Gutless, Spineless and Talentless

[Staffsoatcake]

Post of the week,if not the season.

[pittshillplotter]

Dear Mr Coates...Just sack him please.
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pittshillplotter
Stoke City Legend




Life is not a dress reherasal , so go forth and multiply.!

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Dear Mr Coates...Just sack him please. about an hour ago
Quote
Post by pittshillplotter on about an hour ago
He's lost the dressing room, he's lost the fans , he's lost the plot and is about to lose our Premiership status and with it £ 100 million !

It can't get any worse , just look at what Di Canio has done for Sunderland.

I doubt if we'll score another goal this season , let alone win a game.

Please sign below if you agree...(On line petition)

Pulis out.!


Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/212444/dear-coates-sack#ixzz2QTriGnz0

[foster]

We played man united, the league champions. I'm not reading too much into this result.

Chill out a bit and let's focus on the next game.

Saying that, I never took the time to watch or stream the game and its one of the best weekends I've had in ages.

[onionman]

Very good post, Dave.

My only disagreement is that I don't think all the players are doing everything they can. We have a number of sulkers and tantrum throwers, and others who haven't shown leadership qualities we've seen from them in the past. The buck stops with Pulis for all the reasons you outline, but several of our players have plummeted in my estimation over the past three and a half months.

[skelman]

Pulis says it's now down to a 5 match season for survival!

With 1 point from the last 6 games I'm a tad concerned!!

By comparison Wigan have taken 10, Villa 10, Newcastle 6, Sunderland 5 & Norwich 3

Norwich game is massive but has to be added too

QPR & Norwich will be our defining games

& Wigan v Villa on the last day

[johnsmithsupper]

Apr 14, 2013 23:05:33 GMT foster said:

We played man united, the league champions. I'm not reading too much into this result.

Chill out a bit and let's focus on the next game.

Saying that, I never took the time to watch or stream the game and its one of the best weekends I've had in ages.

You'd have a different view if you had fozzy

[davejohnno1]

Apr 14, 2013 23:15:53 GMT onionman said:

Very good post, Dave.

My only disagreement is that I don't think all the players are doing everything they can. We have a number of sulkers and tantrum throwers, and others who haven't shown leadership qualities we've seen from them in the past. The buck stops with Pulis for all the reasons you outline, but several of our players have plummeted in my estimation over the past three and a half months.

I was referring purely to today though Onionman.

Over the course of the past few weeks and months, I'm inclined to agree with you.

I can't help but like Wilko for his sheer determination and I like Huth and Shawcross because they are good players. I like Sorenson for obvious reasons but the rest of them, I have very little affection for at all.

Many have gone down in my estimation too. None more so than our clueless, inept and lost manager. My love of Stoke City is at an all time low.

[onionman]

Apr 14, 2013 23:48:28 GMT davejohnno1 said:

Apr 14, 2013 23:15:53 GMT onionman said:

Very good post, Dave.

My only disagreement is that I don't think all the players are doing everything they can. We have a number of sulkers and tantrum throwers, and others who haven't shown leadership qualities we've seen from them in the past. The buck stops with Pulis for all the reasons you outline, but several of our players have plummeted in my estimation over the past three and a half months.

I was referring purely to today though Onionman.

Over the course of the past few weeks and months, I'm inclined to agree with you.

I can't help but like Wilko for his sheer determination and I like Huth and Shawcross because they are good players. I like Sorenson for obvious reasons but the rest of them, I have very little affection for at all.

Many have gone down in my estimation too. None more so than our clueless, inept and lost manager. My love of Stoke City is at an all time low.

Fair enough mate. Today was far from the worst effort from a bunch of Stoke players I've seen, although there were moments I was screaming at the TV - the failure of all our players to grab the bull by the horns from the corner Carrick scored from, and Jones waving his arms around to moan at Pulis or Walters instead of getting on with the game. Both signs of poor attitudes for me.

