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Post by supersmashinggreat on May 28, 2012 19:15:31 GMT
If you can just copy and paste the below, it will be good i am so sorry to mess you about.. I've just seen a sign go up in a Restaurant saying "All of our meat is now Halal" I took issue with this and went to ask the Chef about it as i find it a wrong for a number of reasons, However , what really annoys me is that people will now have a choice of halal meat or nothing on some days... why should English people have to eat halal meat? The manager said they have received a number of complaints from the staff and since they serve halal meats at other restaurants ,then it makes sense to put it in this restaurant, and cuts costs. Staff have also complained about pork being next to beef or lamb.. I really do not agree about the way animals are slaughtered for halal meat. Am i wrong or just making a fuss? Please no veggies need give there input, just normal people. Am i wrong?
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Post by pittshillplotter on May 28, 2012 19:29:46 GMT
My deepest sympathies son , but in Great Britain 2012 , you haven't got a leg to stand on. This is all to do with bigger issues .....religion etc. We live in a world that is warped...very warped and so are the values. Halal meat should be made illegal , no ifs or buts , and if those who eat it don't like it , then they should go elsewhere...!
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Post by andychk on May 28, 2012 19:42:05 GMT
My deepest sympathies son , but in Great Britain 2012 , you haven't got a leg to stand on. This is all to do with bigger issues .....religion etc. We live in a world that is warped...very warped and so are the values. Halal meat should be made illegal , no ifs or buts , and if those who eat it don't like it , then they should go elsewhere...! Couldn't agree more mate, its the Britain we live in though the scared PC brigade.
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Post by stillgame4it on May 28, 2012 20:09:26 GMT
Sounds like the "guests" are also getting Halal meat whether they like it or not (or know about it)? I think you are quite right to be pissed off! It is not, and never has been, part of the British culture so why should you have it rammed down your throat (so to speak...)?
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Post by potterglen on May 28, 2012 20:10:47 GMT
But the animal had a prayer said over it as it had its throat cut and bled to death so its okay. I'd be right there with you, makes my blood boil.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 28, 2012 20:15:03 GMT
Just have the pork or bacon! ;D
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Post by swampySCFC on May 28, 2012 22:14:38 GMT
Fucking muslim culture again mate Im afraid
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2012 23:05:07 GMT
Our place of work have just put a sign up in the staff restaurant saying "All of our meat is now Halal" I took issue with this and went to the Chef & his boss as i find it a disgrace for a number of reasons, the obvious being we serve full english breakfasts in there for a start, they were a bit taken aback with this as the sign is firmly stuck to the wall now. Idiots!!! However , what really annoys me is that i will now have a choice of halal meat or nothing on some days... why should i as an Englishman have to eat halal meat? The manager said they have received a number of complaints from the staff and since they serve halal meats to guests then it makes sense to put it in the staff restaurant, and cuts costs. Staff have also complained about pork being next to beef or lamb.. I really do not agree about the way animals are slaughtered for halal meat. Am i wrong or just making a fuss? Please no veggies need give there input, just normal people. Am i wrong? No you are dead right mate
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Post by icklestokie on May 29, 2012 1:56:33 GMT
Noticed that the new Subway at Hanford roundabout has Halal meat - wont be eating there.
I like to think that the poor bugger i'm eating at least died quickly - not bled to death.
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Post by st3mark on May 29, 2012 6:02:00 GMT
I too found this very offensive, i'm not a veggie but i do want my animals to die quickly rather than being strung upside down and bled out from the throat.
I saw the halal only sign in kfc, i was horrified and i'm not exaggerating, i was genuinely gutted and thus pissed off.
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Post by santy on May 29, 2012 6:40:35 GMT
Slit throats, the notoriously slow way to die. Up there with protracted bouts of cancer, aids and old age as some of the slowest ways to die. I think the estimation for a person to die if you slit their throat is something around 30 seconds because of the two thick arteries in the neck would let out most of your blood fairly quickly due to how much blood flows through them.
