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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2011 13:17:25 GMT
Carew used to be a better player?
Can't really see how that helps your argument.
I like Jaffa Cakes. Not sure that's really relevant either.
When we had Carew he was past his best, deemed unwanted by his current club, didn't do a great deal for us, wasn't considered good enough to keep hold of despite only having 2 fit strikers on the books and has now dropped out of the league.
I'd like to see Crouch given a run with Jones before I pass judgement on how it works.
I certainly won't rule it out based on what Carew did.
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Post by stokelad84 on Sept 5, 2011 13:22:07 GMT
Carew was unfit, Jones had zero confidence and we never had two fit wingers playing.
Three plain reasons why the two big men didn't work last season.
Other reasons why it may work this season: Whitehead was in the middle instead of Palacios. Then there was no Wilson or Woodgate distributing from the back...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 5, 2011 13:24:55 GMT
Erm because he's a better, similar player, it should have made the system work a bit better? We misused Carew criminally I thought, just hoofing balls up to him and partnering him with a similar type of player. It's why I don't think Crouch and KJ will work. Its not as easy as just chucking Your two best strikers together, it needs balance. Maybe it will work, we will have to wait and see but the trepidation has to be there with the shite suffered with similar players playing similar roles in the past. I'm not ruling it out, I've said all along that we have to wait and see!
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Post by Gods on Sept 5, 2011 13:26:58 GMT
Of course You can, similar players and similar ages and both will be used in the same way I would of thought. Carew is probably the better player over the years as well. Yes
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Post by fentonstokie on Sept 5, 2011 13:27:02 GMT
If Crouch and Jones do get paired together Jones his going have to improve his work rate thats for sure.
Jones and Walters worked so well cause Walters did most of Jones's running for him.
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Post by rorymscfc on Sept 5, 2011 13:27:28 GMT
If Mr P keeps to his normal modus operandi, KJ will most likely be on the bench given his international duties. Suspect we will start with Crouch and Waltersfor the next game. Agree with this.
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Post by swampySCFC on Sept 5, 2011 18:15:40 GMT
Its an exciting problem to have isnt it.
Im with Tone on this one, he usually makes the right decisions
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Post by larstoke on Sept 5, 2011 18:22:02 GMT
I'm pretty sure we'll see jerome, crouch and palacios (if fit) on the bench against liverpool. jones and walters up front. anticlimax if true, but seems like a pulis thing to do.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 5, 2011 18:24:48 GMT
We've got two good target men, so let's play them together up front.
We've got four centre-backs with good pedigree, so let's play all of them, too.
Oh, and I can't decide if Delap, Palacios, Whelan or Whitehead should play in the middle, so I'll just have all of them in midfield.
Our perfect team is clearly Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate, Upson, Delap, Whelan, Palacios, Whitehead, Jones, Crouch.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Sept 5, 2011 19:09:30 GMT
I think he will use Crouch and Jones together and I think it will work to a degree, it obviously will because they are both good players and a certain element of it will click through default. I don't think it will be the best pairing at all though. I just don't see it as black and white as some on here are suggesting. It's not as simple as "don't play Crouch and Jones together because it won't work at all - ever". Look at the strikers individually and try and match them together. Jones - Strong in the air, weaker on the deck, decent mobility, inconsistent work rate. Crouch - Good in the air in the box, good with his feet, limited mobility, good finisher. Walters - Decent in the air, hard worker, decent pace, good mobility, good finisher. Jerome - Decent in the air, hard worker, electric pace, good mobility, erratic finisher. Crouch + WaltersBoth players give you good finishing, both give decent aerial ability outside the box, with Crouch giving good aerial ability in the box and Walters compliments Crouch's lack of mobility with a decent level of pace. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. Crouch + JeromeCrouch gives you the good finishing, with Jerome quite erratic, both are decent in the air outside the box, Jerome is very athletic and will compliment Crouch perfectly in that respect with outstanding pace. Jerome will also provide a super out ball down the flanks and will provide another angle of service for our wide men with the ability to pull wide, out pace defenders and lay the ball back into the channels. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4, home or away. In particular teams who struggle against pace. Jones + WaltersA partnership we know all about. Erratic workrate from Jones is complimented by our Duracell bunny. Walters giving us the better finishing on the deck, Jones being lethal in the air. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. Jones + JeromePerfectly complimenting work rate - Jerome consistent and Jones inconsistent. Both a bit dodgy on the ground, Jones excellent in the air, Jerome decent. Both mobile with excellent pace from Jerome. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. In particular teams who struggle against height AND pace. Walters + JeromeBoth will run the channels, both decent in the air, both mobile and Jerome with excellent pace. Useful scenario - Away from home against a Top 4 team. Both full backs will be out and both players' natural games will expose that. They will both run the channels for fun. May help to compensate our lack of ball retention in certain games. Crouch + JonesVery good aerial ability, decent mobility from Jones, limited from Crouch, erratic workrate from Jones but both very good in the air in the box. Useful scenario - some may say never, but I think this will be a useful partnership in either softening some teams up, with Walters and Jerome to run the legs off them later on OR against lower in the table opposition late on in games if they are very tight and we need a penalty area bombardment from all angles as teams sit deep. Please feel free to amend as you see fit!
