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Post by Squeekster on Feb 7, 2012 21:33:37 GMT
We know we aren't Barca, squeekster. We really do, but we're hardly Grimsby town in terms of performance these days. The media are just a boil on the arse of what we supporters are coming to realise! Sad but true Sorry mate i wasn't eluding to fact we don't play like them only that if take Barca,Swansea and Arsenal who other really plays that way? Its not the be all and end all. We certainly are capable of playing a more attacking flowing style of football and have the players to do it, on another thread some one suggested that if we replace Pulis(and I'm not suggesting we do)it would take millions to get players in to change our style, i disagree 2 players and a change of attitude and we'd good to go!
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Post by baystokie on Feb 7, 2012 21:34:36 GMT
Most of whats going on in football these days is the media and this love affair with Barcelona and the way they play. Thats Spain but this is England and we have always played a certain style of football. For every one team that plays like Barcelona there is 100's that don't so why don't the media fuck off with the comparison every weekend to them! ' certain style of football' - presumably why England have never won anything for 45 years? A result of the 'little Englander' siege mentality - everyone else is wrong but us.
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Post by french toast on Feb 7, 2012 21:37:53 GMT
"I disagreed with Tony's post match comments on Saturday, for me it smacked of trying to deflect his own short comings" Spot chuffing on mate. As sure as death and taxes, it's NEVER TP's fault. did sir alex blame his tactics after the barca final last season? has sir alex ever blamed himself? i suppose that is to deflect his short comings too? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 7, 2012 21:40:03 GMT
Most of whats going on in football these days is the media and this love affair with Barcelona and the way they play. Thats Spain but this is England and we have always played a certain style of football. For every one team that plays like Barcelona there is 100's that don't so why don't the media fuck off with the comparison every weekend to them! ' certain style of football' - presumably why England have never won anything for 45 years? A result of the 'little Englander' siege mentality - everyone else is wrong but us. Not really just that in England we eat roast beef and Yorkshire pudding in Spain they torture then kill helpless bulls.
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Post by citynickscfc on Feb 7, 2012 21:41:46 GMT
I cannot believe that so called Stoke Supporters, those who if you asked 5-10 years ago ''what would you do for premiership football, transfer window excitement and europa league football'' would have answered....''Well if the football isnt exciting John I think I would like to keep our Handyside and O'conner, they certainly spark the place alight!''.
Get off your arse, start a song, back the team, MAKE SOMETHING OF IT! Jesus really wept. I am not saying avoid discussion or criticism, but people make mistakes, players have bad games, and football teams win and loose on occasion. Stoke will never be a top 6 club (at least not under the current financial corruption in football), so 7th is our glass ceiling. We are 5 places off that.....a Europa game coming up, trips to old trafford, emirates etc
get behind the team!!!!!!!!!
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 7, 2012 21:42:23 GMT
Good Post. Personally I would like to see David Moyes as our manager after this season. I'm sure that given the right "package" from Sir Peter of Kidsgrove we could tempt him down here. Pulis is on a one year rolling contract so compensation wouldn't be too much of an issue. Compensation is probably already factored into the accounts as 'future expenditure'. What could/will be a stumbling block for PC and/or his heirs is te massive cost of changing the playing personnel to fit in with the new manager's gameplan/organisation. The new man will almost certainly(?) not be a TP-clone so the playing blueprint/strategy/tactics will vary considerably. Not sure how many of the current 25 + fringe will fit into this 'new world' hence potential fortune required to change. As an additional item - backroom staff are also likely to be subject to extensive turnround. Hope that when it happens (as it will whether in the near or far distant future) that we have the same level of financial backing - not sure it could be done if we become 'self-sufficient' Im not sure this would be an issue to be honest because we have the nucleus of a good squad....many can see that and hopefully the new incumbent of the hot seat will as well. Every man and his dog knows where we need top strengthen so when the new manager comes in he will analyse the bare patches so to speak and NOT waste another 4 years waiting to fill them.....THEN we would start go see some sexy football. Mourinho once said on football focus that his Chelsea squad consisted of 26 players with cover (before the 25 man rule came in)for every position (and appropriate cover at that) with a 3rd goalie, and a utility player for defence, midifeld and attack...that was it. Clealry we dont have the Chelsea cash behind us but our squad wouldnt need much tinkering to it surely....?
