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Post by smigchop on Jun 7, 2012 14:59:00 GMT
johnny Halls anyone?
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 7, 2012 15:03:38 GMT
Which young players have we seen come in and then not a get a chance before going on to great things elsewhere? Please don't say Marshall as he's yet to prove anything at our level. I could understand cynicism if we released real quality and they ended up proving us wrong (Marshall may do that or may not) but perhaps our youngsters simply to date weren't good enough. All the fuss when say Adam Vass left was a prime example as he didn't cut it at a high level and now playing in Serie B. This lad may or may not be good enough but if he is I'm sure he'll get his chance. Not like we're blessed with good full-backs. How are you 'sure he'll get his chance?' Marshall might well not be ready, but do you really think he's a worse option out wide than Ryan Shotton? Never in this lifetime. The point is that by and large we don't really look to sign young players for the first team. TP just isn't interested in doing it. Of the ones he has signed in recent years, there's just Begovic and Shawcross, with Shotton and Wilson stuck out of position as sticking plasters more often than not. Rob, you have already stated that Shawx doesn't count so you shouldn't be using him as an example. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 15:09:28 GMT
How are you 'sure he'll get his chance?' Marshall might well not be ready, but do you really think he's a worse option out wide than Ryan Shotton? Never in this lifetime. The point is that by and large we don't really look to sign young players for the first team. TP just isn't interested in doing it. Of the ones he has signed in recent years, there's just Begovic and Shawcross, with Shotton and Wilson stuck out of position as sticking plasters more often than not. Rob, you have already stated that Shawcross doesn't count so you shouldn't be using him as an example. Where have I stated that? Of course he counts. He's the exception that proves the rule. Hardly typifies the approach overall does he? |
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 7, 2012 15:41:55 GMT
Rob, you have already stated that Shawcross doesn't count so you shouldn't be using him as an example. Where have I stated that? Of course he counts. He's the exception that proves the rule. Hardly typifies the approach overall does he? When we were going round in circles before about TP not giving young players a chance, perhaps because they aren't good enough. Shawx didn't count as he is your exception that proves ..... oh hang on ... erm perhaps he is good enough, so he plays him, but that doesn't count! So perhaps the problem is they aren't good enough as opposed to being an 'approach'. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 17:49:38 GMT
Where have I stated that? Of course he counts. He's the exception that proves the rule. Hardly typifies the approach overall does he? When we were going round in circles before about TP not giving young players a chance, perhaps because they aren't good enough. Shawcross didn't count as he is your exception that proves ..... oh hang on ... erm perhaps he is good enough, so he plays him, but that doesn't count! So perhaps the problem is they aren't good enough as opposed to being an 'approach'. You've lost me. I never said Shawcross didn't count, I said he's the exception that proves the rule. Which he is. Unless you're seriously suggesting that he's the only young player in the country we could have signed over the last five years who would have been good enough for our first team? Tell me if you think this is a fair statement or not: TP doesn't sign many young players. |
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Post by innercircle on Jun 7, 2012 17:57:14 GMT
it was Rudge who did EVERYTHING in the shawcross deal
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Post by salopstick on Jun 7, 2012 18:56:42 GMT
This bloke is the 6th 18-year-old , who's been released by another club, we've signed this summer on a pro deal. And the needs of this U-21 squad has meant that we've given an unprecedented amount of pro deals to our 2nd year Academy players. He may be great - but we primarily just need footballers with a pulse who are under 21 to figure in this development squad, which is compulsory for Grade 1 Academies. Whatever the whys and wherefores, though, it's nice to see a group of young professionals at the club. Hopefully there might be a couple of late developers amongst them who blossom in this U-21 league. Probably a bit of a long shot as anyone with a real chance would've been kept on elsewhere, but you never know - there may be a real late bloomer there. It looks like he chose to leave rather than be released |
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Post by RAF on Jun 7, 2012 19:14:46 GMT
I honestly can't see any problem with this signing whatsoever.
It's not like we have spunked £3 million quid on an overrated Uraguayan again.