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Post by frank63 on Sept 5, 2011 19:27:56 GMT
Options we haven't had any this season.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2011 20:28:48 GMT
Isnt it brilliant that we are all scratching our heads and wandering which strikers to play .If you had told me 5 years ago we could come up to premiership and stay there ,get to an fa cup final and qualify for europe i would have been delighted .We have come so far !!!!! Crouchy is an awesome signing and will be a huge success for us SUPER STOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 5, 2011 20:40:13 GMT
I think he will use Crouch and Jones together and I think it will work to a degree, it obviously will because they are both good players and a certain element of it will click through default. I don't think it will be the best pairing at all though. I just don't see it as black and white as some on here are suggesting. It's not as simple as "don't play Crouch and Jones together because it won't work at all - ever". Look at the strikers individually and try and match them together. Jones - Strong in the air, weaker on the deck, decent mobility, inconsistent work rate. Crouch - Good in the air in the box, good with his feet, limited mobility, good finisher. Walters - Decent in the air, hard worker, decent pace, good mobility, good finisher. Jerome - Decent in the air, hard worker, electric pace, good mobility, erratic finisher. Crouch + WaltersBoth players give you good finishing, both give decent aerial ability outside the box, with Crouch giving good aerial ability in the box and Walters compliments Crouch's lack of mobility with a decent level of pace. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. Crouch + JeromeCrouch gives you the good finishing, with Jerome quite erratic, both are decent in the air outside the box, Jerome is very athletic and will compliment Crouch perfectly in that respect with outstanding pace. Jerome will also provide a super out ball down the flanks and will provide another angle of service for our wide men with the ability to pull wide, out pace defenders and lay the ball back into the channels. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4, home or away. In particular teams who struggle against pace. Jones + WaltersA partnership we know all about. Erratic workrate from Jones is complimented by our Duracell bunny. Walters giving us the better finishing on the deck, Jones being lethal in the air. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. Jones + JeromePerfectly complimenting work rate - Jerome consistent and Jones inconsistent. Both a bit dodgy on the ground, Jones excellent in the air, Jerome decent. Both mobile with excellent pace from Jerome. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. In particular teams who struggle against height AND pace. Walters + JeromeBoth will run the channels, both decent in the air, both mobile and Jerome with excellent pace. Useful scenario - Away from home against a Top 4 team. Both full backs will be out and both players' natural games will expose that. They will both run the channels for fun. May help to compensate our lack of ball retention in certain games. Crouch + JonesVery good aerial ability, decent mobility from Jones, limited from Crouch, erratic workrate from Jones but both very good in the air in the box. Useful scenario - some may say never, but I think this will be a useful partnership in either softening some teams up, with Walters and Jerome to run the legs off them later on OR against lower in the table opposition late on in games if they are very tight and we need a penalty area bombardment from all angles as teams sit deep. Please feel free to amend as you see fit! That's an excellent, well thought out post.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 5, 2011 22:02:34 GMT
Just listening to the podcast with Martin Spinks - and he suggests Jones won't be back at the club until Friday after a second game for Trinidad this midweek, so he's flagging up the possibility of a Crouch start, with Jones potentially on the bench.
So could be Crouch/Walters gets the first chance to fire?