For a long time and in a lot of places the common practice with chickens has been to snap their necks and just wait for them to die. This process could take several minutes because chickens don't actually need their brains to survive, so long as enough of the spinal cord is intact at the top they can keep running around for a while.
Just as you disagree with the way halal meat is obtained there are just as many who disagree with the way in which the bolt through the brain practice is used as well. Some even go as far as arguing it is more flawed than the halal way because of the fact it can cause more distress and the manner in which animals are kept before they're going in to be killed.
End of the day its a simple as this: Because of your tastes and desires for certain types of foods in life an animal has been raised with the soul purpose of being killed to end up on your plate. The entire batch of years its life encompasses is just for that purpose. The conditions are usually relatively poor and the animal never lives a natural life.
If you don't care about how it lived, why do you care about how it dies? Personally, I don't care in the slightest, for me its a bigger concern what pair of socks to put on this morning.
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Post by st3mark on May 29, 2012 6:45:49 GMT
Slit throats, the notoriously slow way to die. Up there with protracted bouts of cancer, aids and old age as some of the slowest ways to die. I think the estimation for a person to die if you slit their throat is something around 30 seconds because of the two thick arteries in the neck would let out most of your blood fairly quickly due to how much blood flows through them. For a long time and in a lot of places the common practice with chickens has been to snap their necks and just wait for them to die. This process could take several minutes because chickens don't actually need their brains to survive, so long as enough of the spinal cord is intact at the top they can keep running around for a while. Just as you disagree with the way halal meat is obtained there are just as many who disagree with the way in which the bolt through the brain practice is used as well. Some even go as far as arguing it is more flawed than the halal way because of the fact it can cause more distress and the manner in which animals are kept before they're going in to be killed. End of the day its a simple as this: Because of your tastes and desires for certain types of foods in life an animal has been raised with the soul purpose of being killed to end up on your plate. The entire batch of years its life encompasses is just for that purpose. The conditions are usually relatively poor and the animal never lives a natural life. If you don't care about how it lived, why do you care about how it dies? Personally, I don't care in the slightest, for me its a bigger concern what pair of socks to put on this morning. I feel loads better now. Not. The length of time is not really an issue for me, its the disrespect to the animal and how barbaric it is. But because i'm a young, straight, white, male, christian i am not aloud to contest the ethics of halal meat or anything else either.
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Post by santy on May 29, 2012 6:56:13 GMT
How barbaric is it that your personal tastes contribute to a system that condemns an animal to a pitiable existence of being bred purely for its own death? Surely that is just as barbaric and disrespectful?
Also, just to point out, as of yet you haven't actually contested anything on any meaningful level with any facts or evidence to show which way is actually better or enlighten anyone else to why you think what you think.
I'm also young, straight, white and male - not a Christian admittedly but I somehow managed to contest the ethics of not just halal meat - but all meat. Funnily enough whilst eating a sausage sandwich.
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Post by denman on May 29, 2012 8:42:16 GMT
Don't care how its killed as long as I get a lovely steak.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 10:22:07 GMT
to be fair it doesn't really make much difference. the vast majority of animals killed by Halal methods are actually unconscious when they "Bleed out" anyway due to the incredibly quick reduction in blood pressure that occurs from slitting the carotid artery.
those killed in the "traditional" way (in terms of us Westerners) use bolts etc. but these do not kill the animal; merely render them unconscious so they too can be bled out (in fact animals that die instantaneously because of the bolt are rejected for use as meat products as the bleed is the only way to guarantee lack of bacterial infection that can occur after the animal is already dead from a bolt.
electrocution to stun the animal is also very contentious (although i don't see many on here arguing against that) as there is evidence to show that electrocution to the animal is extremely painful and DOES NOT induce unconsciousness at all, merely induces paralysis of the limbs so the animal is not able to exhibit the symptoms of being in pain.