H
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Post by bolders on Jun 7, 2012 20:40:39 GMT
Im going to put my two pence in here if i may.
Arsenal were abit sceptical about giving him a full pro contract this year due to an injury and wanted more time with him so after that year they may have or may not have given him a pro contract because they believed he didnt come up to Arsenal standards.
So using this he might not of been up to Arsenal standards youth but he might be up to our standards, because there is a hell of a difference between what we can hope for in an acadamy player, at the moment, and what Arsenal expect from their youth.
So give the lad a chance you never know he might break through even if Pulis is stubborn.
Time will tell
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2012 21:15:58 GMT
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 8, 2012 7:27:43 GMT
When we were going round in circles before about TP not giving young players a chance, perhaps because they aren't good enough. Shawcross didn't count as he is your exception that proves ..... oh hang on ... erm perhaps he is good enough, so he plays him, but that doesn't count! So perhaps the problem is they aren't good enough as opposed to being an 'approach'. You've lost me. I never said Shawcross didn't count, I said he's the exception that proves the rule. Which he is. Unless you're seriously suggesting that he's the only young player in the country we could have signed over the last five years who would have been good enough for our first team? Tell me if you think this is a fair statement or not: TP doesn't sign many young players. Sorry rob but having an exception means you don't have a rule. We have a number of 'young' players, whether TP has been involved in the signing and how much involvement I have no idea, and doubt many people have. To be honest I don't care what age a player is, just whether they are 'good enough' and include in that they have the 'can't be arsed to try' gene removed. |
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Post by RAF on Jun 8, 2012 7:34:14 GMT
I'm sorry Wembley but that is utter rubbish.
'Parking prohibited on Sundays' is an example of an exception.
It shows there is a rule that parking is allowed the other 6 days of the week.
H
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Post by nutterpotter on Jun 8, 2012 7:36:03 GMT
Which footballer did you pretend to be on the playground and why? I used to pretend to be Brazilian international Daniel Alves because I use pace to my advantage like him  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 7:45:46 GMT
You've lost me. I never said Shawcross didn't count, I said he's the exception that proves the rule. Which he is. Unless you're seriously suggesting that he's the only young player in the country we could have signed over the last five years who would have been good enough for our first team? Tell me if you think this is a fair statement or not: TP doesn't sign many young players. Sorry rob but having an exception means you don't have a rule. We have a number of 'young' players, whether TP has been involved in the signing and how much involvement I have no idea, and doubt many people have. To be honest I don't care what age a player is, just whether they are 'good enough' and include in that they have the 'can't be arsed to try' gene removed. Bollocks. Of course you can have exceptions to the rule. We have a number of young players, but the fact of the matter is that in TP's ten years at the club precious few players have become regulars before their mid-20s, and precious few first team players have been signed and played regularly in their early 20s. Begovic, Shawcross and to an extent Halls are the exceptions, others have been sticking plasters like Shotton and Wilson barged out of position or Wilko, who even now in his late 20s he's tried to replace every season without fail and who he released when he was still a 'kiddie'. |
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 8, 2012 7:46:12 GMT
I'm sorry Wembley but that is utter rubbish. 'Parking prohibited on Sundays' is an example of an exception. It shows there is a rule that parking is allowed the other 6 days of the week. H ;D I can't argue with logic like that!!!! What a great post. ;D |
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 8, 2012 7:52:47 GMT
Sorry rob but having an exception means you don't have a rule. We have a number of 'young' players, whether TP has been involved in the signing and how much involvement I have no idea, and doubt many people have. To be honest I don't care what age a player is, just whether they are 'good enough' and include in that they have the 'can't be arsed to try' gene removed. Bollocks. Of course you can have exceptions to the rule. We have a number of young players, but the fact of the matter is that in TP's ten years at the club precious few players have become regulars before their mid-20s, and precious few first team players have been signed and played regularly in their early 20s. Begovic, Shawcross and to an extent Halls are the exceptions, others have been sticking plasters like Shotton and Wilson barged out of position or Wilko, who even now in his late 20s he's tried to replace every season without fail and who he released when he was still a 'kiddie'. ok rob, you have you cake and eat it, I'm not going round in circles again as I know I could never compete with you. As for Wilko, perhaps TP doesn't think he's good enough. And quite frankly I'd have to agree with him. Love the guy, love his passion for the club, but he will always let you down at some point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 7:56:31 GMT
