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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 12:51:15 GMT
We need 2 wingers in the team, on form, for that to happen.
Thats where we disagree. I don't blame Crouch or his style of play for that.
Wingers have always been critical for us. Given the restrictions of our full backs and the limitations of the cage, the wingers are our attacking outlets.
As it stands we've got one not in the squad and the other completely out of form.
Thats why we are struggling as an attacking force right now.
There's definitely a case for Crouch not being selected in some of our away games where we surrender most of the pitch and play for a point. Crouch isn't the type of player you want in your team when you are playing on the break. You need pace and creativity up front and I've already said in the past I'd go with Jerome and/or Ric in those type of games. Its pretty apparent Pulis will never do that though.
At times we leave the front man so isolated its untrue. In those games Crouch has been anonymous but it would have been the same if KJ had been selected or pretty much any other player in the world.
If you don't get service into the front man there's not a great deal he can do.
I still think its a case of "players around Crouch not performing and making his task a whole lot harder" as oppose to "the way Crouch plays making it difficult for Walters, Ethers etc to perform".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 12:55:46 GMT
We need 2 wingers in the team, on form, for that to happen. Thats where we disagree. I don't blame Crouch or his style of play for that. Wingers have always been critical for us. Given the restrictions of our full backs and the limitations of the cage, the wingers are our attacking outlets. As it stands we've got one not in the squad and the other completely out of form. Thats why we are struggling as an attacking force right now. There's definitely a case for Crouch not being selected in some of our away games where we surrender most of the pitch and play for a point. Crouch isn't the type of player you want in your team when you are playing on the break. You need pace and creativity up front and I've already said in the past I'd go with Jerome and/or Ric in those type of games. Its pretty apparent Pulis will never do that though. At times we leave the front man so isolated its untrue. In those games Crouch has been anonymous but it would have been the same if KJ had been selected or pretty much any other player in the world. If you don't get service into the front man there's not a great deal he can do. I still think its a case of "players around Crouch not performing and making his task a whole lot harder" as oppose to "the way Crouch plays making it difficult for Walters, Ethers etc to perform". I think lack of pace and space (two of the most important commodities in football) has hindered our attacking play a lot. That isn't necessarily down to Crouch, but I think it has affected us. Absolutely the wingers haven't performed this season and to an extent that is their fault, but I still think the problems at full back and up top have made it difficult, coupled with the fact that teams are coming to the Brit looking for a point and sussing that we rely heavily on the wide men. I accept that we're not going to agree on this though WD and I'm happy to move on.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 12:58:05 GMT
To be honest Paul I'm bored of this thread now (although I'll bring it back to the top on Monday after he scores over the weekend......). This place has started to feel very cliquey if I'm being honest. I just hope the wider Stoke fan base outside of this board appreciate what a great player we have in Crouch and the job he is doing for us. Its ludicrous to suggest he is to blame for others losing form or for our style of play not being as good as it was at the end of last season. If we can get players performing around him he's got loads more to give as well. You should absolutely bring it back up again WD. I'll bring back that Danny Pugh thread that's suddenly gone quiet mysteriously and a few of the old Danny Collins ones. Feel free to bring the Danny Pugh thread back up. I was told in no uncertain terms that after a few months he'd disappear out of the first team and become nothing but a bit part player. I argued the opposite. He's played almost 30 games for them now. Draw your own conclusions.
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 27, 2012 12:58:38 GMT
We need 2 wingers in the team, on form, for that to happen. Thats where we disagree. I don't blame Crouch or his style of play for that. Wingers have always been critical for us. Given the restrictions of our full backs and the limitations of the cage, the wingers are our attacking outlets. As it stands we've got one not in the squad and the other completely out of form. Thats why we are struggling as an attacking force right now. There's definitely a case for Crouch not being selected in some of our away games where we surrender most of the pitch and play for a point. Crouch isn't the type of player you want in your team when you are playing on the break. You need pace and creativity up front and I've already said in the past I'd go with Jerome and/or Ric in those type of games. Its pretty apparent Pulis will never do that though. At times we leave the front man so isolated its untrue. In those games Crouch has been anonymous but it would have been the same if KJ had been selected or pretty much any other player in the world. If you don't get service into the front man there's not a great deal he can do. I still think its a case of "players around Crouch not performing and making his task a whole lot harder" as oppose to "the way Crouch plays making it difficult for Walters, Ethers etc to perform". I think lack of pace and space (two of the most important commodities in football) has hindered our attacking play a lot. That isn't necessarily down to Crouch, but I think it has affected us. Absolutely the wingers haven't performed this season and to an extent that is their fault, but I still think the problems at full back and up top have made it difficult, coupled with the fact that teams are coming to the Brit looking for a point and sussing that we rely heavily on the wide men. I accept that we're not going to agree on this though WD and I'm happy to move on. Pffffttt. Thats no way to end an argument. The "Trouble" thread has me in the mood for some violence!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 13:01:52 GMT
You should absolutely bring it back up again WD. I'll bring back that Danny Pugh thread that's suddenly gone quiet mysteriously and a few of the old Danny Collins ones. Feel free to bring the Danny Pugh thread back up. I was told in no uncertain terms that after a few months he'd disappear out of the first team and become nothing but a bit part player. I argued the opposite. He's played almost 30 games for them now. Draw your own conclusions. It's a few months later and he's firmly on the bench...
