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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 11:09:59 GMT
Perhaps it's both, personal experience chiming with something they also read on here.
You'd have to be a bit of a sorry specimen to disregard all of the sometimes very good points made on here simply because it didn't agree with your previous safe world view or you hadn't experienced it personally yet.
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 11:13:11 GMT
Sounds like mr sausage is full of himself... funny how all the left think themselves right.
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Post by frasier99 on Feb 6, 2012 11:23:02 GMT
Yet the Left think the right is wrong ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 11:28:58 GMT
Sounds like mr sausage is full of himself... funny how all the left think themselves right. What did you expect? They are more intelligent.
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 11:29:32 GMT
Yet the Left think the right is wrong ;D The right are right the left think they're right so the left can't be right if they're left unless the left are right and the right are wrong but the right are right and the left are not right with them being left.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 11:35:07 GMT
Can't argue with that
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Post by frasier99 on Feb 6, 2012 11:35:11 GMT
Yet the Left think the right is wrong ;D The right are right the left think they're right so the left can't be right if they're left unless the left are right and the right are wrong but the right are right and the left are not right with them being left. ??? ??? ??? ....i'll get back to you on that one Yer boots are heavy, yer trousers are tight, yer balls are swinging from left to right.... left, left... left right, left.
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 11:40:45 GMT
Sounds like mr sausage is full of himself... funny how all the left think themselves right. What did you expect? They are more intelligent. Is that why we had over ten years of misrule from the left... Blair the moron that signed up to the so called "human rights treaty" which is just another name for a criminals charter...and then brown the clown, just because some lady asked him about immigration he called her a bigot!
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Post by frasier99 on Feb 6, 2012 11:42:59 GMT
Oh seasider, you've let me down.......you've joined the intelligence club ;D
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 11:45:05 GMT
The right are right the left think they're right so the left can't be right if they're left unless the left are right and the right are wrong but the right are right and the left are not right with them being left. ??? ??? ??? ....i'll get back to you on that one Yer boots are heavy, yer trousers are tight, yer balls are swinging from left to right.... left, left... left right, left. Hmmmm... they're not swinging in this weather! ;D
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 11:51:38 GMT
Oh seasider, you've let me down.......you've joined the intelligence club ;D Nothing left to do, not sure if left is left and right is right or left is right and right is left... I'll stick to the centre from now on and become ambidextrous... and get the best of right and left
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Post by frasier99 on Feb 6, 2012 12:10:15 GMT
i wear my cock to the right but i like to piss on the left, yet like you, i'm ambidextrous on the hole whole
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 12:13:31 GMT
What did you expect? They are more intelligent. Is that why we had over ten years of misrule from the left... Blair the moron that signed up to the so called "human rights treaty" which is just another name for a criminals charter...and then brown the clown, just because some lady asked him about immigration he called her a bigot! I never realised the human rights treaty was subtitled a criminals charter, please explain?
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Post by salopstick on Feb 6, 2012 12:48:51 GMT
Is that why we had over ten years of misrule from the left... Blair the moron that signed up to the so called "human rights treaty" which is just another name for a criminals charter...and then brown the clown, just because some lady asked him about immigration he called her a bigot! I never realised the human rights treaty was subtitled a criminals charter, please explain? dont bite mate, and thats why the survey is bollocks as luke knows exactly what you mean off topic whilst doing a lot of good there have been two many instances of criminals and other scum bags bringing their cases through the courts under the umbrella of the HRA. Mrs Blair has made a small fortune from it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 13:32:31 GMT
I wish he would answer as it's statements like that which demonstrate precisely what that survey was all about.
"The human rights treaty is just another name for a criminals charter".
Where's the reasoning behind a conclusion like that?
Even if he did provide a couple of examples where the treaty had apparently been abused on behalf of criminals, (just like redstriper and the honours system) he'd simply ignore the wealth of evidence showing that, overall, it's a force for good that people have human rights and legislation to protect them.
That concentration on what backs up your limited world view and makes you feel safe while ignoring anything that challenges it is exactly what that survey's on about.
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 14:28:46 GMT
go and show your faith in the "human Rights" law to the parents of the 12 year old girl run down and killed by that so called "asylum seeker" in Blackburn... and there are MANY other cases where foreign criminals can't be deported because it infringes their "human rights". We seemed to have managed our rights without it before...
