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Post by Stokie Mcpot on Nov 2, 2011 17:34:57 GMT
Good post, certainly a realistic and open minded perspective rather than a lot of the shit we've been posting on here since monday
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 2, 2011 18:49:21 GMT
That's a very good, fair post (not quoting it all here because of how long it is).
I've not seen a manager tactically suss us out like that for quite a while, Man City in the Cup Final asides. Everything we had going for us, you had sussed out. I did think we were a bit unlucky with how the ball dropped in the box from set pieces, but other than that you countered us perfectly. Crouch was dealt with effectively, meaning that Walters was left completely isolated and unable to make an impact. The lack of threat down the centre allowed your players to then focus on our wingers. It wasn't just that they were doubled up on - Guthrie was deployed expertly, given the job of following the ball and tripling up on whichever winger was in possession. The reason that we appeared to be playing for throw-ins, and probably were playing for throw-ins, was that our wingers simply couldn't escape the attentions of Newcastle's players for long enough to get a decent cross in.
With our attacking play dealt with, you seemed quite happy to just play on the counter. I think you must only have had three attacks? Again, you may have been a little lucky because our defending was uncharacteristically woeful, but you did the job that was required of you and there can't really be any complaints about that. I was bloody sick at the end of the game to have lost in what must be our worst defeat since the Arsenal game now infamous for the Cesc Fabregas horror assault on Danny Pugh in the 95th minute, but I can certainly respect the tactical aspect of Newcastle's game that brought them the win.
You make a fair point about Huth and the aerial threat. Nobody knows what's going on there, but we sure as hell missed him at centre-back and in your penalty area on the set pieces. He's just one of a few little mysteries in team selection that we don't quite understand. Many can't understand £10,000,000 on Crouch, who has had decent games but who doesn't look as much of a good fit in our system as Jones. Leaving Huth out as fourth choice centre-back and second choice right back is even more baffling.
With regard to your comments on the long throws, now. They're normally not our only weapon, just another way of turning the screw and keeping the pressure on the opposition. Unfortunately, you'd countered absolutely every other aspect of our game. We couldn't get down the flanks with the wingers, we couldn't get through the middle, we didn't have Fuller to bring on, we'd had to use two of our substitutions in the first half. The best we could do was just get as far into your half as possible and hope to win a set piece. It was bloody frustrating from our perspective too. Believe me though, Delap is far from a wasted position in our team. Presumably some bile spitting maniac will be along in a minute with the usual tosh about him being a League 2 player with a very good set of arms and so on, but he performs a valuable role in our side and gets nowhere near the credit he deserves. For example, there's no end of hysterics about his 8 wayward passes on Monday night, but absolutely nothing about how he dealt successfully with some of Whelan's suicidal passes into danger, or how he spent most of the first half effectively playing in defence in order to steady things after the second goal went in and we were all at sea. He's also a damn good foil for whoever he plays alongside and the partnership between him and Whelan was responsible for at least a part of our upturn in form last season. I look forward to seeing him alongside Palacios, when he's finally fit.
The narrow pitch generally helps us. Don't forget that until you rolled up, we'd lost one home game in all of 2011. Would you have been able to close down our wingers the same on a big pitch? Tough call. Maybe. Probably. It's not like we get any extra success down the flanks when they both play in away games. Towards the end of last season we were playing our strongest team in away games and still only coming away with draws (Villa, Blackpool) or narrow defeats (Tottenham - which we were very lucky to keep respectable).
Finally, the Europa League. Again, it's tough to say whether or not it's taking it's toll. We were stupid to agree to play the game on Monday night with an away trip to Tel Aviv on Thursday. That is, of course, assuming that we had any say in the matter. The thing is though, the European teams that we have played have all been utter dross. Hajduk Split were probably about a Championship level side, certainly nothing more than that. We beat them home and away without even finishing our pre-season preparations. Thun were even worse than them, and Maccabbi Tel-Aviv were just laughably poor. Apparently they're formidable at home, so we'll have to see about that. From what we saw at The Brit, though, I'd say that they'd struggle to perform at League Two level, quite seriously. Until Jerome was sent off, I was expecting double figures. Besiktas are the only team that looked like they might be able to survive in the Premier League, but I'd say that would be far from a given. I'm reserving comment on Kiev until I see them play here. I suspect that the biggest challenge that Europe offers is the reduced amount of time that we get to spend on the training ground, working on our shape and gelling the team together. That may be why we have a tendency to look disjointed at times. Look at our training schedule this week. We play Newcastle on the Monday night. The players may do some light training on Tuesday, before setting off for Tel Aviv today. They may have some training tonight and tomorrow to get used to conditions, before playing the game. They'll arrive home on Friday and have a day and a bit to prepare to play Bolton. It's very, very difficult, in that respect.