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 13:03:57 GMT
Feel free to bring the Danny Pugh thread back up. I was told in no uncertain terms that after a few months he'd disappear out of the first team and become nothing but a bit part player. I argued the opposite. He's played almost 30 games for them now. Draw your own conclusions. It's a few months later and he's firmly on the bench... Like I said, I was told he'd be out of the team by Christmas. I think he's been on the bench for the last 2 or 3 games but thats it. Hardly the argument that was made by "the clique". Bit of an emerging pattern, don't admit when you are wrong. Is that the first rule of "Clique Club"?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 13:11:51 GMT
It's a few months later and he's firmly on the bench... Like I said, I was told he'd be out of the team by Christmas. I think he's been on the bench for the last 2 or 3 games but thats it. Hardly the argument that was made by "the clique". Bit of an emerging pattern, don't admit when you are wrong. Is that the first rule of "Clique Club"? Cliques tend to be more than one person. Put a timeframe spin on it any way you want, you said Pugh would be a great signing for a Championship team, I said he'd do ok at first and ultimately lose his place. Which is exactly what happened. Now I'm going to stop posting on this thread, because this is just unseemly.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 13:14:15 GMT
So you are putting a spin on it and don't admit you were wrong?
Righto.
Much love,
WD xx
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 13:31:29 GMT
So you are putting a spin on it and don't admit you were wrong? Righto. Much love, WD xx I was wrong in that I was out by about six weeks in predicting exactly what has happened. I'll never live it down. Laters. The thread's all yours.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 13:36:01 GMT
So if he gets his place back for the remainder of the season, plays around 40 games for the season that'll make you right because he dropped to the bench of a few games? You couldn't make it up. You have kept shtum until the time he has been dropped for a couple of games and then claimed to be right on the matter. Ha ha ha, the thread might be all mine but you are lighting it up with your posts Rob
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 14:07:32 GMT
So if he gets his place back for the remainder of the season, plays around 40 games for the season that'll make you right because he dropped to the bench of a few games? You couldn't make it up. You have kept shtum until the time he has been dropped for a couple of games and then claimed to be right on the matter. Ha ha ha, the thread might be all mine but you are lighting it up with your posts Rob If that happens it'll make me wrong. It hasn't yet. So your "great signing for a top 6 Championship club" isnt looking too peachy. Despite you dragging the thread up whenever he scored for weeks. He's started one game since Warnock took over. Presumably if he doesn't play again this season you'll hold your hands up?
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 14:18:15 GMT
I have no wish to renegotiate my position, you may do as you were wrong, but not me.
Your argument was he'd quickly become a bit-part player, I said he'd be an important first team player.
The facts are that he's played almost 30 games for Leeds this season and then he's been on the bench for the last 2 or 3 under a new manager.
This may be the start of an extended period out of the first team for him or it might just be a case of him being rested for a handful of games before he is back in the first team. At this point in time we don't know either way.
The facts are, he's played 95%+ of the games since he's been there. He's been a first team regault for a top half side and his team currently sit just 3 points off the play offs with plenty of games left to finish in the top 6. You say you have no problem admitting when you are wrong yet the evidence suggests otherwise. You are taking the fact he's been on the bench for the past 2 or 3 games and using as reasoning why you are right.
Some people just don't like to admit when they are wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 14:22:25 GMT
I have no wish to renegotiate my position, you may do as you were wrong, but not me. Your argument was he'd quickly become a bit-part player, I said he'd be an important first team player. The facts are that he's played almost 30 games for Leeds this season and then he's been on the bench for the last 2 or 3 under a new manager. This may be the start of an extended period out of the first team for him or it might just be a case of him being rested for a handful of games before he is back in the first team. At this point in time we don't know either way. The facts are, he's played 95%+ of the games since he's been there. He's been a first team regault for a top half side and his team currently sit just 3 points off the play offs with plenty of games left to finish in the top 6. You say you have no problem admitting when you are wrong yet the evidence suggests otherwise. You are taking the fact he's been on the bench for the past 2 or 3 games and using as reasoning why you are right. Some people just don't like to admit when they are wrong. So if he doesn't get back into the team this season, after you said he'd be a cracking signing for a top 6 side and I said he'd play for a bit and lose his place, that'll make me wrong will it?