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Post by salopstick on Feb 6, 2012 14:58:40 GMT
I wish he would answer as it's statements like that which demonstrate precisely what that survey was all about. "The human rights treaty is just another name for a criminals charter". Where's the reasoning behind a conclusion like that? Even if he did provide a couple of examples where the treaty had apparently been abused on behalf of criminals, (just like redstriper and the honours system) he'd simply ignore the wealth of evidence showing that, overall, it's a force for good that people have human rights and legislation to protect them. That concentration on what backs up your limited world view and makes you feel safe while ignoring anything that challenges it is exactly what that survey's on about. luke my view is anything but limited i cant be arsed to trawl the newspapers wether left, right or the daily mail to find the bad stories. just like benefits there will always be abuse that people focus on. it doesnt help reading stories where criminals sue because it is their human right to have some luxury in prison (or other similar stories) most of these modern treaties and european legislation seem to be signed as a good idea at the time until you read the small print then you find that in this instance, the HRA ends up being used as a tool against the spirit in which it was intended. when you criminals using HRA for their own means you can see why folk will refer it as a criminal's charter all this press privacy gets my goat too, if you live your life through the press dont complain when they print a story they want kept quiet.
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Post by Tubes on Feb 6, 2012 15:00:16 GMT
go and show your faith in the "human Rights" law to the parents of the 12 year old girl run down and killed by that so called "asylum seeker" in Blackburn... and there are MANY other cases where foreign criminals can't be deported because it infringes their "human rights". We seemed to have managed our rights without it before... does it mean they can't be put in prison like any other criminal?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 15:08:26 GMT
go and show your faith in the "human Rights" law to the parents of the 12 year old girl run down and killed by that so called "asylum seeker" in Blackburn... and there are MANY other cases where foreign criminals can't be deported because it infringes their "human rights". We seemed to have managed our rights without it before... So list these MANY other cases. Then provide some examples of where the human rights act has been beneficial, then show me why you think it's a criminals charter on balance rather than a force for good. Is that an unreasonable request? You said it was a criminals charter. You presumably formed this conclusion based on a balanced look at all the evidence? Or was it just a selective example of a "so-called asylum-seeker" involved in a hit-and-run accident that stuck in your mind more because it annoyed you so much?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 15:16:56 GMT
luke my view is anything but limited i cant be arsed to trawl the newspapers wether left, right or the daily mail to find the bad stories. just like benefits there will always be abuse that people focus on. it doesnt help reading stories where criminals sue because it is their human right to have some luxury in prison (or other similar stories) most of these modern treaties and european legislation seem to be signed as a good idea at the time until you read the small print then you find that in this instance, the HRA ends up being used as a tool against the spirit in which it was intended. when you criminals using HRA for their own means you can see why folk will refer it as a criminal's charter all this press privacy gets my goat too, if you live your life through the press dont complain when they print a story they want kept quiet. Al, with all due respect, I think that just illustrates the lack of depth of reasoning that the Mail was on about with right-wingers. You're right - there will be benefits abuses, there will be human rights act 'abuses' but these, as you agree, are the minority of cases compared to the overwhelming majority of decent benefits claimants and 'good' uses of the HRA. So why are the rightwingers on here apparently unable to get beyond these few cases and conclude that it's a criminals charter if not for the reasons in that study? Tony Pulis is a shit manager because we've lost our last two home games, never mind the last five years.
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Post by seasidestokie on Feb 6, 2012 18:11:42 GMT
go and show your faith in the "human Rights" law to the parents of the 12 year old girl run down and killed by that so called "asylum seeker" in Blackburn... and there are MANY other cases where foreign criminals can't be deported because it infringes their "human rights". We seemed to have managed our rights without it before... So list these MANY other cases. Then provide some examples of where the human rights act has been beneficial, then show me why you think it's a criminals charter on balance rather than a force for good. Is that an unreasonable request? You said it was a criminals charter. You presumably formed this conclusion based on a balanced look at all the evidence? Or was it just a selective example of a "so-called asylum-seeker" involved in a hit-and-run accident that stuck in your mind more because it annoyed you so much? Sorry I don't keep back copies of newspapers... and yes the example was very selective... and yes it has stuck in my mind... and yes it did annoy me... VERY MUCH! The piece of shit that killed her is safe and well.
