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Post by Gods on Apr 6, 2012 15:12:59 GMT
Must admit I have never bought this "Everton don't have 2 coins to rub together" story.
They have been at this Premier League thing with all its riches since its inception 20 years ago and in whatever has constituted the top flight of English football for the thick end of 60 years.
They also have 35,000 loyal fans who pay at the gate every week.
My guess is their wage bill is well up with nearly all the clubs outside of the so called Top 6.
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 15:17:38 GMT
I don't buy that 'large contingent of Everton fans don't like Moyes' argument either. One thread off their forum is hardly conclusive evidence.
I can see Everton qualifying for the Europa League via the Prem this season, and based on their expenditure that's pretty decent TBH.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 16:50:21 GMT
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 16:54:06 GMT
Eerie that someone spends so much of their time looking up news on other teams yes.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 16:55:44 GMT
Eerie that someone spends so much of their time looking up news on other teams yes. If you don't know that there is a significant amount of animosity surrounding Moyes at Everton then you don't follow football that closely.
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 16:57:00 GMT
Eerie that someone spends so much of their time looking up news on other teams yes. If you don't know that there is a significant amount of animosity surrounding Moyes at Everton then you don't follow football that closely. I will admit that I don't follow Everton that closely. However, it is the general consensus of most people that follow football that he is a very good manager.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 16:59:25 GMT
If you don't know that there is a significant amount of animosity surrounding Moyes at Everton then you don't follow football that closely. I will admit that I don't follow Everton that closely. However, it is the general consensus of most people that follow football that he is a very good manager. I think he is too. As is Tony Pulis.
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 17:03:34 GMT
I will admit that I don't follow Everton that closely. However, it is the general consensus of most people that follow football that he is a very good manager. I think he is too. As is Tony Pulis. I think there's probably more Stoke fans disillusioned with Pulis than Everton fans with Moyes though - based on this forum. Anyway, how did we even end up on this discussion? Moyes coming here isn't going to happen and this is supposed to be about the Academy.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 6, 2012 17:25:46 GMT
I figured TP wouldn't be enamored with the plans but he sounds just plain bitter about it all. It's made me feel vindicated with my views mind, not that I needed that!
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Post by Stoke70 on Apr 6, 2012 17:32:23 GMT
momo is a Everton specialist but it's a Stoke forum here
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 6, 2012 17:47:33 GMT
"Peter Peter look at me look at me. I need the 6million to spend on aging pro's and not secure the future of Stoke City..."
The very fact he gave the interview tells you all you need to know about his attitude.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 6, 2012 17:49:01 GMT
I figured TP wouldn't be enamored with the plans but he sounds just plain bitter about it all. It's made me feel vindicated with my views mind, not that I needed that! Agree with this - need proper coaches in the Academy and not the old school players as much as I like them. Delap and Higgy dont even have their coaching badges
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Post by elystokie on Apr 6, 2012 17:50:38 GMT
Wonder what the dissenting Everton fans would say if they were faced with TP as a direct replacement? Stick?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 6, 2012 17:51:52 GMT
I figured TP wouldn't be enamored with the plans but he sounds just plain bitter about it all. It's made me feel vindicated with my views mind, not that I needed that! Agree with this - need proper coaches in the Academy and not the old school players as much as I like them. Delap and Higgy dont even have their coaching badges Totally agree, I was just saying this on Twatter! We need top class youth coaches to match the top class (hopefully) academy. In time they might be but for now we need guaranteed quality coaches.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 6, 2012 18:55:46 GMT
Agree with this - need proper coaches in the Academy and not the old school players as much as I like them. Delap and Higgy dont even have their coaching badges Totally agree, I was just saying this on Twatter! We need top class youth coaches to match the top class (hopefully) academy. In time they might be but for now we need guaranteed quality coaches. I think a combination of both would be ideal, wouldn't it? Get some top class youth coaches running the show with some of our older figureheads learning underneath them.
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Post by knype on Apr 6, 2012 19:05:07 GMT
If I was PC I would be calling TP in and asking him to explain his comments and make him realize where PC had got his money from and what it means to him and why he wants the Academy to succeed. TP surely must realize that what PC is building is for years to come when he has long gone and these massive steps now will ensure that we can cherry pick all of the local talent and not risk losing the better local players to the bigger clubs. Very very short sighted view TP but I am not surprised by it.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 6, 2012 20:14:57 GMT
"Peter Peter look at me look at me. I need the 6million to spend on aging pro's and not secure the future of Stoke City..." The very fact he gave the interview tells you all you need to know about his attitude. It'll be one of the stories from the Thursday press conference, won't it?