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 14:26:03 GMT
Rob, I seriously doubt you've ever been wrong about anything in your life so the answer you probably want to hear is "no, of course you won't be wrong".
There you go flower.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 14:31:34 GMT
Rob, I seriously doubt you've ever been wrong about anything in your life so the answer you probably want to hear is "no, of course you won't be wrong". There you go flower. Much better, thanks.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 27, 2012 15:48:07 GMT
Are Leeds even a top 6 Championship team? Danny Pugh is toss. He was toss for us in the Championship and he was toss for us in the Premiership. WD - If saying that Danny Pugh is a good player is proof of your extensive football knowledge, then I feel that you may have well shot yourself in the foot somewhat! If you actually read this thread. Everyone is in agreement that we need more pace and a better partner in order to get the VERY best out of Crouch. It may even need a slight tweak to our very rigid system of play. We need two wingers to play and play well. Essentially we all agree and somewhere along the line, what was actually a pretty good discussion got lost and descended into who was right or wrong about Danny fucking Pugh. Whoever said Pugh was shit, was correct! Move on!
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 15:52:24 GMT
Are Leeds even a top 6 Championship team? Danny Pugh is toss. He was toss for us in the Championship and he was toss for us in the Premiership. WD - If saying that Danny Pugh is a good player is proof of your extensive football knowledge, then I feel that you may have well shot yourself in the foot somewhat! If you actually read this thread. Everyone is in agreement that we need more pace and a better partner in order to get the VERY best out of Crouch. It may even need a slight tweak to our very rigid system of play. We need two wingers to play and play well. Essentially we all agree and somewhere along the line, what was actually a pretty good discussion got lost and descended into who was right or wrong about Danny fucking Pugh. Whoever said Pugh was shit, was correct! Move on! The actual argument was whether Pugh would hold a place in the Leeds side or not, and Rob was wrong. We may have gone off at a slight tangent to get to that subject mind!!
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 27, 2012 15:55:21 GMT
If you were indeed right WD, I think that may have been more of an indictment on Leeds and Simon Grayson than it is on Rob's judgement.
If Danny Pugh is a Leeds regular, they must be shit. I suspect Warnock bombed him out of the team at the first opportunity!
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Post by superjonnywalters on Mar 27, 2012 15:56:31 GMT
He did, and they got thumped 7-3 in an embarassing defeat Nothing further your honour.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 27, 2012 15:58:34 GMT
On that basis, I can't believe we sold him! Pulis Out!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 15:59:49 GMT
If you were indeed right WD, I think that may have been more of an indictment on Leeds and Simon Grayson than it is on Rob's judgement. If Danny Pugh is a Leeds regular, they must be shit. I suspect Warnock bombed him out of the team at the first opportunity! Yep. And suddenly they're right back in the play off hunt...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 16:00:28 GMT
Are Leeds even a top 6 Championship team? Danny Pugh is toss. He was toss for us in the Championship and he was toss for us in the Premiership. WD - If saying that Danny Pugh is a good player is proof of your extensive football knowledge, then I feel that you may have well shot yourself in the foot somewhat! If you actually read this thread. Everyone is in agreement that we need more pace and a better partner in order to get the VERY best out of Crouch. It may even need a slight tweak to our very rigid system of play. We need two wingers to play and play well. Essentially we all agree and somewhere along the line, what was actually a pretty good discussion got lost and descended into who was right or wrong about Danny fucking Pugh. Whoever said Pugh was shit, was correct! Move on! The actual argument was whether Pugh would hold a place in the Leeds side or not, and Rob was wrong. We may have gone off at a slight tangent to get to that subject mind!! How was I wrong? He hasn't!
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Post by onionman on Mar 27, 2012 19:11:17 GMT
Danny Pugh's been maligned everywhere he's been, but there'll always be a promotion-seeking Championship team happy to find a place for him in their squad.
He's made a good career from being an honest trier who happens to be left footed.
His attitude and left foot are so impressive that even if he gets involved in a freak accident rendering his entire body paralysed apart from his left foot, he'll probably still refuse to give up, playing out the remainder of his career as a Championship standard left midfielder/left-back in a wheelchair, who spends his evenings learning to grip a paintbrush between his toes so that he can paint awe-inspiring pictures.
One day somebody will write an essay about Danny Pugh, and it will eventually be turned into an award-winning film starring Daniel Day-Lewis, who will pay him the ultimate tribute by changing his own name to Daniel Day-Pughis.
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