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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 13:51:39 GMT
I don't think any Premier League manager should have a say in the academy. Long termers like Ferguson, Moyes and Pulis are the exception not the norm. The average lifespan of a manager is not conducive to working with a massive academy budget, which like it, or like or not, drain resource from the first team.
Rooney's which pay for 10 years of youth development are few amd far between and would have come through under the old scheme anyway. Perhaps though Everton would have received 150k not 30 million which surely no one can defend.
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 6, 2012 13:52:20 GMT
Mr Puils seems to think he has some sort of control at the club. I remember him saying he only wanted a very basic training ground and nothing fancy, it's a good job Peter doesn't allow Tony to control everything because 10 years from now it won't matter what Tony did and didn't want at the time. Good for you Peter If it was left to TP our training centre in 10 years time would consist of 30 ft high volley ball nets and a bleepometer.
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Post by knowingeye on Apr 6, 2012 13:52:33 GMT
I know a lot of people were concerned when Tony Pulis, under the Icelanders, wanted to withdraw all the Academy funding for his own management use for the first team.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 13:53:21 GMT
I don't think any Premier League manager should have a say in the academy. Long termers like Ferguson, Moyes and Pulis are the exception not the norm. The average lifespan of a manager is not conducive to working with a massive academy budget, which like it, or like or not, drain resource from the first team.
Rooney's which pay for 10 years of youth development are few amd far between and would have come through under the old scheme anyway. Perhaps though Everton would have received 150k not 30 million which surely no one can defend.
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Post by oasis on Apr 6, 2012 13:53:41 GMT
Just hinting that he needs funding in the summer, which is true.
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Post by french toast on Apr 6, 2012 13:54:48 GMT
there is no standing still in football, if you try you end up going backwards. No standing still? He's just bought Palacios for £8Million, loaned Arismendi out, sold a cabale 3rd winger in Marshall for Peanuts, has a cabale midfielder at left back and this season has played Rory, Salif, Whealan and Whitehead there instead. If that isn't standing still I don't know what is. marshall refused to sign a new contract, you have obviously got beef with our manager, and its clearly clouding your judgement, either that or you need to learn to understand football in its full entirety
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Post by french toast on Apr 6, 2012 13:57:10 GMT
I know a lot of people were concerned when Tony Pulis, under the Icelanders, wanted to withdraw all the Academy funding for his own management use for the first team. come on, that is clearly a different situation, we needed money to stay up, no players were coming throuh our dire set up, anyone in his position would do the same its the complete opposite now
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 13:57:28 GMT
Just hinting that he needs funding in the summer, which is true. He can get that through selling deadwood and KJ. I'd be happy for PC to invest in the 'club' and make Pulis work harder for his budget by not sticking to players with little or no resale value.
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 6, 2012 13:58:30 GMT
No standing still? He's just bought Palacios for £8Million, loaned Arismendi out, sold a cabale 3rd winger in Marshall for Peanuts, has a cabale midfielder at left back and this season has played Rory, Salif, Whealan and Whitehead there instead. If that isn't standing still I don't know what is. marshall refused to sign a new contract, you have obviously got beef with our manager, and its clearly clouding your judgement, either that or you need to learn to understand football in its full entirety More than likey because he knew he was pissing in the wind at Stoke, he couldn't even get a substitue appeaernce ahead of strikers and midfielders on the wing. Why else would you leave a Premiership club. Cuvelier will be next, Arismendi too well we pay over the odds for established Premier League nobodies. I have good reasons to have beef with the manager.
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 13:59:36 GMT
I know a lot of people were concerned when Tony Pulis, under the Icelanders, wanted to withdraw all the Academy funding for his own management use for the first team. come on, that is clearly a different situation, we needed money to stay up, no players were coming throuh our dire set up, anyone in his position would do the same its the complete opposite now What was that thing a year or two ago where Pulis withdrew our youth team (or reserve team?) from the national league? Didn't he say it was to stop players getting injured? Not sure, but didn't he say something once about not wanting a youth team system at all?
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 6, 2012 14:01:45 GMT
Just hinting that he needs funding in the summer, which is true. In defence, midfield and attack. Infact all the areas apart from Goalkeeper, this is despite near £90Million and 8 transfer windows, TP is a lucky man, someone like David Moyes would work wonders with the funds he has wasted
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Post by french toast on Apr 6, 2012 14:02:31 GMT
marshall refused to sign a new contract, you have obviously got beef with our manager, and its clearly clouding your judgement, either that or you need to learn to understand football in its full entirety More than likey because he knew he was pissing in the wind at Stoke, he couldn't even get a substitue appeaernce ahead of strikers and midfielders on the wing. Why else would you leave a Premiership club. Cuvelier will be next, Arismendi too well we pay over the odds for established Premier League nobodies. I have good reasons to have beef with the manager. when you're at a premiership club you need to wait for your chance, fair play to marshall, i think its good that he stepped down to get more games, shows the lad has determination, i wish him all the best. we are never going to agree, so perhaps its time to end our debate, bye
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 14:03:28 GMT
Just hinting that he needs funding in the summer, which is true. In defence, midfield and attack. Infact all the areas apart from Goalkeeper, this is despite near £90Million and 8 transfer windows, TP is a lucky man, someone like David Moyes would work wonders with the funds he has wastedThat's why DM earns loads more than Pulis.