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Post by stokie25 on Apr 6, 2012 20:19:00 GMT
As i've previously said, keep Pulis a hundred miles away from this project. By the time we can reap rewards from it, he'll be long gone and shouldn't have any influence upon it whatsoever! Coates hasn't become a multi millionaire listening to the likes of 'ducking n diving' Pulis.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 6, 2012 20:20:32 GMT
As i've previously said, keep Pulis a hundred miles away from this project. By the time we can reap rewards from it, he'll be long gone and shouldn't have any influence upon it whatsoever! Coates hasn't become a multi millionaire listening to the likes of 'ducking n diving' Pulis. So why employ a manager (virtually twice when you think about it) that doesn't share your ethos on the very project you are openly pouring millions into? Is Peter Coates a bit dense by default?
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Post by knype on Apr 6, 2012 20:24:36 GMT
As i've previously said, keep Pulis a hundred miles away from this project. By the time we can reap rewards from it, he'll be long gone and shouldn't have any influence upon it whatsoever! Coates hasn't become a multi millionaire listening to the likes of 'ducking n diving' Pulis. So why employ a manager (virtually twice when you think about it) that doesn't share your ethos on the very project you are openly pouring millions into? Is Peter Coates a bit dense by default? Short term and income wise TP has got PC what he always wanted initially by default but since the Prem years in his own right, to sustain us where we are we need to build from within.....This is where TP will fall down.
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Post by stokie25 on Apr 6, 2012 20:24:39 GMT
As i've previously said, keep Pulis a hundred miles away from this project. By the time we can reap rewards from it, he'll be long gone and shouldn't have any influence upon it whatsoever! Coates hasn't become a multi millionaire listening to the likes of 'ducking n diving' Pulis. So why employ a manager (virtually twice when you think about it) that doesn't share your ethos on the very project you are openly pouring millions into? Is Peter Coates a bit dense by default? The league and the future nuturing of young talent are poles apart within SCFC. Coates isn't daft and realises that pumping millions into the club every year on players in the Autumn of their career is very folly. I suggest that pulis doesn't agree....so tough...i'm with Coatsey on this one
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Post by march4 on Apr 6, 2012 20:38:04 GMT
So why employ a manager (virtually twice when you think about it) that doesn't share your ethos on the very project you are openly pouring millions into? Is Peter Coates a bit dense by default? The league and the future nuturing of young talent are poles apart within SCFC. Coates isn't daft and realises that pumping millions into the club every year on players in the Autumn of their career is very folly. I suggest that pulis doesn't agree....so tough...i'm with Coatsey on this one Why do you suggest that? Where is your evidence?
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 6, 2012 20:38:56 GMT
So why employ a manager (virtually twice when you think about it) that doesn't share your ethos on the very project you are openly pouring millions into? Is Peter Coates a bit dense by default? Short term and income wise TP has got PC what he always wanted initially by default but since the Prem years in his own right, to sustain us where we are we need to build from within.....This is where TP will fall down. Based on what evidence? So far, all of the young lads that have come through under Pulis have virtually failed elsewhere - with the exception of Karl Henry - who has plateaued with us at Wolves. That to me tells me the manager saw they weren't good enough in his opinion and that releasing them or selling them was the right thing to do at the time, and also the future. The amount of lads he has let go or sold really should tell you that. There are far too many to be classed as "lucky" on either side of the argument. Had we had a long line of lads that he had tossed aside, only for them to go on to bigger and better things, then i'd agree that there was something wrong with his vision of young players at this club. Right now, i'm asking bigger and more pertinent questions of the scouting and coaching system at the Academy, rather than that of the bloke in the first team dugout. The fact we are loaning out lads like Marshall, Shotton and Cuvelier to League One clubs to start with tells you the coaching isn't quite right. The fact that so few are coming through should tell you the Scouting isn't quite right either. I suspect you, and many others, won't agree but there you go.
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Post by knype on Apr 6, 2012 20:42:35 GMT
Short term and income wise TP has got PC what he always wanted initially by default but since the Prem years in his own right, to sustain us where we are we need to build from within.....This is where TP will fall down. Based on what evidence? So far, all of the young lads that have come through under Pulis have virtually failed elsewhere - with the exception of Karl Henry - who has plateaued with us at Wolves. That to me tells me the manager saw they weren't good enough in his opinion and that releasing them or selling them was the right thing to do at the time, and also the future. The amount of lads he has let go or sold really should tell you that. There are far too many to be classed as "lucky" on either side of the argument. Had we had a long line of lads that he had tossed aside, only for them to go on to bigger and better things, then i'd agree that there was something wrong with his vision of young players at this club. Right now, i'm asking bigger and more pertinent questions of the scouting and coaching system at the Academy, rather than that of the bloke in the first team dugout. The fact we are loaning out lads like Marshall, Shotton and Cuvelier to League One clubs to start with tells you the coaching isn't quite right. The fact that so few are coming through should tell you the Scouting isn't quite right either. I suspect you, and many others, won't agree but there you go. Agree up to a point but whose friends do the scouting and run the Academy?