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Post by Tubes on Feb 6, 2012 18:35:58 GMT
So list these MANY other cases. Then provide some examples of where the human rights act has been beneficial, then show me why you think it's a criminals charter on balance rather than a force for good. Is that an unreasonable request? You said it was a criminals charter. You presumably formed this conclusion based on a balanced look at all the evidence? Or was it just a selective example of a "so-called asylum-seeker" involved in a hit-and-run accident that stuck in your mind more because it annoyed you so much? Sorry I don't keep back copies of newspapers... and yes the example was very selective... and yes it has stuck in my mind... and yes it did annoy me... VERY MUCH! The piece of shit that killed her is safe and well. Blaming the Human Rights Act for him not being deported is blatantly untrue. www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/geoffrey-bindman/defend-human-rights-act-aso-mohammed-ibrahim-case-shows-need-for-strong-
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 19:35:56 GMT
So list these MANY other cases. Then provide some examples of where the human rights act has been beneficial, then show me why you think it's a criminals charter on balance rather than a force for good. Is that an unreasonable request? You said it was a criminals charter. You presumably formed this conclusion based on a balanced look at all the evidence? Or was it just a selective example of a "so-called asylum-seeker" involved in a hit-and-run accident that stuck in your mind more because it annoyed you so much? Sorry I don't keep back copies of newspapers... and yes the example was very selective... and yes it has stuck in my mind... and yes it did annoy me... VERY MUCH! The piece of shit that killed her is safe and well. No further questions, m'lud
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Post by salopstick on Feb 6, 2012 19:47:46 GMT
luke my view is anything but limited i cant be arsed to trawl the newspapers wether left, right or the daily mail to find the bad stories. just like benefits there will always be abuse that people focus on. it doesnt help reading stories where criminals sue because it is their human right to have some luxury in prison (or other similar stories) most of these modern treaties and european legislation seem to be signed as a good idea at the time until you read the small print then you find that in this instance, the HRA ends up being used as a tool against the spirit in which it was intended. when you criminals using HRA for their own means you can see why folk will refer it as a criminal's charter all this press privacy gets my goat too, if you live your life through the press dont complain when they print a story they want kept quiet. Al, with all due respect, I think that just illustrates the lack of depth of reasoning that the Mail was on about with right-wingers. You're right - there will be benefits abuses, there will be human rights act 'abuses' but these, as you agree, are the minority of cases compared to the overwhelming majority of decent benefits claimants and 'good' uses of the HRA. So why are the rightwingers on here apparently unable to get beyond these few cases and conclude that it's a criminals charter if not for the reasons in that study? Tony Pulis is a shit manager because we've lost our last two home games, never mind the last five years. pulis ball isnt the best analogy to use luke, because when it works its ace when it doesnt its dire, pulis is an average championship managerat best that through luck, hard work and peter coates has managed to succeed. i dont get too down about losing a few games because over the season we will do ok the problem with benefits abuse and the HRA we dont get to see the sucesses, the cases where genuine people are helped all we see in the papers, news and other media are the bad cases, the cheats, the scumbags getting around the law unless you work in both industries you wont know of ALL the good things both do and will ultimately form opinions from all media reports.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 10:05:41 GMT
I can see that you are aware of that as an issue, Al, ie that you don't see reported the stories where someone on benefits has been kept afloat/alive/sane until they got back into work or recovered from illness, yet the papers love to make a fuss about benefits abuses.
Yes, these abuses exist, they probably always will do, no govt has ever managed to eradicate them. But the overwhelming majority of benefits go to people who deserve and need them due to their circumstances.
Do you not feel a bit daft that the papers/tv/radio whatever are jerking your strings so obviously? Knowing that, does it not make you less likely to jump on the benefits bashing bandwagon?
I'm not saying do nothing about benefits abuses, I'm just tired of seeing the same old knee-jerk bollocks from posters on here and elsewhere (often but not exclusively rightwingers) whenever some form of political thread appears which basically lays the blame for our financial problems (among other things) on, for example, "Labour handing out free money to workshy scroungers". Exactly the kind of shite reasoning that study was on about.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 7, 2012 14:04:24 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16918110Actually it appears Labour have been handing out free money to pretty much everyone ;D £10.9billion written off in unpaid tax £131.5 billion in PFI liabilities for assets worth £30.9 billion I'd be grateful for some superior reasoning from a lefty to tell us what a good deal it really was and how this was all the bankers fault.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 14:15:03 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16918110Actually it appears Labour have been handing out free money to pretty much everyone ;D £10.9billion written off in unpaid tax £131.5 billion in PFI liabilities for assets worth £30.9 billion I'd be grateful for some superior reasoning from a lefty to tell us what a good deal it really was and how this was all the bankers fault. Why would anyone from the Left say unpaid tax is a good thing? PFI - sounds much like a mortgage to me. Most ordinary folk can end up paying as much or more than their house is actually worth but get to enjoy the benefits of living in it in the meantime. But just to be clear one more time, I'd much prefer PFI never existed and that hospitals schools etc were funded directly through taxation (properly collected taxation ) Why would anyone blame the bankers for those two examples? Strange post, FYD.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 7, 2012 14:24:48 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16918110Actually it appears Labour have been handing out free money to pretty much everyone ;D £10.9billion written off in unpaid tax £131.5 billion in PFI liabilities for assets worth £30.9 billion I'd be grateful for some superior reasoning from a lefty to tell us what a good deal it really was and how this was all the bankers fault. Once again you labour under the misapprehension that the last labour administration was "left wing" The topic of this thread was made for folk like you matey.
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Post by mermaidsal on Feb 7, 2012 14:31:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 14:47:09 GMT
What these stats say to me is, a really bright guy like salop is eventually bound to see the light and end up Left of Centre Why not, he's open to reason that's for sure.
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