I've been disappointed with Ryan's leadership, but think that's more to do with his age, and he's still massively in credit in my book anyway. I'm more disappointed in Huth, as I think he's shown leadership previously but suddenly become a shrinking violet when we need him the most. Both are undoubtedly good eggs though, and deserve the benefit of the doubt for all they've done for us for several years up to Christmas 2012.

I think I'd recall Tommy. Not that Bego deserves dropping, just that Tommy's the only big character we've got left. We'd gain more from the confidence Tommy inspires than we currently gain from Bego's marginally better keeping skills, for me.

[jeycov]

Apr 14, 2013 23:31:03 GMT skelman said:

Pulis says it's now down to a 5 match season for survival!

With 1 point from the last 6 games I'm a tad concerned!!

By comparison Wigan have taken 10, Villa 10, Newcastle 6, Sunderland 5 & Norwich 3

Norwich game is massive but has to be added too

QPR & Norwich will be our defining games

& Wigan v Villa on the last day

Let's pray that Wigan and Villa don't need a point each to stay up!!!

Watching the rerun - the fans are great all things considering - not too sure what else we can do to lift the team


Neville is suggesting we return to our solid defence set up as we are not handling the "midfiled creative play idea" and have lost our discipline defending set pieces in particular

Our team for the last few years has never had 11 or more players of Premiership quality - we have survived by playing as a team.
Currently we do not have 11 players who are delivering Premiership quality football.

It may be a case of looking at a Wilkinson, Shawross, Huth and Wilson at the back formation, at least they are used to playing together and are confident of where each one should be.
Then it's 2 wingers to try to give some decent service to whoever is leading the attack.

[foster]

Apr 14, 2013 23:46:53 GMT johnsmithsupper said:

Apr 14, 2013 23:05:33 GMT foster said:

We played man united, the league champions. I'm not reading too much into this result.

Chill out a bit and let's focus on the next game.

Saying that, I never took the time to watch or stream the game and its one of the best weekends I've had in ages.

You'd have a different view if you had fozzy

More than likely yes.

I do feel however that we (fans in general) need to be behind the team now. The negativity as we've seen from the last few weeks isn't going to benefit anyone.

[davejohnno1]

Foster...The support are 100% behind the team and that was proven in no uncertain terms yesterday.

The support, for me, was absolutely fantastic. 100% behind the team and urging them on at every single opportunity.

Onionman...Some time has elapsed since your post above but for me, being at the game, I thought the players showed a great attitude and really gave it their best. I also thought they still showed that they are playing for the manager, even if some may disagree with what they are being asked to do.

Cameron, for example, was being asked to consistently play a high ball down the line by Pulis. He argued with him and seemed to be suggesting that the wind was making that particular ball almost impossible to play but he went back to trying to play it.

The crowd wanted our team to press Manure high up the pitch and at various points, bellowed them on. Save for one example of Adam urging his teammates up the pitch, the players sat deep, let Manure have the ball until they passed the centre circle, then tried to squeeze the play.

Even Owen, no doubt against his better and more natural instincts, carried out his managers instructions and plyed his trade in wide areas, filled in defensively for out of position colleagues and never once tried to break away from what his manager was asking of him.

For me, yesterday, that was the only positive. Clearly some of the players may not like what the manager is asking them to do but to a man, I believe they are all trying to do what he is asking of them.

The question now is whether what the manager is asking of them will be sufficient to keep us up. I don't think it will. Playing to keep our goal difference in some kind of tact was a pretty shameful way to lose a game in my book. We never truly gave it a go and played with a fear of getting thrashed. Compare that with Sunderland's performance yesterday and it makes for very sorry viewing.

[Deleted]

The open dissent between Pulis and the players was the most alarming aspect yesterday. Along with Gary Neville's clearly informed comments that there was a split in the camp between those who wanted the old methods, and those who wanted us to try something new. The players were trying, but there's a significant 'something' missing.

Not sure if I'm hyper-sensitive to the on field dissent at the moment, but it doesn't look at all healthy.

