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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 4, 2012 22:19:56 GMT
Having signed Owen and Adam, I think we can safely assume that our days of utilising 2 out and out wingers are well and truly finished.
Pulis is reluctant enough to play two of them, especially away, without having to incorporate free spirits of the like of Owen and Adam in his team as well.
Assuming Adam will be allowed to operate outside of the cage, and assuming that if we ever get him fit, Owen will simply have to start games, I have racked my brains as to how we may approach games with these two in the team.
I think a modfied 4-4-2 will be used, like we used for the second half of Saturday's game, will be our preferred option moving forward.
A solid back 4, with three narrow midfielders, two of which will predominatly hold with Adam moving outside the cage, 1 wide/floating player (Kightly/Walters) with Crouch and Owen up front.
This will still leave Pulis with his preferred 6 defensive players, with a 7th and 8th (Adam + Walters/Kightly) doing a bit of both.
I expect to see us lining up with something like the following moving forward;
Asmir/Tommy
Wilko/Cameron, Huth, Shawcross, Wilson/Edu
Whelan/Cameron, N'zonzi, Adam, Kightly/Walters
Owen, Crouch
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 22:22:06 GMT
No....this is the start of a beautifully productive new era.....Style, class, free flowing football and a new series of that American Classic ''Dallas''.
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Post by boomboom on Sept 4, 2012 22:24:21 GMT
Owen and Jones up front......theres lovely for you!!
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 4, 2012 22:25:15 GMT
Depends. I think in a 433 players such as Knightly and N'Zogbia would be ideal as the partners for the centre forward. They can both put crosses in as well as score a reasonable number of goals. Ethers certainly doen't pose the goal threat that N'Zogbia would nor does Pennant pose the goal threat of Kightly. Pennant and Ethers are more conventional wingers.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Sept 4, 2012 22:28:17 GMT
Nooooooooooooooooo Adam would never work in a 4-4-2 it'll have to be 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 which I think is the most likely
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 4, 2012 22:29:30 GMT
My issue is that you can see it all fitting together and something resembling a vision in TP's mind with the signings of Cameron, N'Zonzi and Adam. You then put Owen in and it throws the whole thing out of the window and everything's back up in the air.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Sept 4, 2012 22:32:19 GMT
I think you could be right, Dave but with TP using Walters as a right winger in a 4-4-2.
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Post by pickins on Sept 4, 2012 22:40:20 GMT
I think this is the start of a legimate ' plan b '.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Sept 4, 2012 22:42:14 GMT
We are making assumptions but trying to second guess TP thinking with the signing of Adam and Owen is really difficult.
Will he really drop JW ? He is the best (only) option for the "Walters Role" but is he the best for a wide role (not for me) or will he get a new lease of life with an attacking forward role ?
I can't see Owen as a regular starter.
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Post by mrlovepants on Sept 4, 2012 22:43:53 GMT
I feel (hope) that most of our recent signings will actually lead to a more exciting line up, and I would welcome that, as I only get to away games in the Sarf, but i am now in a quandry. I had intended to forgo watching the mighty Potters on the road, after seeing some true awful away games, and spend my money instead, on going to the USA to catch the Graham Parker and The Rumour tour in November. At least I know they will play when they get to a venue (if still alive), but now, the idea of winning at the Emirates and Fulham, doesn't seem so impossible, if........
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Post by boomboom on Sept 4, 2012 22:51:08 GMT
If he starts a game in the League I wll be very suprised. From the bench is where he will be most effective, may start in FA Cup but can't see it really.
Could occupy the opposition thinking from the bench........create space for others etc....its not all about his goals scored tally, he could make us tick as much as anyone if he stays fit. Looking forward to see him play in late October at the earliest is my guess.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 4, 2012 22:53:28 GMT
You could well be right Dave but surely not Whelan right wing? Whitehead or Walters more likely with Kightly on the left. If it meant Adam had total freedom to play his natural game with Nzonzi, Edu or Cameron as the defensive mid then I'd have no problem with it ( albeit having no creativity from the right.
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Post by justinp on Sept 4, 2012 23:56:35 GMT
I don't think Pulis wants to stop playing with out and out wingers, it's a massive part of his game, I just really don't think that the options to upgrade on Pennant and Etherington were out there and he's realised we need to move with what was available.
I think it will be a modified 4-4-2/4-3-3/4-5-1 with Walters and Kightly as the 'wide men' in a forward 3, dropping back to a 4-5-1 when defending.
Adam, Whelan and Whitehead as the midfield 3 and Cameron, Huth, Shawcross, Wilson as the back 4, with either side of attack meaning Cameron pushes forward on the right, if we attack down the right, and Wilson dropping back to make a flat 3 and vice versa. Jerome and Owen as back up options for the front 3, with Walters filling in any other position because he will play 90 minutes every single game.