in short there really isn't much difference between the methods. i appreciate that people can say "That's just what Muslims want you to think" because there is a massive anti-muslim and everything their faith entails bandwagon nowadays but it is just as relevant and just as likely that people prefer our more "Acceptable" methods purely because of the way it has been portrayed to us in order to make us accept it (why people fail to see this genuinely staggers me - believe everything they are told that is bad about one culture purely based on what our culture tells us to believe, therefore we are right and they are wrong - pathetically unbalanced viewpoint which doesn't take into account any facts and is just based on what people are told by the media in their own society)
but hey, let's ignore the actual proven facts and just presume us Brits are right about everything and anything those weird Middle Eastern people do is always far more barbaric and terrible than anything we do.....sad really that the Daily Mail is obviously so well received by members of the general public
(From a white, young-ish, straight, non-christian person who prefers to base opinions on facts from both sides of the story rather than a knee-jerk reaction which is based more on personal opinions about that particular faith and then throwing my arms up at anything and everything foreigners do and labelling them as barbaric and sick when the proven facts show our methods are actually no more humane anyway!)
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Post by Funky on May 29, 2012 11:37:25 GMT
Its the animals fault, they shouldn't be made of meat.
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Post by Pricey on May 29, 2012 12:28:28 GMT
The main thrust of the anti-Halal stance on this thread seems to be based on animal rights. Crazy.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 12:39:28 GMT
i think the main thrust of the thread is that some people automatically presume EVERYTHING that Muslims do/are involved in is wrong,barbaric and evil and therefore these people subscribe to the George W.Bush edict that only us educated Westerners really know how to live life properly
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Post by mermaidsal on May 29, 2012 13:19:38 GMT
One of my bugbears... no probs at all about Halal and kosher being in the mainstream, so they should be but I want the choice please - just as Halal and kosher eaters are entitled to the choice too.
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Post by mistersausage on May 29, 2012 14:07:22 GMT
One of my bugbears... no probs at all about Halal and kosher being in the mainstream, so they should be but I want the choice please - just as Halal and kosher eaters are entitled to the choice too. This.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 29, 2012 14:13:34 GMT
My deepest sympathies son , but in Great Britain 2012 , you haven't got a leg to stand on. This is all to do with bigger issues .....religion etc. We live in a world that is warped...very warped and so are the values. Halal meat should be made illegal , no ifs or buts , and if those who eat it don't like it , then they should go elsewhere...! +1, I fear for the children of tomorrow. They will soon be a minority in their own country...if you can even say this is our country anymore.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 14:26:59 GMT
One of my bugbears... no probs at all about Halal and kosher being in the mainstream, so they should be but I want the choice please - just as Halal and kosher eaters are entitled to the choice too. couldn't agree more...i do however think it's madness that people are worried about cruelty in the method of killing but no-one seems too bothered about the conditions animals are kept in for long periods up until they take "The long walk"...that seems to be just swept under the carpet
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Post by st3mark on May 29, 2012 14:37:37 GMT
How barbaric is it that your personal tastes contribute to a system that condemns an animal to a pitiable existence of being bred purely for its own death? Surely that is just as barbaric and disrespectful? Also, just to point out, as of yet you haven't actually contested anything on any meaningful level with any facts or evidence to show which way is actually better or enlighten anyone else to why you think what you think. I'm also young, straight, white and male - not a Christian admittedly but I somehow managed to contest the ethics of not just halal meat - but all meat. Funnily enough whilst eating a sausage sandwich. Sorry for the late reply i've been at work. Firstly in reference to your earlier suggestion that having your throat slit will take 30 seconds to die: In 2003, the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), an independent advisory group, concluded that the way halal and kosher meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and should be banned immediately. FAWC argued that cattle required up to two minutes to bleed to death when such means are employed." You said this morning that i hadn't given any facts or evidence as to say which way is better, i'm sorry i didn't realise i had to provide facts or evidence to have an opinion. I did however realise that although you dressed your post up nicely you also didn't provide any FACTS or EVIDENCE. As i already said it's not the length of time that bothers me, it's the method of it. If i was murdered in that way i would consider it a degrading way to die as opposed to a bolt gun for example. Also as a Christian, i don't like the idea of having prayers from other religions said over food i have to eat. The choice should be there. I get the impression from your posts that because you aren't offended by the idea of halal meat that i am wrong to be offended, and need to prove my opinion right with 'evidence'. When in reality i can have my opinion without providing reasons and can simply just say that as a Christian i find it offensive to have meat killed in that way as my only option at any eatery. I'll try and check back on this later, i'm not exactly a prolific poster i'm afraid.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 14:43:16 GMT