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Post by stokie25 on Apr 6, 2012 20:43:53 GMT
I suggest that, March, on the inference that Tone isn't wholly supportive of the venture (although he's obliged to be by the club) on reading his interviews on the matter. I am in no position to provide evidence because the club, even Tone, are quite careful how they allow the press to interpret their comments. Needless to say, we'll see how committed TP is to the 6m investment of the academy and his conviction to bringing in young players by the start of next season when Coates won't give him another 20 million and the spoilt child comes out in him...again
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 6, 2012 20:54:17 GMT
Based on what evidence? So far, all of the young lads that have come through under Pulis have virtually failed elsewhere - with the exception of Karl Henry - who has plateaued with us at Wolves. That to me tells me the manager saw they weren't good enough in his opinion and that releasing them or selling them was the right thing to do at the time, and also the future. The amount of lads he has let go or sold really should tell you that. There are far too many to be classed as "lucky" on either side of the argument. Had we had a long line of lads that he had tossed aside, only for them to go on to bigger and better things, then i'd agree that there was something wrong with his vision of young players at this club. Right now, i'm asking bigger and more pertinent questions of the scouting and coaching system at the Academy, rather than that of the bloke in the first team dugout. The fact we are loaning out lads like Marshall, Shotton and Cuvelier to League One clubs to start with tells you the coaching isn't quite right. The fact that so few are coming through should tell you the Scouting isn't quite right either. I suspect you, and many others, won't agree but there you go. Agree up to a point but whose friends do the scouting and run the Academy? David Wright runs it, Dave Kevan is the head coach. To my mind, Wright has no previous affinity to Pulis and Kevan has been sacked by him once. Scouting I wouldn't know about other than I don't think it's very bloody good on any level. Either or on this one knype, and if you want to go down the line of bashing the manager then fair enough. I just point you back in the direction of the Chairman who is punting millions into the project. Either he is happy with Pulis' stance on this one or he's not.
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Post by knype on Apr 6, 2012 20:56:32 GMT
Agree up to a point but whose friends do the scouting and run the Academy? David Wright runs it, Dave Kevan is the head coach. To my mind, Wright has no previous affinity to Pulis and Kevan has been sacked by him once. Scouting I wouldn't know about other than I don't think it's very bloody good on any level. Either or on this one knype, and if you want to go down the line of bashing the manager then fair enough. I just point you back in the direction of the Chairman who is punting millions into the project. Either he is happy with Pulis' stance on this one or he's not. He is obviously happy with the gain from what TP has bought him, PC is trying to set a future whereby hopefully his family do not have keep chucking in 20-30 million for Premiership and shite bland football!
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 6, 2012 21:03:56 GMT
David Wright runs it, Dave Kevan is the head coach. To my mind, Wright has no previous affinity to Pulis and Kevan has been sacked by him once. Scouting I wouldn't know about other than I don't think it's very bloody good on any level. Either or on this one knype, and if you want to go down the line of bashing the manager then fair enough. I just point you back in the direction of the Chairman who is punting millions into the project. Either he is happy with Pulis' stance on this one or he's not. He is obviously happy with the gain from what TP has bought him, PC is trying to set a future whereby hopefully his family do not have keep chucking in 20-30 million for Premiership and shite bland football! So the fact that the manager is still in position, and that he is pumping millions into the system tells me by absolute default, that his close friend and ex Bury and Sheffield United Chairman Terry Robinson has told him his major problems are with parts other than the bloke in the first team dugout! If Peter Coates was so hell bent on being self sufficient, and he had people whom he trusted implicitly in place telling him he had oodles of quality coming through the ranks and that they were all being stunted by the bloke in the dugout then i'd expect Pulis to have disappeared a long time ago.
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Post by knype on Apr 6, 2012 21:06:39 GMT
SSV, why when the current riches of the Prem far outweigh the advantages of a well run Academy?
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 6, 2012 21:07:50 GMT
Agree up to a point but whose friends do the scouting and run the Academy? David Wright runs it, Dave Kevan is the head coach. To my mind, Wright has no previous affinity to Pulis and Kevan has been sacked by him once. The part you missed (and I understand what it looks like from a distance) is that Pulis then strangles it. I have sat in rooms with people from Pulis down discussing matters academy and I can tell you that nothing happens without his hand in it where it really matters. Ninety percent of it he cannot be bothered with. He ignores his coaches recommendations and acts on the basis you wouldnt or could not credit. The suggestions that it should be seperate from Pulis are understandable but in term sof how he has set up the football management at the club and in terms of reality it will not and cannot be. However when it is fact that I have seen Sir Alex Ferguson at more Stoke Academy matches than Tony Pulis it tells a story. Not interested except in a suppressive manner.
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