[jimmygscfc1234]

The players need a serious chat with the manager or else all will be lost. Is this likely to happen? In effect will mutiny save us? It's time for the senior players to speak to Pulis and tell him straight. Can't see it happening though.

I think Jones may have got himself a place on the bench next week although Samba is likely to bully Crouchie. However, QPR don't have the most solid defence and I'd rather us go for it than try and sneak a draw as you just know they'll score in the 87th minute. A winger next week is a necessity and Ethers and/or Kightly need game time as there's no bugger else to give us width or pop a cross in. I now think we're more likely to go down than stay up but I'm still going along on Saturday hoping and praying.

[elystokie]

Apr 15, 2013 8:24:06 GMT jimmygscfc1234 said:

The players need a serious chat with the manager or else all will be lost. Is this likely to happen? In effect will mutiny save us? It's time for the senior players to speak to Pulis and tell him straight. Can't see it happening though.

I think Jones may have got himself a place on the bench next week although Samba is likely to bully Crouchie. However, QPR don't have the most solid defence and I'd rather us go for it than try and sneak a draw as you just know they'll score in the 87th minute. A winger next week is a necessity and Ethers and/or Kightly need game time as there's no bugger else to give us width or pop a cross in. I now think we're more likely to go down than stay up but I'm still going along on Saturday hoping and praying.

We'll go on Saturday to defend the point we've got and probably concede sometime in the 2nd half when the constant pressure results in a goal, then he'll make a substitution or two (probably resulting in a team close to the one most fans would've started with) and we'll chase our own arses for a while and end up with fuck all.

It's what usually happens anyway.

[davejohnno1]

Sadly, Pulis' mentality is there for all to see with his comments to the Sentinel where he says "our goal difference is healthy so 40 points will be enough for us" or something along those lines.

We set out our stall not only not to lose but not to lose heavily. What a gutless, surrendering way to approach a game of football.

Pulis will go to QPR for a point and we will lose, most likely to some kind of wonder finish from Remy.

As Werrington alluded to either above or on another thread, our season came to a shuddering halt at Swansea and relegation was a very real prospect from that day forward. I don't think anyone should underestimate the impact that surrendering the Man City away game had on our players as well. It sent the wrong message completely.

Finally, I nearly puked when I saw Pulis say on Sky Sports that the difference now is that this year we didn't get our points on the board quickly enough. Fuck me, how quick does he want them?

We had 29/30 points before the New Year. The man is a complete and utter fool!

[okeydokeystokie2]

The team have got to stick together now. I thought they competed OK but we are desperately short on confidence and ideas upfront. Must have been Man Utd's most comfortable win of the season.

I honestly think TP is trying to manage this run in as best as he can. I think he had written off this game and didn't want a hammering. Our superior goal difference to Wigan and Villa could still be important. He's not a fool and he knows that we have more chance of picking up points in the next 5 games than on Saturday. I just hope he can get 2 decent games out of Etherington in the next 2 weeks.

I was surprised Kightly didn't play and the substitutions were very confused. I can't understand why he didn't play Jerome and Owen up front with KJ/Crouch as a front 3 for the last 15 minutes. I still believe we are one performance away from getting some pattern and confidence back and have to keep believing we can get a minimum of 4 points from the next 3 games.

We've got to keep the faith. It would be a huge opportunity lost to be relegated this season, and I still think it will finally be Wigan's turn this year.

[sheikhmomo]

You are being unfathomably kind on the players dave. They were shit.

[davejohnno1]

They were shit MoMo but it wasn't due to a lack of effort in my opinion.

When you give up a game before it has started, send them out not to lose by too many goals and start the game with 5 out of your 10 outfield players out of position, I think it is pretty certain that the performance will be shit.

It is kind of inevitable really. Surely even you will be pointing fingers in the direction of the manager after we lose to QPR next week?

EDIT - Okey...Why if Pulis wanted to bring someone on in a wide position, did he opt for Michael Owen instead of Kightly, who afterall, had scored in the previous game? The decisions he is making just don't make sense to anyone who has even the remotest understanding of football.