It's one thing I noticed, and I watched the game again without looking at the ball to see our shape, and it did seem that we were offset to the left, with kightly out wide and walters dropping in on the right inside. and yes, Wilson pushing forward when the play went down the left and cameron pushing forward when the play went down the right. Also, Whelan and Whitehead were dropping back into defence quite a lot, at certain points in the game whitehead was the furthest player forward, and at others the furthest player back.
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Post by cousindupree on Sept 5, 2012 0:08:15 GMT
Depends. I think in a 433 players such as Knightly and N'Zogbia would be ideal as the partners for the centre forward. They can both put crosses in as well as score a reasonable number of goals. Ethers certainly doen't pose the goal threat that N'Zogbia would nor does Pennant pose the goal threat of Kightly. Pennant and Ethers are more conventional wingers. If only we had signed N'Zogbia he would be ideal although 2 goals in 32 for Villa doesn't really eclipse Ethers goal scoring record . However I am struggling to understand what relevance he has when discussing our potential 4-3-3 formation? ??? |
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Post by amancalledhorse on Sept 5, 2012 0:14:12 GMT
I like the look of Cameron and want him to start, but I don't see him at FB. He looks good with the ball and not so great without it. His positioning in particular I've noticed is a cause for concern.
As MD notes, with him, Adam(s) and N'Zonzi as a midfield three, it resembles something that Pulis might play.
With Owen, we're looking at 442 which presumably would see him play N'Zonzi and Adam as Whitehead/Whelan upgrades. Ultimately, I don't see that getting the best out of Owen or Adam and it was that reasoning that made me not fancy signing either of them in the first place.
I could imagine a team with N'Zonzi, Adam, Crouch and Owen absolutely savaging weaker opposition, wingers or not, but against better opponents (arguably all the PL) I don't like the sound of it.
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Post by stockportstokie on Sept 5, 2012 0:25:22 GMT
That system would be even shitter than the SJW 4-4-1. We'd be played off the park, it's basically fucking off an extra man (Walters) when not in possession. It would involve dropping deep as fuck without the ball, with no pace for swift counter attacks it would be a complete shitter.
Some variant of 4-3-2-1 would be the best use of resources imo.
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Post by RAF on Sept 5, 2012 3:03:32 GMT
Depends. I think in a 433 players such as Knightly and N'Zogbia would be ideal as the partners for the centre forward. They can both put crosses in as well as score a reasonable number of goals. Ethers certainly doen't pose the goal threat that N'Zogbia would nor does Pennant pose the goal threat of Kightly. Pennant and Ethers are more conventional wingers. N'Zogbia? When did we sign him then? H |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 5, 2012 4:32:06 GMT
Nobody plays with 2 wingers anymore in a 4-4-2 particularly with our previous central midfield , we were being outplayed by all and sundry ,last season . Even at home . Glad TPs having a rethink , as for the Walters role , it may not be needed with a tighter midfield
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 5, 2012 5:03:54 GMT
Depends. I think in a 433 players such as Knightly and N'Zogbia would be ideal as the partners for the centre forward. They can both put crosses in as well as score a reasonable number of goals. Ethers certainly doen't pose the goal threat that N'Zogbia would nor does Pennant pose the goal threat of Kightly. Pennant and Ethers are more conventional wingers. *Ahem* *cough* Charles N'Zogbia: Attacking midfield player capable of partnering centre forward, crossing and scoring goals. Plays for Aston Villa. Steven N'Zonzi: The player we've signed. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 5, 2012 5:11:03 GMT
Depends. I think in a 433 players such as Knightly and N'Zogbia would be ideal as the partners for the centre forward. They can both put crosses in as well as score a reasonable number of goals. Ethers certainly doen't pose the goal threat that N'Zogbia would nor does Pennant pose the goal threat of Kightly. Pennant and Ethers are more conventional wingers. *Ahem* *cough* Charles N'Zogbia: Attacking midfield player capable of partnering centre forward, crossing and scoring goals. Plays for Aston Villa. Steven N'Zonzi: The player we've signed. You should take some cough syrup - make sure that cough doesn't end up on your chest as my mum used to say! ;D I'm well aware that we have signed N'Zonzi and not N'Zogbia. I was pointing out that 433 works with two wingers if they are type such as Kightly and N'Zogbia who can operate both as wingers and strikers. I would like to have seen us sign N'Zogbia in the window and I still think he (or a left footer of his type) would be worth bringing in in January - sibject, of course, to moving on one or two of our other strikers. |
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 5, 2012 5:19:01 GMT