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 6, 2012 14:05:35 GMT
If Coates told Pulis there is no funds unless he sells to buy, Pulis would delibertaly play Binary football such is the stubborness of the man.
He wouldn't need funds if he hadn't wasted it.
I'm logging off now, I've got Pulisitis its a pitty some can't see what is exactly in front of there eyes.
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Post by knowingeye on Apr 6, 2012 14:07:01 GMT
I know a lot of people were concerned when Tony Pulis, under the Icelanders, wanted to withdraw all the Academy funding for his own management use for the first team. come on, that is clearly a different situation, we needed money to stay up, no players were coming throuh our dire set up, anyone in his position would do the same its the complete opposite now No players coming through? Sorry to be so blunt, but that's just rubbish. Andy Wilkinson had come through it, Ryan Shotton was in the Academy and many others including those still in the game but not at Stoke City.
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Post by shep207 on Apr 6, 2012 14:07:19 GMT
If Coates told Pulis there is no funds unless he sells to buy, Pulis would delibertaly play Binary football such is the stubborness of the man. He wouldn't need funds if he hadn't wasted it. I'm logging off now, I've got Pulisitis its a pitty some can't see what is exactly in front of there eyes. We get it, you don't like Pulis. Give it a fucking rest...
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 6, 2012 14:08:30 GMT
In defence, midfield and attack. Infact all the areas apart from Goalkeeper, this is despite near £90Million and 8 transfer windows, TP is a lucky man, someone like David Moyes would work wonders with the funds he has wastedThat's why DM earns loads more than Pulis. Well we should spend the money on a proper manager then shouldn't we that will use the clubs resources and the foreign transfer market.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 6, 2012 14:10:36 GMT
If Coates told Pulis there is no funds unless he sells to buy, Pulis would delibertaly play Binary football such is the stubborness of the man. You mean like when the Icelanders were here and Pulis' first team budget was lobbed into the same pot as the youth team budget? Like he says in the article, luckily we have a football man in charge now who knows what to do.
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 14:11:11 GMT
That's why DM earns loads more than Pulis. Well we should spend the money on a proper manager then shouldn't we that will use the clubs resources and the foreign transfer market. TBH, I'm not a big TP fan and I don't particularly care if he stays or goes. However, that is for another thread as he will not dictate what happens with the academy.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 14:15:28 GMT
In defence, midfield and attack. Infact all the areas apart from Goalkeeper, this is despite near £90Million and 8 transfer windows, TP is a lucky man, someone like David Moyes would work wonders with the funds he has wastedThat's why DM earns loads more than Pulis. The same David Moyes who is disliked by a significant proportion of Everton fans, the same David Moyes who has a much bigger wage budget than Stoke and the same David Moyes who between excellent seasons has had Everton in relegation trouble more than once?
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 14:16:36 GMT
That's why DM earns loads more than Pulis. The same David Moyes who is disliked by a significant proportion of Everton fans, the same David Moyes who has a much bigger wage budget than Stoke and the same David Moyes who between excellent seasons has had Everton in relegation trouble more than once? Yeah, that's him.
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Post by padders01 on Apr 6, 2012 14:29:13 GMT
That's why DM earns loads more than Pulis. The same David Moyes who is disliked by a significant proportion of Everton fans, the same David Moyes who has a much bigger wage budget than Stoke and the same David Moyes who between excellent seasons has had Everton in relegation trouble more than once? Momo, Moyes has only once finished in the bottom half at Everton
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 6, 2012 14:31:07 GMT
That's why DM earns loads more than Pulis. The same David Moyes who is disliked by a significant proportion of Everton fans, the same David Moyes who has a much bigger wage budget than Stoke and the same David Moyes who between excellent seasons has had Everton in relegation trouble more than once? The same David Moyes that brings youth through by giving them the chance? The same David Moyes who hasn't been able to sign a player for a fee since before step-toe was a lad? The same David Moyes who played a 17 year old Rooney then sold him for £30 Million? The same David Moyeswho bought Lescott from nowhere and sold him for £22Million? The same David Moyes that spotted Tim Cahill playing for Millwall? Landon Donovan... Leighton Baines.... Fellaini (12Mill well spent, with resale value) and now Royston Drenthe. Is this the same David Moyes you are talking about? Sounds like a right dud this Moyes chap does and I'd like you to expand with evidence on the wage difference Momo please
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Post by foster on Apr 6, 2012 14:34:22 GMT
The same David Moyes who is disliked by a significant proportion of Everton fans, the same David Moyes who has a much bigger wage budget than Stoke and the same David Moyes who between excellent seasons has had Everton in relegation trouble more than once? The same David Moyes that brings youth through by giving them the chance? The same David Moyes who hasn't been able to sign a player for a fee since before step-toe was a lad? The same David Moyes who played a 17 year old Rooney then sold him for £30 Million? The same David Moyeswho bought Lescott from nowhere and sold him for £22Million? The same David Moyes that spotted Tim Cahill playing for Millwall? Landon Donovan... Leighton Baines.... Fellaini (12Mill well spent, with resale value) and now Royston Drenthe. Is this the same David Moyes you are talking about? Sounds like a right dud this Moyes chap does and I'd like you to expand with evidence on the wage difference Momo please Yeah, that's him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 14:43:33 GMT