Bollocks. Of course you can have exceptions to the rule. We have a number of young players, but the fact of the matter is that in TP's ten years at the club precious few players have become regulars before their mid-20s, and precious few first team players have been signed and played regularly in their early 20s. Begovic, Shawcross and to an extent Halls are the exceptions, others have been sticking plasters like Shotton and Wilson barged out of position or Wilko, who even now in his late 20s he's tried to replace every season without fail and who he released when he was still a 'kiddie'. ok rob, you have you cake and eat it, I'm not going round in circles again as I know I could never compete with you. As for Wilko, perhaps TP doesn't think he's good enough. And quite frankly I'd have to agree with him. Love the guy, love his passion for the club, but he will always let you down at some point. He has the odd bad game and we can improve on him, but he's still the best right back at the club, and by a distance. I don't see how it's having my cake and eating it to suggest that on the whole the manager doesn't play young players. The facts bear that out don't they? |
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 8, 2012 8:09:57 GMT
ok rob, you have you cake and eat it, I'm not going round in circles again as I know I could never compete with you. As for Wilko, perhaps TP doesn't think he's good enough. And quite frankly I'd have to agree with him. Love the guy, love his passion for the club, but he will always let you down at some point. He has the odd bad game and we can improve on him, but he's still the best right back at the club, and by a distance. I don't see how it's having my cake and eating it to suggest that on the whole the manager doesn't play young players. The facts bear that out don't they? Wilko has the odd good game. I refer you back to the exception good enough circle! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 8:36:02 GMT
He has the odd bad game and we can improve on him, but he's still the best right back at the club, and by a distance. I don't see how it's having my cake and eating it to suggest that on the whole the manager doesn't play young players. The facts bear that out don't they? Wilko has the odd good game. I refer you back to the exception good enough circle! Wilko has plenty of good games and is the best right back at the club. He's the only player we have who actually knows how to play as an honest to goodness full back for starters. A long way from perfect, and an injury worry, but definitely part of our best back four. |
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 8, 2012 8:43:50 GMT
Wilko has the odd good game. I refer you back to the exception good enough circle! Wilko has plenty of good games and is the best right back at the club. He's the only player we have who actually knows how to play as an honest to goodness full back for starters. A long way from perfect, and an injury worry, but definitely part of our best back four. He may be our best right back when he plays well, but the fact remains we need better. It was a huge disappointment, that we didn't resolve this issue in January and it needs to be addressed in this window. Unless of course this new kiddie is 'good enough' to be another exception! How many other PL teams would Wilko get picked for? |
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Post by Kingswaystokie on Jun 8, 2012 9:34:25 GMT
Wonder where he will go out on loan to ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 9:35:55 GMT
Wilko has plenty of good games and is the best right back at the club. He's the only player we have who actually knows how to play as an honest to goodness full back for starters. A long way from perfect, and an injury worry, but definitely part of our best back four. He may be our best right back when he plays well, but the fact remains we need better. It was a huge disappointment, that we didn't resolve this issue in January and it needs to be addressed in this window. Unless of course this new kiddie is 'good enough' to be another exception! How many other PL teams would Wilko get picked for? I reckon he'd get into a fair few bottom half teams. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 8, 2012 9:42:05 GMT
He may be our best right back when he plays well, but the fact remains we need better. It was a huge disappointment, that we didn't resolve this issue in January and it needs to be addressed in this window. Unless of course this new kiddie is 'good enough' to be another exception! How many other PL teams would Wilko get picked for? I reckon he'd get into a fair few bottom half teams. Comfortably. He's a limited player in an attacking sense and he is liable to get torn apart away from home against intelligent and pacy players......but..... .....in general he has proven to be a very solid PL full back who does the simple things well and brings a level of aggression that often drives more talented players back into their shells. Fair play to him. One of our success stories without question. |
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