it comes to the competitive matches, else we'll be in trouble. The wide men are interesting because they're not out and out wingers. I can't really see how Pennant will feature, but I can see Walters getting a lot of games there for all manner of reasons. If Jerome were a bit more intelligent he might make a reasonable fist of it. Etherington might actually be a decent option, but I really think we need another man in there, someone with a bit of pace and creativity. As for the forward playing in the middle, we seem better with a target man there than a Jerome type. We've left a lot to be desired on the ball so far, with little creativity and a lot of overplaying, but we're improving without the ball. We were a little ropey at first in America but today we were very good at limiting the amount of time the opposition saw on the ball, getting it off them as soon as they tried to play out and settling straight back down. That's very promising. Our biggest weakness is what happens when our two centre-backs get the ball. We've no way of making the transition from this position to attack at the minute, without going long. Once we've got it in the opposition half then we're ok, but we currently don't have a clue with the ball on the edge of our own box. The DefenceFortunately, it seems that Mark Hughes is very sensible and isn't going to mess about with our two at the back. Huth and Shawcross have started every game and hopefully that's going to be the way that things stay for years to come. Nothing to see here, no worries. Things are a little different at full-back. Pieters hasn't particularly stood out so far but he's been perfectly adequate. Muniesa looks to have been brought in primarily as a left back (note that today, Hughes preferred to put Shotton at centre-half) and he's been reasonably impressive in the glimpses that we've seen of him. I presume that Pieters will start at Liverpool and we'll be able to judge what sort of player we've got in a couple of months. I'm massively alarmed by what's going on at right-back. Cameron has started nearly every game there and, to be very blunt, he's absolutely shocking. His distribution is appalling, his positioning is appalling, his defending is appalling and the only really redeeming feature he has is that he gets down the line a little bit more than any of the alternatives. For me, however, he's firmly behind Shotton, Wilkinson and Wilson in the pecking order. There will be serious alarm bells ringing if he's Hughes' first choice right back this year. The MidfieldWith the amount of minutes he's spent on the pitch, you could be forgiven for thinking that there was life in Wilson Palacios yet. However, he's just the same as he was last year and the year before that. He played a lot of minutes in last year's pre-season but was still incredibly unfit at the end of it and never featured. He's played a lot of minutes in this pre-season and yet today, he was absolutely no different. He had a good 20 minutes and then looked absolutely exhausted and was somewhere between anonymous and poor. Get shot of him as soon as possible and if Hull are offering more than a few million then bite their hand off. Charlie Adam, meanwhile, is a completely different story. Despite him having not seen much action prior to today, we've looked much better with him in the middle alongside two others. I'd be very happy to see him start the season alongside the perfectly adequate Whelan and the ever excellent (but still sulky) N'Zonzi. Wilson looks to have talked his way out of the side by declaring himself a midfielder, because he just isn't getting any time on the pitch there and he hasn't been considered at full-back. The ForwardsRight now it looks to be either Jones or Crouch playing as the team's striker, with no clear indication of which will be the first choice. I thought Crouch was alright today and with two pacey players flanking him then he may be a little more useful this year. It's all about the players around him, really. It looks like Walters will be starting out in one of the inside forward positions, so it's just about working out who can play on the other side. Etherington is one option, but I think there are too many concerns about his fitness and effectiveness these days to be relying on him as a starter. Absolutely anything could happen with Shea, but you do wonder if he's done his chances a lot of harm by getting called up to play in the Mickey Mouse Cup. Pennant, as an out and out winger, doesn't really seem suited to the job and Kightly just isn't good enough. We need a player here. I wonder if this new American or Diouf are being earmarked to play in this role? Bearing all of that in mind, my team for Liverpool would be: Begovic
Shotton Shawcross Huth Pieters
Whelan Adam N'Zonzi
Walters Crouch Etherington There are still holes in that side, but I think that's probably the pick of everything we've seen so far. We still need investment, we definitely need a forward or two and we could probably do with another midfielder. There are a lot of worries and a lot of things to be positive about right now.
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Post by Wizbit on Aug 10, 2013 17:16:40 GMT
Fair assessment I think, The glaring deficiencies are pace and goals in the final third everything else is fairly solid
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:24:59 GMT
I think Hughes played what he thinks his 1st team is in the first half today. I would love us to find replacements for Walters and Etherington (still can't beat a man and he knows it) that will improve the team.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 10, 2013 17:26:17 GMT
Simple, the previous manager has left a squad of footballers who are going to need serious coaching in order for them to start creating chances and play anything like the attacking football promised by the new regime. Mark Hughes needs backing by Coates NOW.