I don't like Pardew, but he deserves a lot of credit. Your side look very, very good.
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Post by sutekh on Nov 2, 2011 20:06:04 GMT
This has to be the biggest load of pretentious crap that i've had the misfortune to read. Anyone who knows owt about footy knows that pardew is a brain dead cnut who knows fuck all about tactics and just got lucky on the night. Also anyone who thinks differently should fuck off up the vale imo.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 2, 2011 20:15:01 GMT
I think that you are doing very well, not sure what is happening behind the scenes at St James but Hughton and now Pardew are doing you proud . Some shrewd tactics and signings and a great work ethic , in the first half you outworked us and not many do that at the Brit , thought we defended badly on all of the goals which is not like us normally and the exclusion of Huth is a mystery to 99% of Stoke fans . Good luck until the return game
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Post by knype on Nov 2, 2011 20:27:16 GMT
I didnt think that Newcastle were that good tbh and they didnt need to be, it was our worst performance IMO since we came into the Premiership, and that egotistical prick Pardew wont be laughing when the fat rent boy Ashley wants him gone when it goes tits up!
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Nov 2, 2011 22:30:40 GMT
Don't give Newcastle too much praise okay they closed down our wingers, they aren't the first team to do that to us. With our lack of forward momentum in central midfield it is essential that we have pace up front and for some reason TP wrongly thinks that Crouch is the answer, the pace and strength of either Jones or Jerome would have given Pardew much more to think about. Then remember we had two forced defensive substitutions which meant that TP was even more reluctant to make a change than usual. Newcastle couldn't have had it any easier. We need to get back to playing our strongest defence, forget Woodgate who is not physically up to the job and stop pissing about with the Huthmeister and put him back where he is at his most efficient. Up front it should be a combination of Walters, Jones & Jerome especially away from home where pace on the break is even more essential. Let's get someone in our central midfield, Wilson or Palacios who can make an accurate forward pass to make best use of Jones, Jerome or Walters, let's have them running at defences instead of the usual casual lump forward in hope.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2011 23:29:39 GMT
Excellent post Andy. In truth its taken until tonight to get that performance out of my system and I've hardly read a snippet of the reviews and unfollowed every north east journo on twatter Newcastle really impressed me with their overall play and closing down. On the night I didn't think that Begovic was troubled much and that was proven by the stats - 2 shots and 2 goals (pens don't count). You took your chances though. Ba (what sort of reception did he expect to get when he cupped his ear to the boothen) is a goal machine, Obertan ripped Wilson a new arsehole and Gutierrez had Pennant in his back pocket all game. Our wingers are not on form at the moment and I'm sure Woodgate (please get injured soon) thought he was playing for you still! Top 10 finish - very doubtful. Bolton who most believe are playing crap, can go to within 3 points of us on Sunday That said, our next 4 games of Bolton, QPR, Blackburn & everton compared to your next 4 of Everton, the 2 man utd's (according to talk sport ) and chelsea will give us a better picture of where we will both finish? Good luck for the season.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2011 23:32:15 GMT
Good post and how refreshing to see someones else's opinion on Delap's contribution to the team. How refreshing to see how you chose to highlight our weaknesses in this this respect , by calling his inclusion as 'criminal'. I for one have been saying this for some time.
It's just a shame that others can't see this for themselves. Rory has been a great servant to this club but sometimes in life you have to put your blinkered emotions to one side and move on....He is fast becoming the weakest link and his successfull pass ratio on a parr with Stevie Wonders.
Once again an excellent and fair appraisal from a independent witness.
mumf.