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Post by RAF on Feb 7, 2012 21:47:37 GMT
When Pulis leaves we will get relegated no matter what manager we get and no matter how much money he is given We will become Charlton and we will deserve what we have got for ever questioning TP ever. H this is totally true. all this talk of "pushing on" and"the next level" are a load of bollocks.there is no next level.premier league stability is what stokies have been begging for for years and now we seem to have it people are whining about how we do it. get a grip and appreciate what we have,while we have it. No it's not totally true, it's a load of bollox that some on here would have you believe. H
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Post by swampmongrel on Feb 7, 2012 21:51:43 GMT
You took the words right out of my mouth. I would risk premier status for better footy. Getting very bored .... Very interesting comment that fish... How many people would RISK Premiership football for better football.?? I think I would at this moment. I wouldn't risk Premiership football for anything at all. Sometimes I think people forget just how low our profile as a club had sank after 23 years. I grew up (32 yo now) thinking Stoke were a 'sleeping giant' who ought to expect to compete at the top table if not every season but pretty regularly but this was only because people in the area gave me that impression. I've lived out of the area for the past 14 years and I can assure you that no other football fans of a similar age imagined that Stoke were a club that had that sort of potential. Stoke as a club had a similar profile to Huddersield Town, or Bristol Rovers, or Bury, in other words might have been good once upon a time but pretty much no hopers. It was seen as a bloody miracle that we found ourselves back in the top flight. The point is that every season of football in the top flight repairs a bit of the damage that was done by that 23 year long absence. Not because it changes the profile of the club in the eyes of fans of other clubs (I couldn't give a shit about that TBH) but what it does to help secure the future of the club and secure a new generation of fans. It's a sad fact that the distribution of resources in English football means that if you drop out of this league you're in trouble and you're in even bigger trouble if you don't make a fairly rapid return. Anything that risks our Premier League status doesn't just mean that we might have a few seasons of Championship footie but it also risks another 23 year (or longer) absence and another 'lost generation'. I'm pretty sure if you asked current generation of kids in N. Staffs whether they'd rather watch Pulisball in the Premiership or tika taka further down the leagues they'd take Pulisball any day of the week. This isn't meant to be a 'look what happened to Charlton' post but I do want to emphasize that I reckon stability is all important in this league. I can understand frustrations because we seem to be particularly negative at this moment and I think criticism of Pulis is fair enough when it relates to square pegs and the way we approach some away matches. But I honestly doubt that many other PL clubs are being significantly more 'entertained' than us at the moment, at least not enough to start fucking around too much with our well tested formula.
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Post by jonah77 on Feb 7, 2012 21:52:40 GMT
this is totally true. all this talk of "pushing on" and"the next level" are a load of bollocks.there is no next level.premier league stability is what stokies have been begging for for years and now we seem to have it people are whining about how we do it. get a grip and appreciate what we have,while we have it. No it's not totally true, it's a load of bollox that some on here would have you believe. H it is totally true,i'll put money on us going down when tone leaves.
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Post by baystokie on Feb 7, 2012 21:54:49 GMT
' certain style of football' - presumably why England have never won anything for 45 years? A result of the 'little Englander' siege mentality - everyone else is wrong but us. Not really just that in England we eat roast beef and Yorkshire pudding in Spain they torture then kill helpless bulls. TBH, not really sure what your comment has to do with my post However, you should know that the Catalan province (where Barca are situated), banned all bullfighting last November. I know that's not all of Spain but obviously the news has not filtered down to the Potteries. The UK has banned foxhunting (and coursing?) only recently but that also has little relevance to the post.