st3mark------ the bolt gun doesn't kill any animals it stuns them, they then are also "Bled out" over here in the West as well
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Post by seasidestokie on May 29, 2012 15:22:48 GMT
One of my bugbears... no probs at all about Halal and kosher being in the mainstream, so they should be but I want the choice please - just as Halal and kosher eaters are entitled to the choice too. couldn't agree more...i do however think it's madness that people are worried about cruelty in the method of killing but no-one seems too bothered about the conditions animals are kept in for long periods up until they take "The long walk"...that seems to be just swept under the carpet I saw a TV film sometime back of cattle being unloaded from a ship in some middle eastern muslim country... the cattle were being forced to 'leap' into open trucks from the ship (not sure of the height) many of the cattle had broken limbs and were just left in the trucks ready to be delivered to their final place of death... and you say no one cares about the conditions they are kept in... those muslims certainly didn't... and that wouldn't happen in this country. The filming was done by some animal welfare group who didn't want this country to export cattle to such countries... I wish I could remember more, someone else maybe?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 16:01:23 GMT
couldn't agree more...i do however think it's madness that people are worried about cruelty in the method of killing but no-one seems too bothered about the conditions animals are kept in for long periods up until they take "The long walk"...that seems to be just swept under the carpet I saw a TV film sometime back of cattle being unloaded from a ship in some middle eastern muslim country... the cattle were being forced to 'leap' into open trucks from the ship (not sure of the height) many of the cattle had broken limbs and were just left in the trucks ready to be delivered to their final place of death... and you say no one cares about the conditions they are kept in... those muslims certainly didn't... and that wouldn't happen in this country. The filming was done by some animal welfare group who didn't want this country to export cattle to such countries... I wish I could remember more, someone else maybe? i think you'll find that abattoirs in this country aren't exactly five star either mate; cattle get driven from their "Pens" they've basically been confined in for months on end with no space to move around in through metal corridors which are just about the width of the animal, they then get a bolt through the skull (and if this doesn't render them unconscious they have people on standby with mallets to manually crack their skulls and damage the brain tissue in order to render them unconscious) they then also have their throats cut in order to let them bleed out.....so when you see "That wouldn't happen in this country" i think you may want to do a little research! why do people seem to think that over here us "Cultured and civilised" people give them an overnight stay at the Hilton followed by a drive through their idyllic countryside manor grounds in an Aston Martin and then when they get to the abattoir then settle down for a nice cup of tea, have an IV drip that sends them into a nice fluffy dream about rabbits before we delicately put them to sleep....naivity ahoy chaps!!!!
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Post by magicmanfuller on May 29, 2012 16:21:32 GMT
I saw a TV film sometime back of cattle being unloaded from a ship in some middle eastern muslim country... the cattle were being forced to 'leap' into open trucks from the ship (not sure of the height) many of the cattle had broken limbs and were just left in the trucks ready to be delivered to their final place of death... and you say no one cares about the conditions they are kept in... those muslims certainly didn't... and that wouldn't happen in this country. The filming was done by some animal welfare group who didn't want this country to export cattle to such countries... I wish I could remember more, someone else maybe? i think you'll find that abattoirs in this country aren't exactly five star either mate; cattle get driven from their "Pens" they've basically been confined in for months on end with no space to move around in through metal corridors which are just about the width of the animal, they then get a bolt through the skull (and if this doesn't render them unconscious they have people on standby with mallets to manually crack their skulls and damage the brain tissue in order to render them unconscious) they then also have their throats cut in order to let them bleed out.....so when you see "That wouldn't happen in this country" i think you may want to do a little research! why do people seem to think that over here us "Cultured and civilised" people give them an overnight stay at the Hilton followed by a drive through their idyllic countryside manor grounds in an Aston Martin and then when they get to the abattoir then settle down for a nice cup of tea, have an IV drip that sends them into a nice fluffy dream about rabbits before we delicately put them to sleep....naivity ahoy chaps!!!! Your trying to defend the undefendable mate. A more humane way to die? A) A bolt through your head, B) being slit through the throat (not an easy thing to do which can go wrong leading to an even more horrific death much unlike a bolt to the head) and being literally bled to death. Do you work for the BBC?