I took my mum to the game yesterday and even she couldn't understand it. Players out of position and KJ in a different post code to the rest of the team is all she spoke about really, asking "WHY". If she can see it, any fucker can see it.

EDIT 2 - OKEY - I sense a change in your confidence mate with that last post. You refer to Wigan and seem to suggest/believe, that they will save us. I think you may be right, and hope you are, particularly with them being in the cup final but Wigan aside, do you believe that we are capable of saving ourselves? I don't and haven't since Swansea away!

[sheikhmomo]

Apr 15, 2013 8:46:25 GMT davejohnno1 said:

They were shit MoMo but it wasn't due to a lack of effort in my opinion.

When you give up a game before it has started, send them out not to lose by too many goals and start the game with 5 out of your 10 outfield players out of position, I think it is pretty certain that the performance will be shit.

It is kind of inevitable really. Surely even you will be pointing fingers in the direction of the manager after we lose to QPR next week?

My fingers are already pointing dave. I simply can't see him remaining in the job regardless of the outcome of this desperate season now. I think some of the players are getting away with murder though. Weak minded and talentless and a couple don't seem to give a flying fuck. The Captain is a fine player but about as inspirational as a prawn sandwich. N'Zonzi is a mercenary, Whelan is League 1 standard, Geoff Cameron is not a footballer as I understand the term, Shotton is toss, Jones looks like he's fielding at third man rather than playing top flight football, Walters looks like he needs a week in Rhyl. I could go on and on. Utter shit.

[Kingswaystokie]

Excellent post.

Manure didn't even have to get out of second gear to win easily, they took the piss second half out of my team.

Compare that to Sunderland, they battled and chased every ball like we used to do.

Please Tony, thanks for everything, but do the honourable thing and just go.

Any defeat hurts, but that was totally unacceptable.

[Deleted]

The only positive you can take from the current situation is the money that can be made on our games. For the third game in recent weeks I’ve lumped on the opposition and made easy money. I take no pleasure out of it but why shouldn’t you make money out of our current car crash of a situation? Bet with your head, not your heart.

That result was never in question yesterday. They scored early and then sat back and controlled the game. They were never under any pressure. We never pressed them. They’ll never have had it easier than that. They stuck Rooney in midfield with the thinking being “Pulis doesn’t recognise the centre of the pitch as an area of importance” and he just freely roamed around, dictating the tempo of the match. Watching that yesterday you would have thought we were in mid table obscurity with nothing to play for. Where was the fight? The passion? The urgency?

We all know they are the best team in the league but that doesn’t mean you wave the white flag before a ball is kicked. It’s bad enough we have to put up with that negativity away from home but now it’s creeping in at our home matches too.

Our biggest problem right now is scoring goals, and the main reason for that is the lack of service and the limited number of chances that we create. What is the Managers answer to that problem? That’s right, start just 1 up front and select no wingers in the Starting XI.

As soon as the team sheet was announced you knew we were done for. How are you supposed to play a 4-5-1 system with no wingers? Where are the outlets? How are you going to break from midfield to support the lone man up front with no pace and no width?

He’s spent millions on Kightly, Etherington, Shea and Pennant and none of them are selected. We are subjected to a right footed forward on the left and a defender on the right. We might just be fans without the Managerial knowledge and experience of running a Premier League club but the deficiencies are frustratingly obvious. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where it is all going wrong. We are at our best with 2 wingers in the side, it’s as simple as that. For the love of God Tony, just select wingers in the wide positions. Give us a chance of winning a game. Give us a chance of causing the opposition a problem or two. Give the centre forward a chance at actually scoring a goal, give them just a little bit of service.

We are in a massive hole right now. Until recently our best bets were Sunderland, Wigan and Villa being one of the teams worse than us to save our Managers blushes over his complete incompetency. Sunderland looked as dead as us until a couple of weeks ago but they’ve taken action and they seem to be reaping the rewards. They’ve made the change, they’ve freshened it up and it’s given the whole place a lift. They are bouncing right now and it looks like they could very well go on to get the points required, with a banker 3 from us along the way, no doubt, supplied by our ultra-negative manager. Villa have started picking points up too so it’s down to Wigan now. There are big problems when you’ve basically given up on your own team and started rooting for somebody else to be shitter than the shit that’s being served up at your own club. Give me steak and chips any day over the dross being served up right now.