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Post by lordb on Sept 6, 2011 11:09:09 GMT
I think he will use Crouch and Jones together and I think it will work to a degree, it obviously will because they are both good players and a certain element of it will click through default. I don't think it will be the best pairing at all though. I just don't see it as black and white as some on here are suggesting. It's not as simple as "don't play Crouch and Jones together because it won't work at all - ever". Look at the strikers individually and try and match them together. Jones - Strong in the air, weaker on the deck, decent mobility, inconsistent work rate. Crouch - Good in the air in the box, good with his feet, limited mobility, good finisher. Walters - Decent in the air, hard worker, decent pace, good mobility, good finisher. Jerome - Decent in the air, hard worker, electric pace, good mobility, erratic finisher. Crouch + WaltersBoth players give you good finishing, both give decent aerial ability outside the box, with Crouch giving good aerial ability in the box and Walters compliments Crouch's lack of mobility with a decent level of pace. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. Crouch + JeromeCrouch gives you the good finishing, with Jerome quite erratic, both are decent in the air outside the box, Jerome is very athletic and will compliment Crouch perfectly in that respect with outstanding pace. Jerome will also provide a super out ball down the flanks and will provide another angle of service for our wide men with the ability to pull wide, out pace defenders and lay the ball back into the channels. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4, home or away. In particular teams who struggle against pace. Jones + WaltersA partnership we know all about. Erratic workrate from Jones is complimented by our Duracell bunny. Walters giving us the better finishing on the deck, Jones being lethal in the air. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. Jones + JeromePerfectly complimenting work rate - Jerome consistent and Jones inconsistent. Both a bit dodgy on the ground, Jones excellent in the air, Jerome decent. Both mobile with excellent pace from Jerome. Useful scenario - Any team outside the Top 4 at home or away. In particular teams who struggle against height AND pace. Walters + JeromeBoth will run the channels, both decent in the air, both mobile and Jerome with excellent pace. Useful scenario - Away from home against a Top 4 team. Both full backs will be out and both players' natural games will expose that. They will both run the channels for fun. May help to compensate our lack of ball retention in certain games. Crouch + JonesVery good aerial ability, decent mobility from Jones, limited from Crouch, erratic workrate from Jones but both very good in the air in the box. Useful scenario - some may say never, but I think this will be a useful partnership in either softening some teams up, with Walters and Jerome to run the legs off them later on OR against lower in the table opposition late on in games if they are very tight and we need a penalty area bombardment from all angles as teams sit deep. Please feel free to amend as you see fit! excellent
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Post by thestatusquo on Sept 6, 2011 12:27:23 GMT
I haven't seen it mentioned here but I can't help feeling that Kitson was a "poor mans" Crouch. Arguably both better with their feet than in the air. Neither are particularly mobile. I just really hoping that it doesn't end up like that with a player trying to play in a formation that simply does not suit him. I used to get to see Man City a bit the season before last. Spurs needed to beat Man City to get into the CL. It's the best I've seen Crouch play. Very little was in the air most was played into his feet with midfield players supporting him quickly. We do not play that way. Even at 6'7" Crouch is not particularly stong in the air. His height will cause problems and given the freedom of the box he can score as he did against us but I think most Prem defences have him sussed which probably explains why he does scored for England but not so much against teams that are used to dealing with him. I really hope it works out for us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 12:34:41 GMT
We've got two good target men, so let's play them together up front. We've got four centre-backs with good pedigree, so let's play all of them, too. Oh, and I can't decide if Delap, Palacios, Whelan or Whitehead should play in the middle, so I'll just have all of them in midfield. Our perfect team is clearly Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate, Upson, Delap, Whelan, Palacios, Whitehead, Jones, Crouch. I can't agree with that. Ethers and Pennant are vital to how we play.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Sept 6, 2011 12:47:56 GMT
I really do fancy the idea of Crouch and Walters on Saturday. My only reservation is that Walters has looked 'buggered' in recent games but he's had a break now and I suspect him and Crouch would work great together. Long term, I haven't a clue because we really do have options now but I won't be at all disappointed if Crouch and Walters line up on Saturday.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 12:52:11 GMT