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Post by french toast on Feb 7, 2012 21:57:16 GMT
this is totally true. all this talk of "pushing on" and"the next level" are a load of bollocks.there is no next level.premier league stability is what stokies have been begging for for years and now we seem to have it people are whining about how we do it. get a grip and appreciate what we have,while we have it. No it's not totally true, it's a load of bollox that some on here would have you believe. H the grass isnt always greener on the other side though, tony is doing a great job, no one is doubting that he makes mistakes as does every manager but my main gripe with the haters is this constant feeling that they're sharpening knifes ready to stick in pulis. he doesnt recieve the credit he deserves. would we get relegated if he were to leave? no i doubt it! would we achieve more with someone else? i doubt that also
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Post by Stokiedokie on Feb 7, 2012 22:03:20 GMT
Very interesting comment that fish... How many people would RISK Premiership football for better football.?? I think I would at this moment. I wouldn't risk Premiership football for anything at all. Sometimes I think people forget just how low our profile as a club had sank after 23 years. I grew up (32 yo now) thinking Stoke were a 'sleeping giant' who ought to expect to compete at the top table if not every season but pretty regularly but this was only because people in the area gave me that impression. I've lived out of the area for the past 14 years and I can assure you that no other football fans of a similar age imagined that Stoke were a club that had that sort of potential. Stoke as a club had a similar profile to Huddersield Town, or Bristol Rovers, or Bury, in other words might have been good once upon a time but pretty much no hopers. It was seen as a bloody miracle that we found ourselves back in the top flight. The point is that every season of football in the top flight repairs a bit of the damage that was done by that 23 year long absence. Not because it changes the profile of the club in the eyes of fans of other clubs (I couldn't give a shit about that TBH) but what it does to help secure the future of the club and secure a new generation of fans. It's a sad fact that the distribution of resources in English football means that if you drop out of this league you're in trouble and you're in even bigger trouble if you don't make a fairly rapid return. Anything that risks our Premier League status doesn't just mean that we might have a few seasons of Championship footie but it also risks another 23 year (or longer) absence and another 'lost generation'. I'm pretty sure if you asked current generation of kids in N. Staffs whether they'd rather watch Pulisball in the Premiership or tika taka further down the leagues they'd take Pulisball any day of the week. This isn't meant to be a 'look what happened to Charlton' post but I do want to emphasize that I reckon stability is all important in this league. I can understand frustrations because we seem to be particularly negative at this moment and I think criticism of Pulis is fair enough when it relates to square pegs and the way we approach some away matches. But I honestly doubt that many other PL clubs are being significantly more 'entertained' than us at the moment, at least not enough to start fucking around too much with our well tested formula. May I just say that I don't give a stuff about the quality of the football. If it means staying in the Premisiership, give me Pulisball every time. If it means explaining to my eight-year-old that he won't be watching ManUre at the Brit anymore, but never mind because we're playing free-flowing Boskampball in the Championship, then forget it. Pulisball, Pulisball and more Pulisball please.
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 7, 2012 22:03:31 GMT
No it's not totally true, it's a load of bollox that some on here would have you believe. H the grass isnt always greener on the other side though, tony is doing a great job, no one is doubting that he makes mistakes as does every manager but my main gripe with the haters is this constant feeling that they're sharpening knifes ready to stick in pulis. he doesnt recieve the credit he deserves. would we get relegated if he were to leave? no i doubt it! would we achieve more with someone else? i doubt that also I hate it when you say haters most don't want to see Pulis gone just a change in attitude which he has shown he can do. Everyone on this board respects and appreciates what tone has done.
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Post by french toast on Feb 7, 2012 22:05:48 GMT
the grass isnt always greener on the other side though, tony is doing a great job, no one is doubting that he makes mistakes as does every manager but my main gripe with the haters is this constant feeling that they're sharpening knifes ready to stick in pulis. he doesnt recieve the credit he deserves. would we get relegated if he were to leave? no i doubt it! would we achieve more with someone else? i doubt that also I hate it when you say haters most don't want to see Pulis gone just a change in attitude which he has shown he can do. Everyone on this board respects and appreciates what tone has done. slowly slowly catchee monkey
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Post by swampmongrel on Feb 7, 2012 22:06:50 GMT
Most of whats going on in football these days is the media and this love affair with Barcelona and the way they play. Thats Spain but this is England and we have always played a certain style of football. For every one team that plays like Barcelona there is 100's that don't so why don't the media fuck off with the comparison every weekend to them! ' certain style of football' - presumably why England have never won anything for 45 years? A result of the 'little Englander' siege mentality - everyone else is wrong but us. This is, frankly, a nonsense argument. What exactly had Spain won up to 4 years ago? Every now and again a country of the size of England might have a group of players who might be able to challenge but its not guaranteed. English sides have been pretty good at making the eight of tournaments and to be honest that's about our par unless we have an exceptional group at a particular tournament. I think it's only the 'little Englanders' who think that we should be winning tournaments regularly. Somebody else on this board a few weeks ago (it might have been RVD) said that if there's any team we should be looking to emulate it's Germany. Pretty hard to argue with that given that they've overachieved consistantly. German sides are generally based on organisation and shifting the ball from back to front rapidly. It might not exactly be the Pulis model but it certainly isn't the Spanish model either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 22:07:31 GMT