One quote summed it up for me from Pulis after the game. A snippet which has me worried that we’re destined to go down: -

"Every year since we have been in this league it has been tough. What we need is a break, a little bit of luck”

And there you have it. He still thinks everything is fine. We’re playing really well, creating the chances but lady luck just isn’t on our side.

He’s taking us down and Coates is standing by doing nothing.

I’ve lost the will with it all. I honestly don’t see us staying up without a drastic change in approach from Tony Pulis, and the quote above tells us that won’t happen.

Hopefully a new Manager next Season, even if it is in the Championship, will get some of the enthusiasm back that I used to have for Stoke City Football Club.

[davejohnno1]

I can give you another positive WD.

If we do go down, the price per game in the Championship will be £ 17.35 as opposed to £ 21 per game for my usual seat. I might also be able to stretch out again!

We will get more games, more night games which means more time in the pub with your pals!

[okeydokeystokie2]

You're right Dave, my faith is wavering. That's why I said the subs were confused. If you want someone to play on the right, put Kightly on. After his goal I thought he might have started, with Shotton back at RB where he had looked OK. If you are going to put Owen on, get him in the box.

I want to get Matty fit for the next 2 games and play him and Kights as more orthodox wingers. If we can get balls into the box from higher up the pitch it would be an improvement. Does he play 3 in centre mid? I think Adam has to play. I really wish we could find a groove; a settled team and pattern of play. We are all over the place at the moment.

We look like a relegation side, but I still believe that we can get out of it. Add that to the fact that QPR and Reading have gone, Wigan's run in looks like it could leave them with too much to do. I think there will be one more team dragged right in it, and after the weekend it could be Newcastle Utd. They were poor and have a tough 5 games ahead. They have QPR at home, which like us playing Norwich will determine our respective fates.

I just hope that we are one win away from getting some confidence back. Surely this run has got to come to an end soon, if only by the law of averages!

[davejohnno1]

Apr 15, 2013 9:08:16 GMT okeydokeystokie2 said:

You're right Dave, my faith is wavering. That's why I said the subs were confused. If you want someone to play on the right, put Kightly on. After his goal I thought he might have started, with Shotton back at RB where he had looked OK. If you are going to put Owen on, get him in the box.

I want to get Matty fit for the next 2 games and play him and Kights as more orthodox wingers. If we can get balls into the box from higher up the pitch it would be an improvement. Does he play 3 in centre mid? I think Adam has to play. I really wish we could find a groove; a settled team and pattern of play. We are all over the place at the moment.

We look like a relegation side, but I still believe that we can get out of it. Add that to the fact that QPR and Reading have gone, Wigan's run in looks like it could leave them with too much to do. I think there will be one more team dragged right in it, and after the weekend it could be Newcastle Utd. They were poor and have a tough 5 games ahead. They have QPR at home, which like us playing Norwich will determine our respective fates.

I just hope that we are one win away from getting some confidence back. Surely this run has got to come to an end soon, if only by the law of averages!

What a bloody mess mate. Regardless of which side of the fence anyone sits on with regards to Pulis (and we have often been polar opposites), none of us wanted this.

I didn't sleep on Friday because of a wriggling little 5 year old. I didn't sleep on Saturday because my mind was on the team I saw posted by Bayern just before I went to bed and barely slept a wink last night because the game and our lack of ambition to win the game was flowing through my brain. I have a second child due just before the Sunderland game and I need my sleep. I aren't going to get any with us in this mess!

It is a sad and sorry state of affairs that really shouldn't have been on the radar after dispatching Liverpool the way we did on Boxing day.

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2013 8:54:48 GMT sheikhmomo said:

Apr 15, 2013 8:46:25 GMT davejohnno1 said:

They were shit MoMo but it wasn't due to a lack of effort in my opinion.