*Ahem* *cough* Charles N'Zogbia: Attacking midfield player capable of partnering centre forward, crossing and scoring goals. Plays for Aston Villa. Steven N'Zonzi: The player we've signed. You should take some cough syrup - make sure that cough doesn't end up on your chest as my mum used to say! ;D I'm well aware that we have signed N'Zonzi and not N'Zogbia. I was pointing out that 433 works with two wingers if they are type such as Kightly and N'Zogbia who can operate both as wingers and strikers. I would like to have seen us sign N'Zogbia in the window and I still think he (or a left footer of his type) would be worth bringing in in January - sibject, of course, to moving on one or two of our other strikers. Several cans of "cough syrup" consumed... can you now account for your grievous misspelling of Kightly as "Knightly"?? ?  |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 5, 2012 5:44:37 GMT
You should take some cough syrup - make sure that cough doesn't end up on your chest as my mum used to say! ;D I'm well aware that we have signed N'Zonzi and not N'Zogbia. I was pointing out that 433 works with two wingers if they are type such as Kightly and N'Zogbia who can operate both as wingers and strikers. I would like to have seen us sign N'Zogbia in the window and I still think he (or a left footer of his type) would be worth bringing in in January - sibject, of course, to moving on one or two of our other strikers. Several cans of "cough syrup" consumed... can you now account for your grievous misspelling of Kightly as "Knightly"?? ? No - "its a mystery" - as that bird with the lisp * used to sing!  * Toyah Wilcox |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 7:22:30 GMT
I have no bloody idea what formation or even which players will get a starting berth but I know for sure that you lot are deluded if you think that SJW will not be part of it.
For me, there are only 5 names that are guaranteed a starting place - AB, RS, RH, SJW & PC. Hot on the tails of them we have MW.
Given that MO is not likely to be Stoke fit & therefore wont start v Citeh, the Formation & team I'd like to see is
----------------Begovic---------
Whitehead/Wilko----Shawx-----Huth-----Wilson/Edu
---------------Cameron----------------
-----SJW/JP-------Nzonzi--------Ethers/Kightly--------
---------------Adam-------------
---------------Crouch-------------
We just simply have too many players & no Europe to pacify players. Will be hard for TP to keep everyone happy.
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Post by stokerambler on Sept 5, 2012 8:33:01 GMT
It may well be the end of two out and out wingers but Pulis has been reluctant to play two wingers for some time anyway. The difference now is that we have the potential for creativity in centre midfield - a barren desert in the past.
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Post by jeycov on Sept 5, 2012 8:39:05 GMT
Pennant may raise his game with the new arrivals.
In particular, Adam and Kightly
Did he play alongside Owen at Liverpool at all?
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Post by mattythestokie on Sept 5, 2012 8:46:09 GMT
WE WILL NOT PLAY 4-3-3! Why do people kid themselves into thinking we will play 4-3-3? It will be 4-4-1-1 this season like it has been for the past seasons (apart from when Owen comes on for the final 20 minutes)
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Post by RAF on Sept 5, 2012 9:06:00 GMT
*Ahem* *cough* Charles N'Zogbia: Attacking midfield player capable of partnering centre forward, crossing and scoring goals. Plays for Aston Villa. Steven N'Zonzi: The player we've signed. You should take some cough syrup - make sure that cough doesn't end up on your chest as my mum used to say! ;D I'm well aware that we have signed N'Zonzi and not N'Zogbia. I was pointing out that 433 works with two wingers if they are type such as Kightly and N'Zogbia who can operate both as wingers and strikers. I would like to have seen us sign N'Zogbia in the window and I still think he (or a left footer of his type) would be worth bringing in in January - sibject, of course, to moving on one or two of our other strikers. Yeah righto! How long on your hill walk did it take you to make that one up? H |
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Sept 5, 2012 9:21:52 GMT
You've got to admit though H, that John has done a marvellous job of covering his tracks. |
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Post by RAF on Sept 5, 2012 9:23:53 GMT
You've got to admit though H, that John has done a marvellous job of covering his tracks. Indeed mate H |
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Post by gnosallpotter on Sept 5, 2012 9:40:10 GMT
Interesting quandry now given the signings of Adam (an attacking midfielder - nothing else) and Owen (an off the shoulder of the last defender type), I think we will see a much more fluid team shape in attack and defence.
It may be a slow process given that a lot of Pulis's tactics are based around shape shape shape, but its certainly lending itself to the idea that we might actually start having a plan B, and move away from a rigid 4-4-1-1 to see a 4-2-1-3 or 4-2-1-2-1 etc. Positive vibes.
Co-incidentally I think our strongest team will be the following:
Begovic
Wilkinson - Huth - Shawcross - Wilson (this depends on whether Edu is our new RB or not!)
N'Zonzi - Cameron / Whelan
Adam
Kightly - Etherington (Etherington is much better at getting into goalscoring opportunities, and converting them(!) than JP)
Crouchy
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