Yogi I think you make some fair points but the only way pulis will move is if absolute disaster befalls us , and it's hard to reconcile seeing an accident coming and actually wanting it to happen . At the end we all want the best for Stoke city whoever the manager or players.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 6, 2012 14:48:20 GMT
The same David Moyes who is disliked by a significant proportion of Everton fans, the same David Moyes who has a much bigger wage budget than Stoke and the same David Moyes who between excellent seasons has had Everton in relegation trouble more than once? The same David Moyes that brings youth through by giving them the chance? The same David Moyes who hasn't been able to sign a player for a fee since before step-toe was a lad? The same David Moyes who played a 17 year old Rooney then sold him for £30 Million? The same David Moyeswho bought Lescott from nowhere and sold him for £22Million? The same David Moyes that spotted Tim Cahill playing for Millwall? Landon Donovan... Leighton Baines.... Fellaini (12Mill well spent, with resale value) and now Royston Drenthe. Is this the same David Moyes you are talking about? Sounds like a right dud this Moyes chap does and I'd like you to expand with evidence on the wage difference Momo please It's hard to remember a poster putting their own argument in a noose with the style Sheiky has managed here! I'm now going to dream how good things could be at Stoke if a man of the calibre of Moyes was spending the Coates millions instead of pre-historic Tone.
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Post by Stoke70 on Apr 6, 2012 14:49:37 GMT
Tony Pulis has been the manager of our football club for ten years. He is not some new through the door manager who is desperately trying to turn around some sort of crisis point and needs to reshape the squad (or shouldnt be). He isnt in the world of many managers where he is living day to day on the next result. He is the very well funded manager of our football club and has been left free to spend many millions of pounds to stabalise and cement our position in the Premier League. We are not little Stoke battling against the odds anymore. We are a football club that has been on the gravy train for four seasons with a fifth one a certainty. We have a very wealthy chairman who has always been prepared to supplement Premier League income with millions of pounds of his money to now make us one of the most financially stable and well funded mid-tier Premier League clubs. Given all that it can be expected our secure as houses manager would feel comfortable with looking on a rather more distant horizon than how much he can blow on transfer fees for experienced workhorses in the summer transfer window. Looking to the longer term future of the football club is the responsibility of the Chairman, the Board and the senior management. Unfortunately we are saddled with a situation where only the directors of the club understand what is required. We are blessed with a manager who has not the vision or capacity to contemplate anything other than getting to forty points by hook and by crook each and every season. His bandwidth thinking and vision is limited to this one goal. At the highest level of football in the country with the fabulous rewards paid to Premier League managers you expect much more breadth and ability. If this latest statement was in isolation then you could dismiss it as being fairly bland. However it is one of a string of words and more importantly actions that tellyou that Tony Pulis has not the intent or capability to take on board what needs to be put into place to safeguard the future of our football club. He makes sure that nothing happens at the Academy without his knowledge and interference and has done so for the last ten years. He has only been excluded from appointing the senior management and coaches on one occasion which saw Steve Holland appointed. Ask Steve Holland how difficult Pulis tried to make that. All other appointments have been Pulis mates and aquaintances. That ten years have yielded Ryan Shotton. A potentially outstanding defender who Pulis claims is a winger. His understanding and commitment to the longer term future of the club has been little more than to give jobs to the Sam's, Aidies and so ons of this world. His latest statement has to be put in the context of his previous treatment of the subject. To not do so is denial. The football club cannot hope to have a long term future at this level operating oin the way it has for the last five years unless it either draws forty thousand crowds every week or it supplements the squad with quality home grow. Does anyone doubt there are top drawer managers and coaches the world over capable of delivering the full top flight package you would expect at Premier League level who would knock St Peter's door down to work with the advantages Tony Pulis has. It is about the club not slavish devotion to a manager. Totally agree
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 6, 2012 15:02:10 GMT
Surely the conclusion is clear as day for the brightest amongst us fellas. Everton and Stoke have an equal amount of fuckwitted imbeciles who hate the excellent incumbent manager. You're in good company with your Everton brethren
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 6, 2012 15:03:25 GMT
Surely the conclusion is clear as day for the brightest amongst us fellas. Everton and Stoke have an equal amount of fuckwitted imbeciles who hate the excellent incumbent manager. You're in good company with your Everton brethren Spot on.
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Post by Stoke70 on Apr 6, 2012 15:06:56 GMT
Surely the conclusion is clear as day for the brightest amongst us fellas. Everton and Stoke have an equal amount of fuckwitted imbeciles who hate the excellent incumbent manager. You're in good company with your Everton brethren And with any doubt you are the brightest
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