The previous manager has spunked £100million on hoofers. Fact.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 10, 2013 17:29:45 GMT
The only change from last season is Pieters! Not exactly a move to a higher level never mind a revolution!I fear the pessimists will be proven right?! It appears from MD's analysis that we're playing like Man City but without the pace of their full-backs, the power, skill and creativity of their midfield and no point comparing our attacks?! We're planning to play like 21st century Man City with a team Pulis designed for the nineteenth century.
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Post by stokeyouth on Aug 10, 2013 17:31:21 GMT
Agree on most things but a few points
- Diouf is a striker, wont be marked down as inside forward role, that will be Agudelo. - I think Shea would have probably started the season as our main LW. For the USMNT he gained match fitness and got goals, then in the 25mins in the Philly game he scored after getting in good position and drove the team forward for Kightly's goal. - I'd like to see more of Kightly in this role, I think he'd thrive. I'd prefer a Hoilett/Sinclair but for now, and with Shea I'd like to see Kites here. In America he got 1 assist and 1 veryy good goal in 1 game,he's a lot more direct than our other wingers too
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:32:04 GMT
I'd agree with the majority of that. I disagree about Palacios looking bolloxed though,he had a mixed bag of a game I thought. He played some great balls at times but also gave it away quite cheaply at times too,I don't think he looked unfit at all though. First time I've really seen Pieters and I was totally underwhelmed with him as an attacking threat but need to see him tested fully defensively before he can be judged properly. like you say Cameron is a liability at right back and needs replacing. One thing that was definitely highlighted today was our lack of a cutting edge,we are absolutely desperate for a striker with some pace,something we all probably knew before today but with this more patient build up play that we are obviously adopting we need someone who can work off the shoulder of the oppositions back line. I was quite pleased with what I saw first half,with what will probably something like our starting line up next weekend,I thought we knocked it about well and actually carved open a few good chances, two of those should have definitely been scored. It was also good to see our centre halves wanting the ball and dropping short for it off the keeper and looking pretty comfortable on the ball,Shawcross especially. All in all some good signs and things to be positive about,it's going to take time and we are still in need for some fresh blood in certain areas of the pitch. I think once Hughes has added a couple of more players to our squad we will be ok.
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Post by slozenger on Aug 10, 2013 17:33:16 GMT
The USMNT? Hot Dog!
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Post by lordb on Aug 10, 2013 17:34:54 GMT
We have learnt that Shea is injured.
everything else is of minor importance.
real stuff starts now.
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Post by stockportstokie on Aug 10, 2013 17:35:40 GMT
Was Palacios really that bad
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Post by shiftyfifty on Aug 10, 2013 17:38:46 GMT
Was Palacios really that bad He was worse.
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Post by cpfwizard on Aug 10, 2013 17:42:22 GMT
I think without any new additions before Liverpool, today's starting line up would be my preference. GK and the two CB's instantly pick themselves (although I would hope that Butland would put pressure on Begovic sooner rather than later). Pieters for me looked pretty comfortable and Muniesa a very good deputy for him. I would preference either Cameron or Wilson at RB over Shotton or Wilkinson myself given the emphasis on passing as i'm scared shitless every time shotton or wilkinson are on the ball. The midfield 'triangle' of Nzonzi, Palacios and Adam for me looked very good (although i admit later in the game Palacios became more prone to errors) but i'd still prefer him to Whelan. It is the attacking 3 that still offer us a problem - possession was 100% better but we lacked any cutting edge. On the right from Walters, Pennant and Kightly at this moment in time i'd favour Walters - at least he puts in a shift, Pennant was poor today for me, he didn't beat his man or deliver a good cross and was knocked over too easily and Kightly is just not good enough. On the left from Etherington and Shea we have a huge problem with injury concerns and fitness/form concerns. The central striker from Crouch, Jones and Jerome - I've seen nothing at all from today or the USA games that Jerome can play in this system and I still think that Crouch offers more than Jones.
It is clear that we are playing better football but lack pace and finishing ability within the front 3 and if we are to avoid being dragged into any trouble these 3 positions need sorting quickly. Diouf, Sinclair and A.N. Other needed asap plus some back up, because i thought as we made substitutions today the 2nd half team looked well off the mark with the passing style.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:44:31 GMT
For me the whole pre season has been about getting players on the ball, getting them used to playing pass and move and bringing the sharpness back. I would be amazed if we went into the season playing the same amount of tippy tappy stuff. Hughes has never done that so i expect it to be direct at times too but with more purpose.
433 seems to be the formation but the worry for me and it's been glaringly obvious is that we lack pace throughout the whole side. Any counter becomes non existent with Crouch up front and Jerome can't control for toffee.
Pieters hasn't impressed me, his touch has been poor along with his crossing, not seen enough defensively.