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Post by gb on Nov 2, 2011 23:35:14 GMT
Newcastle were a far better side on monday but I'm sure Newcastle will finish below Stoke in the league , can anyone remember Blackpool last season. Blackpool were in a similar position and being aplauded by the media but it didn't do them much good after the new year . I think Newcastle will sink like a stone once their bubble has burst .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2011 23:38:06 GMT
Good post and how refreshing to see someones else's opinion on Delap's contribution to the team. How refreshing to see how you chose to highlight our weaknesses in this this respect , by calling his inclusion as 'criminal'. I for one have been saying this for some time. It's just a shame that others can't see this for themselves. Rory has been a great servant to this club but sometimes in life you have to put your blinkered emotions to one side and move on....He is fast becoming the weakest link and his successfull pass ratio on a parr with Stevie Wonders. Delap was far better than Whelan. And generally always is Once again an excellent and fair appraisal from a independent witness. mumf.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2011 23:47:34 GMT
Prestwich potter....
Could you kindly remove your modification to my post in the interests of fair play and speak for yourself .
mumf
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Post by shiftyfifty on Nov 2, 2011 23:55:47 GMT
Pardew as much as I dislike him deserves all the credit, he really did his homework. They outplayed us in every department, beat us to every loose ball, and were way to fast on the break for our dodgy defence. They were unrecognisable from the side we bossed around last season, and had an answer for everything we threw at them. Like most I don't think they'll finish in the top six, but fair play to them.
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Post by prem4stoke on Nov 3, 2011 0:32:16 GMT
Your spot on but also you were very lucky a very frustrating game for me and well done for that. We had 12 shots off target to your 6 and we also had 3 on target to your 3 we also had 56% possession. These stats are what we normally have in reverse so you did a Stoke on Stoke and that was after your manager wouldn't play the Stoke way. Anyway well done and I hope Pulis will learn how we can resurrect our game to better effect but I think luck really was against us.
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Orfuss
Youth Player
Who wants some?
Posts: 441
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Post by Orfuss on Nov 3, 2011 0:53:43 GMT
Can't really add to what's already been said. I would like to point out I was complimenting newcastle when I made the point that you quoted, please don't take it any other way!
Fact of the matter is, Stoke main attacking threat is down the wings, newcastle realised with a lack of attacking full backs and midfield you could double/triple up on our wingers and god did it show how stifled we can be.
Well played Newcastle, you've improved alot. Lets hope Pulis learns lessons from this!
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Post by andyeswecan on Nov 3, 2011 9:32:45 GMT
Thanks for the opinions guys.
"Finally, the Europa League. Again, it's tough to say whether or not it's taking it's toll. We were stupid to agree to play the game on Monday night with an away trip to Tel Aviv on Thursday. That is, of course, assuming that we had any say in the matter."
I was going to comment on that.
I think the fixture list has been disgraceful to Stoke.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that you have been given away games following every Europa League game?
And having to play a Premier League game on a Monday before travelling to Israel on the Thursday?
Can you see the Premier League ever expecting Man Utd or Chelsea to entertain that situation?
Not. A. Chance.
Good luck tonight.
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Nov 3, 2011 9:39:54 GMT
Thanks for the opinions guys. "Finally, the Europa League. Again, it's tough to say whether or not it's taking it's toll. We were stupid to agree to play the game on Monday night with an away trip to Tel Aviv on Thursday. That is, of course, assuming that we had any say in the matter." I was going to comment on that. I think the fixture list has been disgraceful to Stoke. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that you have been given away games following every Europa League game? And having to play a Premier League game on a Monday before travelling to Israel on the Thursday? Can you see the Premier League ever expecting Man Utd or Chelsea to entertain that situation? Not. A. Chance. Good luck tonight. Cheers. It is always good to have friendly posters from opposition teams on here. Gives us a different perspective as it can get (very) inward-looking on here. We have had some great posters on here from Hull, Sunderland, Tottenham, etc. It would be good if you could carry on posting here throughout the season. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 9:43:59 GMT
On a slightly different note I thought Newcastle's away following of around 1,200 or so was a real indication of fans feeling the squeeze in the current climate. I know it was live on SKY but I would have fully expected them to sell out (and that is not a dig as I know how expensive it has become).