When you give up a game before it has started, send them out not to lose by too many goals and start the game with 5 out of your 10 outfield players out of position, I think it is pretty certain that the performance will be shit.

It is kind of inevitable really. Surely even you will be pointing fingers in the direction of the manager after we lose to QPR next week?

My fingers are already pointing dave. I simply can't see him remaining in the job regardless of the outcome of this desperate season now. I think some of the players are getting away with murder though. Weak minded and talentless and a couple don't seem to give a flying fuck. The Captain is a fine player but about as inspirational as a prawn sandwich. N'Zonzi is a mercenary, Whelan is League 1 standard, Geoff Cameron is not a footballer as I understand the term, Shotton is toss, Jones looks like he's fielding at third man rather than playing top flight football, Walters looks like he needs a week in Rhyl. I could go on and on. Utter shit.

Hard to disagree with any of that.

[1863]

Width, 'aint what it used to be Agree with everything you say OP, including your brutally honest but accurate portrayal of the present managerial incumbent. (I'm that p**** off with him after yesterday's surrender) I can't even say his name

[davejohnno1]

I wholeheartedly agree that Geoff Cameron is not a footballer MoMo.

You may recall a post I made earlier in the season about his likely arrival as a footballer. I was openly mocked by some who thought he was our player of the season up to that point. I would really love to know how he came to be a footballer because he is absolutely shocking and was most culpable for their opening goal yesterday AGAIN.(though what Ryan was doing going across KJ's line of sight and what Whelan was doing hiding directly behind the goalkeeper is also quite mystifying)

I also posted about N'zonzi and his sullen ways back in November. I mentioned the fact that he arrived at training, spoke to no-one, trained and went home. People on here told me it wasn't an issue. It was. It is and if it wasn't an issue when we were doing relatively well, it is a massive issue now. If you are going to fight effectively, you have to be fighting alongside people you like and respect.

For whatever reason, allegedly because he doesn't like the role he is being asked to play, N'zonzi has long since stopped enjoying playing for Stoke City.

[okeydokeystokie2]

I agree. Hopefully it will turn out that it was pragmatic, and not gutless and spineless. Maybe he was worried that we might concede another couple if we went more gung ho.

I don't think he'll go for it against QPR. He'll try to sneak a draw or a scrappy win with a defensive set up. Norwich is going to be a horrible game. They will come for a draw, so I think we have got to fly out of the traps and batter them from the start. We have to score first in that game.

We've still to see the real Sunderland too. They were gifted the first goal by a poor Newcastle and were very lucky not to concede at 1-0. They've got Everton at home next week, which will tell us more.

One decent performance and result will make a huge difference. Still believe we can pick up points and will be OK.

[kerouac]

Brilliantly put chief,
The most excitement I've had from Stoke these last few months is the prospect of Pulis going.

[sheikhmomo]

Apr 15, 2013 9:21:00 GMT davejohnno1 said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Geoff Cameron is not a footballer MoMo.

You may recall a post I made earlier in the season about his likely arrival as a footballer. I was openly mocked by some who thought he was our player of the season up to that point. I would really love to know how he came to be a footballer because he is absolutely shocking and was most culpable for their opening goal yesterday AGAIN.(though what Ryan was doing going across KJ's line of sight and what Whelan was doing hiding directly behind the goalkeeper is also quite mystifying)

I also posted about N'zonzi and his sullen ways back in November. I mentioned the fact that he arrived at training, spoke to no-one, trained and went home. People on here told me it wasn't an issue. It was. It is and if it wasn't an issue when we were doing relatively well, it is a massive issue now. If you are going to fight effectively, you have to be fighting alongside people you like and respect.

For whatever reason, allegedly because he doesn't like the role he is being asked to play, N'zonzi has long since stopped enjoying playing for Stoke City.

You've certainly banged the Cameron's shite drum, dave and you were right to. He's not just rubbish but he's a a walking liability, an accident in waiting.