I think we need at least a couple of attacking players in before the weekend and both need a bit of skill and pace.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:45:08 GMT
Was Palacios really that bad He was worse. Clueless post.
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Post by shiftyfifty on Aug 10, 2013 17:47:45 GMT
Could say the same about yours. As a point of interest, remind me what he contributed to the game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:50:04 GMT
Could say the same about yours. As a point of interest, remind me what he contributed to the game. To be fair Stokeys post was a lot closer to the truth than yours
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Post by shiftyfifty on Aug 10, 2013 17:52:15 GMT
Could say the same about yours. As a point of interest, remind me what he contributed to the game. To be fair Stokeys post was a lot closer to the truth than yours Stick your winky smiley thing up your arse, you're both f**king clueless. If you think being immobile and taking all day to distribute a ball is good football you're both bigger jokes than I thought.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:54:30 GMT
To be fair Stokeys post was a lot closer to the truth than yours Stick your winky smiley thing up your arse, you're both f**king clueless. If you think being immobile and taking all day to distribute a ball is good football you're both bigger jokes than I thought. If your read my post earlier on on the thread you will see my opinion on Palacios today. My comment was that Stokeys post was a lot closer to the truth than your own bullshit comment that Palacios was worse than shit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 17:56:35 GMT
Mark Hughes likes to wear the club shop.
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Post by shiftyfifty on Aug 10, 2013 17:56:54 GMT
I read your bullshit post, that was why I originally thought you were a clown.
I'm still waiting for the reminder.
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Post by Han Solo on Aug 10, 2013 17:59:02 GMT
I think Adams in a 3 is a must the question is who plays alongside NZonzi. Id still go with Palacios unless we get better. There's just more to his game to Whelans.
Back 5 looks solid.
Without doubt we need to address our front 3. Diouf is a neccesity as is Hoillett. She hopefully will come straight in and we'd be left with ....Hoillett..........Diouf..........Shea..... Which has a lot more potential than what we had today. If we can't get in Diouff then we need to do all we can to get in Deeney. I think he'd really suit our style.
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Post by onemanbang on Aug 10, 2013 18:00:21 GMT
My honest assessment is that we have neither gone forward or backward...........we've just gone sideways.
Ok we pass the ball around now and instead of the pointless 30 yard down the line balls from the defence we now have nice little triangles between Huth, Shawcross and Bego, But we're still toothless and I still believe its not the forwards fault.
We get the ball 2/3 of the way up the pitch and then we go back and this carries on happening until we lose the ball.
Positives are that we now have a bit of balance with a left footed left back in the team but theres much work to be done.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 18:03:50 GMT
I read your bullshit post, that was why I originally thought you were a clown. I'm still waiting for the reminder. In all fairness you didn't ask me for the reminder. Seeing as though you ask ill repeat myself again.... I thought it was a mixed bag from Palacios,I thought at times he kept the ball moving well as the deepest sitting midfielder,kept it simple and used the ball well. He also had the tendency to give the ball away cheaply at times as well,but never hid and kept plugging away to keep the ball ticking over. Whilst not exactly setting the world alight I thought he was fairly steady but will need to cut out the sloppy passing if he is to get a run in the starting line up. In my opinion your comment of worse than shit is wide of the mark.
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Aug 10, 2013 18:05:52 GMT
So after today then is their a definite affirmed list of players who have to go?
Crouch? Palacios?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 18:07:33 GMT
So after today then is their a definite affirmed list of players who have to go? Crouch? Palacios? Yeah because out of all the deadwood in our squad,these have got to be the first two we think of moving on.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Aug 10, 2013 18:08:19 GMT
That some people on here are miserable bastards no matter who the manager is.
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Aug 10, 2013 18:10:08 GMT
So after today then is their a definite affirmed list of players who have to go? Crouch? Palacios? Yeah because out of all the deadwood in our squad,these have got to be the first two we think of moving on. Oh dear...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 18:14:43 GMT
... that moaners will be moaners whatever
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Post by Birchesheadpotter on Aug 10, 2013 18:22:11 GMT
So after today then is their a definite affirmed list of players who have to go? Crouch? Palacios? Yeah because out of all the deadwood in our squad,these have got to be the first two we think of moving on. If you're going to be a smarmy little shit for the entirety of this thead, I might aswell humour you with a 'yes, they probably are', and see where it leads.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 18:26:36 GMT
Yeah because out of all the deadwood in our squad,these have got to be the first two we think of moving on. If you're going to be a smarmy little shit for the entirety of this thead, I might aswell humour you with a 'yes, they probably are', and see where it leads. Hilarious stuff. Another one who believes we have a better option up front at the moment than Peter Crouch. I can think of at least 6 players that need moving on before those two,probably more if I had the time. Ill get back to you later if I can be bothered as some of us have a life to attend to
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