I wouldn't risk Premiership football for anything at all. Sometimes I think people forget just how low our profile as a club had sank after 23 years. I grew up (32 yo now) thinking Stoke were a 'sleeping giant' who ought to expect to compete at the top table if not every season but pretty regularly but this was only because people in the area gave me that impression. I've lived out of the area for the past 14 years and I can assure you that no other football fans of a similar age imagined that Stoke were a club that had that sort of potential. Stoke as a club had a similar profile to Huddersield Town, or Bristol Rovers, or Bury, in other words might have been good once upon a time but pretty much no hopers. It was seen as a bloody miracle that we found ourselves back in the top flight. The point is that every season of football in the top flight repairs a bit of the damage that was done by that 23 year long absence. Not because it changes the profile of the club in the eyes of fans of other clubs (I couldn't give a shit about that TBH) but what it does to help secure the future of the club and secure a new generation of fans. It's a sad fact that the distribution of resources in English football means that if you drop out of this league you're in trouble and you're in even bigger trouble if you don't make a fairly rapid return. Anything that risks our Premier League status doesn't just mean that we might have a few seasons of Championship footie but it also risks another 23 year (or longer) absence and another 'lost generation'. I'm pretty sure if you asked current generation of kids in N. Staffs whether they'd rather watch Pulisball in the Premiership or tika taka further down the leagues they'd take Pulisball any day of the week. This isn't meant to be a 'look what happened to Charlton' post but I do want to emphasize that I reckon stability is all important in this league. I can understand frustrations because we seem to be particularly negative at this moment and I think criticism of Pulis is fair enough when it relates to square pegs and the way we approach some away matches. But I honestly doubt that many other PL clubs are being significantly more 'entertained' than us at the moment, at least not enough to start fucking around too much with our well tested formula. May I just say that I don't give a stuff about the quality of the football. If it means staying in the Premisiership, give me Pulisball every time. If it means explaining to my eight-year-old that he won't be watching ManUre at the Brit anymore, but never mind because we're playing free-flowing Boskampball in the Championship, then forget it. Pulisball, Pulisball and more Pulisball please. I'm not especially bothered about free-flowing football. I want to see Pulisball at its best, with two flying wingers, a bit of pace and a positive mindset. Why do we have to be happy with this turgid, excitement-free shite where we don't look like scoring in a millions years and rely entirely on winning a corner or a throw?
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 7, 2012 22:09:10 GMT
I hate it when you say haters most don't want to see Pulis gone just a change in attitude which he has shown he can do. Everyone on this board respects and appreciates what tone has done. slowly slowly catchee monkey I don't get it mate.
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Post by Davef on Feb 7, 2012 22:09:36 GMT
No it's not totally true, it's a load of bollox that some on here would have you believe. H it is totally true,i'll put money on us going down when tone leaves. Why on earth would we go down when Tony leaves? If he stays for, say another five years (that'll be eleven years in his second spell), and we're still a Premier League club with the Coates' family's backing, why on earth would it go tits up? Surely he would have left a stable club in place wouldn't he? After all, that is his stated end goal for the club? Do you doubt that if our club was as financially stable as it is now, we wouldn't be able to attract a good manager? If you think that TP's departure will automatically lead to relegation, then you're clearly suggesting that he will leave no legacy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 22:11:28 GMT
I hate it when you say haters most don't want to see Pulis gone just a change in attitude which he has shown he can do. Everyone on this board respects and appreciates what tone has done. slowly slowly catchee monkey It's been eight years! We've barely changed at all and if anything are going backwards in terms of our approach.
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Post by march4 on Feb 7, 2012 22:20:33 GMT
slowly slowly catchee monkey It's been eight years! We've barely changed at all and if anything are going backwards in terms of our approach. I don't think we are going backwards Rob. Staying the same perhaps?
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Post by jonah77 on Feb 7, 2012 22:21:31 GMT
alan curbishley went from charlton-relegated sam aladyce went from bolton-almost got relegated sam aladyce went from blackburn-almost got relegated harry redknapp went from portsmouth-relegated these are just a few examples,from the top of my head,of mangers leaving and clubs positions deteriorating.
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Post by Davef on Feb 7, 2012 22:24:41 GMT
alan curbishley went from charlton-relegated sam aladyce went from bolton-almost got relegated sam aladyce went from blackburn-almost got relegated harry redknapp went from portsmouth-relegated these are just a few examples,from the top of my head,of mangers leaving and clubs positions deteriorating. And what is the common denominator in most of those clubs?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 22:26:24 GMT
It's been eight years! We've barely changed at all and if anything are going backwards in terms of our approach. I don't think we are going backwards Rob. Staying the same perhaps? We're scoring less goals, creating less chances and generally don't look anywhere near as good as we did at the end of last season. The manager has abandoned principles like playing both wingers or using players comfortable on the ball at full back. We're setting up negatively, even at home.