Walters needs a rest.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Sept 6, 2011 12:58:35 GMT
Agree mate, he's looked knackered but he will have had two weeks off and we've signed two players to rival him for a place in the team. Expect SJW to produce the goods on Saturday.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 6, 2011 13:00:14 GMT
We've got two good target men, so let's play them together up front. We've got four centre-backs with good pedigree, so let's play all of them, too. Oh, and I can't decide if Delap, Palacios, Whelan or Whitehead should play in the middle, so I'll just have all of them in midfield. Our perfect team is clearly Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate, Upson, Delap, Whelan, Palacios, Whitehead, Jones, Crouch. You are joking right? If not then that is an absolutely unbelievable statement and i'd have to question if you have been watching Stoke at all over the past 3 years or so ;D Etherington and Pennant are everything to our team...they dont play and we inevitably lose. As i say if you are joking about Delap on the right and Whitehead on the left then fine, although its a pretty horrifying joke ! As for Jones and Crouch up front, again i think its a partnership made in hell, severe lack of mobility, Carew and Jones v West Brom spring to mind. Walters and Jones havent been great this season. Its ok saying Jones is our top scorer with 1 in 3 league games, but the reality is, barring the last 20 minutes at Norwich he has been absolutely abysmal and extremely depressing to watch. Sorry Kenwyne have a rest son. Lets see what Crouchy and Cameron can offer us !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 13:03:25 GMT
We've got two good target men, so let's play them together up front. We've got four centre-backs with good pedigree, so let's play all of them, too. Oh, and I can't decide if Delap, Palacios, Whelan or Whitehead should play in the middle, so I'll just have all of them in midfield. Our perfect team is clearly Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, Woodgate, Upson, Delap, Whelan, Palacios, Whitehead, Jones, Crouch. You are joking right? If not then that is an absolutely unbelievable statement and i'd have to question if you have been watching Stoke at all over the past 3 years or so ;D Etherington and Pennant are everything to our team...they dont play and we inevitably lose. As i say if you are joking about Delap on the right and Whitehead on the left then fine, although its a pretty horrifying joke ! As for Jones and Crouch up front, again i think its a partnership made in hell, severe lack of mobility, Carew and Jones v West Brom spring to mind. He quite clearly is joking and is making the point that you don't just cram your players into the tea, because you can't decide which one's better. It's pretty obvious. Also, Jones has had an excellent start to the season in fairly difficult circumstances.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 6, 2011 13:05:44 GMT
Sorry MD I didnt read through your post well enough before dismissing it. I understand it now !
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 6, 2011 13:08:26 GMT
You are joking right? If not then that is an absolutely unbelievable statement and i'd have to question if you have been watching Stoke at all over the past 3 years or so ;D Etherington and Pennant are everything to our team...they dont play and we inevitably lose. As i say if you are joking about Delap on the right and Whitehead on the left then fine, although its a pretty horrifying joke ! As for Jones and Crouch up front, again i think its a partnership made in hell, severe lack of mobility, Carew and Jones v West Brom spring to mind. He quite clearly is joking and is making the point that you don't just cram your players into the tea, because you can't decide which one's better. It's pretty obvious. Also, Jones has had an excellent start to the season in fairly difficult circumstances. Thats a load of tripe Rob. At the Albion the other day it seemed I wasnt the only one who thought he'd been very poor. His control and footwork looks worse than last year. His heading ability is good when hes in front of goal but pretty poor when being used for accurate flick ons, hence we saw a lot of hoofs aimed at Walters against West Brom. It goes without saying Jones' anticipation is piss poor for a premier league striker costing £8 million. In fact, his anticipation looks worse than last season. Hes also a very uninspiring striker to watch. Come on Crouchy show him how its done
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 13:08:36 GMT
When a club of our size and stature spends around 20 Million on 2 strikers, its pretty safe to safe they will both get plenty of time on the pitch, which means they will most likely play a lot together.
Whether you think that is right or wrong or good for the team or not is up for debate but I think its pretty safe to say they’ll be given plenty of games together.
I’m looking forward to see how they combine and play together.