I know some have been critical of our away followings on here but apart from a few teams it seems everyone is suffering.........
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Post by geordielad on Nov 3, 2011 10:15:50 GMT
This has to be the biggest load of pretentious crap that i've had the misfortune to read. Anyone who knows owt about footy knows that pardew is a brain dead cnut who knows fuck all about tactics and just got lucky on the night. Also anyone who thinks differently should fuck off up the vale imo. If pardew is a brain dead cnut who knows fuck all about tactics, then what does that say for your beloved Stoke and Pulis? Pardew 1-0 Pulis You obviously arent like most Stoke fans on here who come with a balanced view and can see how 'luckily' Pardew nullified your threat of wingers by doubling up, left our playmaker on the edge of the box for your long throws and our pace player up top so we can quickly counter the threat. How we closed down every single pass instantly in the first half and once we got the 2 goal lead we let you have the ball and again went back to the counter attack, using Besty to hold the ball up and give us breathers. Apart from that, yes, we were shit
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Post by andyeswecan on Nov 3, 2011 10:47:42 GMT
On a slightly different note I thought Newcastle's away following of around 1,200 or so was a real indication of fans feeling the squeeze in the current climate. Perhaps. We had well over 5,000 down at Blackburn in mid-week and it's likely that 2 trips in a week is a big ask financially.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 10:51:54 GMT
On a slightly different note I thought Newcastle's away following of around 1,200 or so was a real indication of fans feeling the squeeze in the current climate. Perhaps. We had well over 5,000 down at Blackburn in mid-week and it's likely that 2 trips in a week is a big ask financially. I agree financially it's tough and that was my point it's the poorest Newcastle following I've seen for a while. Completely understandable in the current climate..............
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Post by matisfaction on Nov 3, 2011 13:40:24 GMT
Pardew as much as I dislike him deserves all the credit, he really did his homework. They outplayed us in every department, beat us to every loose ball, and were way to fast on the break for our dodgy defence. They were unrecognisable from the side we bossed around last season, and had an answer for everything we threw at them. Like most I don't think they'll finish in the top six, but fair play to them. Before everyone starts calling Pardew a "tactical Genius", bear in mind that: Newcastle's first goal was actually offside. It was a fairly routine call that the linesman missed. The second goal was a miss cue from Best that fell to Ba. The third was a bit of a soft penalty, before this they were hanging on to slim 1-2 advantage. That was their three shots on target during the entire game. Other teams (including Chelsea) have come to the Brit, used the same tactics and haven't been anywhere near as successful. Fair play to Newcastle, they came out with a strategy, they stuck to it and as with most teams that are on a good run, got the "rub of the green" some what. The Stoke performance was flat on Monday, same as it was against Fulham and also Blackpool last season, Newcastle did exactly the same, they got their noses in front and managed to hold out. This tactical masterstroke by Pardew is a bit of myth in all honesty.
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Post by NassauDave on Nov 3, 2011 14:04:46 GMT
Well written and intelligent post. Absolutely spot on too soory to say.
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Post by sutekh on Nov 3, 2011 15:16:58 GMT
This has to be the biggest load of pretentious crap that i've had the misfortune to read. Anyone who knows owt about footy knows that pardew is a brain dead cnut who knows fuck all about tactics and just got lucky on the night. Also anyone who thinks differently should fuck off up the vale imo. If pardew is a brain dead cnut who knows fuck all about tactics, then what does that say for your beloved Stoke and Pulis? Pardew 1-0 Pulis You obviously arent like most Stoke fans on here who come with a balanced view and can see how 'luckily' Pardew nullified your threat of wingers by doubling up, left our playmaker on the edge of the box for your long throws and our pace player up top so we can quickly counter the threat. How we closed down every single pass instantly in the first half and once we got the 2 goal lead we let you have the ball and again went back to the counter attack, using Besty to hold the ball up and give us breathers. Apart from that, yes, we were shit The above was actually a dig at some of the numptys on here fella who claimed pardew to be tactically brain dead not my own personal view but you obviously did'nt understand. I posted on a previous thread that pardew did his homework and got it dead right and that the toon thoroughly deserved their win and i still stand by that
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