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Post by jonah77 on Feb 7, 2012 22:37:53 GMT
alan curbishley went from charlton-relegated sam aladyce went from bolton-almost got relegated sam aladyce went from blackburn-almost got relegated harry redknapp went from portsmouth-relegated these are just a few examples,from the top of my head,of mangers leaving and clubs positions deteriorating. And what is the common denominator in most of those clubs? that the managers left and the clubs fortunes then dropped.
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Post by Davef on Feb 7, 2012 22:43:47 GMT
And what is the common denominator in most of those clubs? that the managers left and the clubs fortunes then dropped. So it was nothing to do with the clubs in question having financial problems or their board appointing poor managers? Tell me, how many times have Fulham replaced their manager? Are they still a Premier League club? Wigan have had four managers since they've been in the Premier League and have lasted seven seasons, a great effort for a club of their size. Lack of money and/or poor managers cause teams to be relegated. Nothing more, nothing less. The greatest manager in our club's history resigned his post because he knew he had little chance of keeping the team in the First Division because our finances were so desperately poor. If and when Tony Pulis leaves (and if we're still a Premier League club) that will be the only reason we'll go down.
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Post by RAF on Feb 7, 2012 22:56:37 GMT
alan curbishley went from charlton-relegated sam aladyce went from bolton-almost got relegated sam aladyce went from blackburn-almost got relegated harry redknapp went from portsmouth-relegated these are just a few examples,from the top of my head,of mangers leaving and clubs positions deteriorating. Ramos left Spurs, they are now 3rd Hughton left Newcastle , they are now 5th Fat head left Blunderland, they are now 8th Mark Hughes left Man City, they are now top. H
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Post by march4 on Feb 7, 2012 22:58:33 GMT
that the managers left and the clubs fortunes then dropped. So it was nothing to do with the clubs in question having financial problems or their board appointing poor managers? Tell me, how many times have Fulham replaced their manager? Are they still a Premier League club? Wigan have had four managers since they've been in the Premier League and have lasted seven seasons, a great effort for a club of their size. Lack of money and/or poor managers cause teams to be relegated. Nothing more, nothing less. The greatest manager in our club's history resigned his post because he knew he had little chance of keeping the team in the First Division because our finances were so desperately poor. If and when Tony Pulis leaves (and if we're still a Premier League club) that will be the only reason we'll go down. You are, of course, right Dave, but I think we also have to take ethos into account. Our bristling style and siege mentality could be difficult to reproduce for a newcomer. For any organisation, a clear identity improves effeciency.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 7, 2012 23:12:37 GMT
Sick of some of this shit now.
Our style of play - When we destroyed Bolton 5-0 we didn't suddenly turn into Barca or Real did we?
It was exciting tempo up-and-at-em football with 2 wingers on the pitch.
Nobody is asking us to turn into some team who plays fifty passes before scoring, we aren't asking us to completely rip up the blueprint all we want is:
a) 11 players in their natural positions
b) 2 wingers (and to buy cover for when 1 is injured/banned)
That's it, that's all we want.
It's not a lot to ask for is it? All this crap about enjoying it while it last's well it ain't going to last unless we address the key area's above.
And if we just accept what were getting served up now we'll all be able to fuck off up the vale.
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Post by french toast on Feb 8, 2012 0:01:59 GMT
slowly slowly catchee monkey It's been eight years! We've barely changed at all and if anything are going backwards in terms of our approach. its been 8 years and weve slowly developed into a premiership force, got to the fa cup final and are facing one of the biggest teams in the world in the knockouts of a major european competition. maintaining form during this season was always going to be difficult, lets not forget that we won four games on the bounce in the premier league for the first time either. we have got 3-4 players who need a rest (blame has to go to pulis for this one), recent form is surely down to players minds being focused on the valencia game, it was always going to be the case! its a new experience for many of the lads and im sure they are struggling to get up for games with the main event coming up. if huth hadnt have been wrongly sent off i doubt a thread like this would exist because i still think we would have won the game.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 8, 2012 8:07:53 GMT
Obviously a loss is going to increase the likely hood of a questioning post, but like I mentioned it's not all about Saturday's game.
I love Stoke in the premiership and everything that goes with it, the media coverage, better revenue, being linked and buying 'big' names etc. And small things like work colleagues knowing more about my club - basically better awareness of the potters.
It seems strange to address things after one of our best years in 2011, the cup semi final was just amazing and I've enjoyed the Europa, but I am inquiring, because I feel the need to, hence the question, isn't it just getting a bit hum-drum?
Which is the crux of my original post.
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