Exciting times.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 6, 2011 13:12:35 GMT
When a club of our size and stature spends around 20 Million on 2 strikers, its pretty safe to safe they will both get plenty of time on the pitch, which means they will most likely play a lot together. Whether you think that is right or wrong or good for the team or not is up for debate but I think its pretty safe to say they’ll be given plenty of games together. I’m looking forward to see how they combine and play together. Exciting times. Depends how it works in training. I guess if Pulis doesnt like the look of it in practice then hes no need to try it in games. I personally think we will see Crouch and Jerome being our main Premier League partnership, with Jerome often shifted out wide with Walters up top. Then I can see Jones becoming unhappy and potentially weighing up his options come January/May, which i certainly wont have a problem with ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 13:13:08 GMT
He quite clearly is joking and is making the point that you don't just cram your players into the tea, because you can't decide which one's better. It's pretty obvious. Also, Jones has had an excellent start to the season in fairly difficult circumstances. Thats a load of tripe Rob. At the Albion the other day it seemed I wasnt the only one who thought he'd been very poor. His control and footwork looks worse than last year. His heading ability is good when hes in front of goal but pretty poor when being used for accurate flick ons, hence we saw a lot of hoofs aimed at Walters against West Brom. It goes without saying Jones' anticipation is piss poor for a premier league striker costing £8 million. In fact, his anticipation looks worse than last season. Hes also a very uninspiring striker to watch. Come on Crouchy show him how its done A load of tripe that I'd be willing to bet a majority of Stoke fans agree with (the ones who aren't the anti-Jones brigade who never give him credit for anything apart). He's worked hard, he's got three goals already, he's held the ball up well, all despite being one of only two fit strikers at the club and away from home being completely isolated. Neither he nor Walters were great at West Brom but both are clearly exhausted and both were completely isolated because our wingers weren't at the races and, as you point out, we're not the same team when that's the case. Jones can be a waste of space, but he's done well so far this season. You seem to want players to be flawless demi-gods who pass other teams off the park. If they were, they wouldn't be playing for Stoke.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Sept 6, 2011 13:16:06 GMT
I'm happy to see how it pans out and it is difficult to argue with the point whydelilah makes. Of course we'll all have an opinion but I guess we can all agree that it's great having to debate these options when, until now, we've had two fit strikers available. Also, Jerome shouldn't be lightly dismissed in these equations despite his poor scoring record at Birmingham. He was played as a lone striker more often than not and they created bugger all for him. I suspect he will have a big part to play at Stoke. Add to that the possibility of Fuller returning to the fold and these are exciting times indeed.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 6, 2011 13:19:28 GMT
Thats a load of tripe Rob. At the Albion the other day it seemed I wasnt the only one who thought he'd been very poor. His control and footwork looks worse than last year. His heading ability is good when hes in front of goal but pretty poor when being used for accurate flick ons, hence we saw a lot of hoofs aimed at Walters against West Brom. It goes without saying Jones' anticipation is piss poor for a premier league striker costing £8 million. In fact, his anticipation looks worse than last season. Hes also a very uninspiring striker to watch. Come on Crouchy show him how its done A load of tripe that I'd be willing to bet a majority of Stoke fans agree with (the ones who aren't the anti-Jones brigade who never give him credit for anything apart). He's worked hard, he's got three goals already, he's held the ball up well, all despite being one of only two fit strikers at the club and away from home being completely isolated. Neither he nor Walters were great at West Brom but both are clearly exhausted and both were completely isolated because our wingers weren't at the races and, as you point out, we're not the same team when that's the case. Jones can be a waste of space, but he's done well so far this season. You seem to want players to be flawless demi-gods who pass other teams off the park. If they were, they wouldn't be playing for Stoke. I expect a lot more for a player costing £8 million. Controlling a ball and picking out a pass is not that difficult for a professional footballer. He creates nothing, his movement is woeful. I dont enjoy watching him play, i've made no secret of that on this board. Crouch is striker of the highest calibre, Walters and Jerome will offer the required pace alongside him. With Palacios in the midfield we have a fantastic team in the making (though we desperately need a back up winger and a left back but we can save that for January). There is no need to play Jones for the sake of playing him. He will hopefully be deemed too tired to play on Saturday because of his Trinidad trip so i feel confident we will see a lively pairing of Crouch and Walters/jerome, take your pick.
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Post by Gods on Sept 6, 2011 13:20:00 GMT
I think the more people see of Crouch the more they will like Jones.
I give it 2 games max before we start to hear of Crouch '...not very good in the air for a tall guy...doesn't work hard...no pace...doesn't have a trick...turns on an airfield...etc.'
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