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Post by redwhite on May 29, 2012 16:32:20 GMT
couldn't agree more...i do however think it's madness that people are worried about cruelty in the method of killing but no-one seems too bothered about the conditions animals are kept in for long periods up until they take "The long walk"...that seems to be just swept under the carpet I saw a TV film sometime back of cattle being unloaded from a ship in some middle eastern muslim country... the cattle were being forced to 'leap' into open trucks from the ship (not sure of the height) many of the cattle had broken limbs and were just left in the trucks ready to be delivered to their final place of death... and you say no one cares about the conditions they are kept in... those muslims certainly didn't... and that wouldn't happen in this country. The filming was done by some animal welfare group who didn't want this country to export cattle to such countries... I wish I could remember more, someone else maybe? Wouldn't happen in this country? www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/oct/07/animal-welfare-abuse-slaughterhouse
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Post by redwhite on May 29, 2012 16:35:17 GMT
to be fair it doesn't really make much difference. the vast majority of animals killed by Halal methods are actually unconscious when they "Bleed out" anyway due to the incredibly quick reduction in blood pressure that occurs from slitting the carotid artery. those killed in the "traditional" way (in terms of us Westerners) use bolts etc. but these do not kill the animal; merely render them unconscious so they too can be bled out (in fact animals that die instantaneously because of the bolt are rejected for use as meat products as the bleed is the only way to guarantee lack of bacterial infection that can occur after the animal is already dead from a bolt. electrocution to stun the animal is also very contentious (although i don't see many on here arguing against that) as there is evidence to show that electrocution to the animal is extremely painful and DOES NOT induce unconsciousness at all, merely induces paralysis of the limbs so the animal is not able to exhibit the symptoms of being in pain. in short there really isn't much difference between the methods. i appreciate that people can say "That's just what Muslims want you to think" because there is a massive anti-muslim and everything their faith entails bandwagon nowadays but it is just as relevant and just as likely that people prefer our more "Acceptable" methods purely because of the way it has been portrayed to us in order to make us accept it (why people fail to see this genuinely staggers me - believe everything they are told that is bad about one culture purely based on what our culture tells us to believe, therefore we are right and they are wrong - pathetically unbalanced viewpoint which doesn't take into account any facts and is just based on what people are told by the media in their own society) but hey, let's ignore the actual proven facts and just presume us Brits are right about everything and anything those weird Middle Eastern people do is always far more barbaric and terrible than anything we do.....sad really that the Daily Mail is obviously so well received by members of the general public (From a white, young-ish, straight, non-christian person who prefers to base opinions on facts from both sides of the story rather than a knee-jerk reaction which is based more on personal opinions about that particular faith and then throwing my arms up at anything and everything foreigners do and labelling them as barbaric and sick when the proven facts show our methods are actually no more humane anyway!) Finally we have a sane person on this board! I was starting to think everyone on here had the same "well if they want to follow their religion they can get out of our country" nonsense.
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Post by redwhite on May 29, 2012 16:39:46 GMT
I too found this very offensive, i'm not a veggie but i do want my animals to die quickly rather than being strung upside down and bled out from the throat. I saw the halal only sign in kfc, i was horrified and i'm not exaggerating, i was genuinely gutted and thus pissed off. As long as you're sure chickens used for kfc die quickly...
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