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Post by Ddraigcoch on Sept 4, 2011 22:01:57 GMT
Without quality supply they wont get many chances other from set piece and pressure football. Crouch could create a few for Kenwyne though by giving him space, pulling defenders all ove the place...back post etc as somebody said before. Jones occupy the middle for the direct route and knock downs for Couchies tekescopic legs to hook onto.
Ethers needs to get his confidence back and be the player he showed us last season cos with him and JP operating on both wings we'll be flying. Double figures from both Kenwyne and Crouchie this season. Walters won't be shy either.
Happy Days.
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 4, 2011 22:03:49 GMT
Well its certainly a much better situation than having just Walters and Jones available whatever way they are played.
We'll actually have some players to turn to from the bench now too and hopefully we'll be seeing some sort of squad rotation with the amount of games we'll be playing
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 4, 2011 22:08:43 GMT
"playing Huth at right-back to accommodate the inferior Woodgate"
There is noone better than a fit Woodgate!
Pulis has improved our team year on year. He has improved it beyond recognition this season.
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Post by bogus on Sept 4, 2011 22:13:34 GMT
I certainly hope he starts them together when that De Gea bloke turns up. Especially if Vidic is still out  Generally, though, it's just great to have a few options and I could well see kenwyne and Crouchie starting, to give them a roughing up, with Walters and Jerome appearing later, to run at tired defences. I'm looking forward to seeing any 2 of the four, to be honest. |
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Post by Ddraigcoch on Sept 4, 2011 22:19:58 GMT
I certainly hope he starts them together when that De Gea bloke turns up. Especially if Vidic is still out Generally, though, it's just great to have a few options and I could well see kenwyne and Crouchie starting, to give tem a roughing up, with Walters and Jerome appearing later, to run at tired defences. I'm looking forward to seeing any 2 of the four, to be honest. I hear you....Jeromes' pace to turn defences keeping a high line...run those channels dude! A little slice of set piece heaven.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:23:28 GMT
"playing Huth at right-back to accommodate the inferior Woodgate" There is noone better than a fit Woodgate! Pulis has improved our team year on year. He has improved it beyond recognition this season. Yet Huth is a poor right back and we look more vulnerable at the back than we did at the back end of last season. My fear is that we're going to go back to relying exclusively on set pieces rather than the poor mixed, fluid stuff we were playing at our best at the end of last season, with two full backs who could do ok getting forward and two mobile players up top. |
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Post by Ddraigcoch on Sept 4, 2011 22:29:24 GMT
"playing Huth at right-back to accommodate the inferior Woodgate" There is noone better than a fit Woodgate! Pulis has improved our team year on year. He has improved it beyond recognition this season. Yet Huth is a poor right back and we look more vulnerable at the back than we did at the back end of last season. My fear is that we're going to go back to relying exclusively on set pieces rather than the poor mixed, fluid stuff we were playing at our best at the end of last season, with two full backs who could do ok getting forward and two mobile players up top. Possession stats will be better this season but on balance they may be better with Wilko at right back especially home. Good link up play from him as he gets more confident with JP.....at the very least you can see the intention is there. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2011 22:31:21 GMT
On paper it's an horrific idea and one that I don't think will work and I don't particularly want to see it but think we will.
But paper never won a football game as they say, so we shall see how it works. Hopefully it is the dream ticket.
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Post by bogus on Sept 4, 2011 22:32:30 GMT
"playing Huth at right-back to accommodate the inferior Woodgate" There is noone better than a fit Woodgate! Pulis has improved our team year on year. He has improved it beyond recognition this season. Yet Huth is a poor right back and we look more vulnerable at the back than we did at the back end of last season.My fear is that we're going to go back to relying exclusively on set pieces rather than the poor mixed, fluid stuff we were playing at our best at the end of last season, with two full backs who could do ok getting forward and two mobile players up top. Out of interest, why do you say that we look more vulnerable at the back now? We've only conceded 2 goals in 7 competitive games and 1 of those was against Thun, when Wilko was playing there. Seems to me it's tightened up a bit, tho it stops us from getting forward a little on the right. |
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Post by Ddraigcoch on Sept 4, 2011 22:36:04 GMT
On paper it's an horrific idea and one that I don't think will work and I don't particularly want to see it but think we will. But paper never won a football game as they say, so we shall see how it works. Hopefully it is the dream ticket. Its the classic double bluff though as well.....oppo defences playin for the long punt may just play into our hands in terms of space in front or behind their defence. Nice headache for the centre halves getting pulled around the pitch....test their discipline. |
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 4, 2011 22:36:26 GMT
"Yet Huth is a poor right back and we look more vulnerable at the back than we did at the back end of last season."
Not true, we are solid defensively and now have quality in the final third. We have better players now than at any time since the mid 70's and people are still beating themselves up because Huth is playing at right back!
Thank your lucky stars that we are able to boast a back four that includes Huth, Shawcross and a fit Woodgate!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:37:17 GMT
Yet Huth is a poor right back and we look more vulnerable at the back than we did at the back end of last season.My fear is that we're going to go back to relying exclusively on set pieces rather than the poor mixed, fluid stuff we were playing at our best at the end of last season, with two full backs who could do ok getting forward and two mobile players up top. Out of interest, why do you say that we look more vulnerable at the back now? We've only conceded 2 goals in 7 competitive games and 1 of those was against Thun, when Wilko was playing there. Seems to me it's tightened up a bit, tho it stops us from getting forward a little on the right. I don't think we look tighter at the back at all. In Europe and against Chelsea (as good a defensive effort as that was) we played teams with no width who didn't exploit our lack of pace at the back. At Carrow Road we went to sleep on a set piece, Woodgate had a nightmare, and their young wingers scared the shit out of us, first half at least. At West Brom it took Wilko coming on for us to get our act together defensively. Prior to that, Huth was getting sucked into the middle and leaving players in dangerous positions out wide unattended, and Begovic made a great save to keep us in it. We were lucky that West Brom weren't good enough to punish us. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:38:31 GMT
"Yet Huth is a poor right back and we look more vulnerable at the back than we did at the back end of last season." Not true, we are solid defensively and now have quality in the final third. We have better players now than at any time since the mid 70's and people are still beating themselves up because Huth is playing at right back! Thank your lucky stars that we are able to boast a back four that includes Huth, Shawcross and a fit Woodgate!! We have better players, but that doesn't count for much if you don't use them in the right way. Huth playing right back is going to cost us. It cost us last season. We look a poorer team in attack and defence with him there. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2011 22:40:52 GMT
On paper it's an horrific idea and one that I don't think will work and I don't particularly want to see it but think we will. But paper never won a football game as they say, so we shall see how it works. Hopefully it is the dream ticket. Its the classic double bluff though as well.....oppo defences playin for the long punt may just play into our hands in terms of space in front or behind their defence. Nice headache for the centre halves getting pulled around the pitch....test their discipline. Hope You're right. The turgid shite played when KJ and Carew played up front together is still fresh on my mind. We're much better than that. |
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Post by senojbor on Sept 4, 2011 22:42:55 GMT
Now the dust has settled a bit can anyone genuinely see a partnership of Jones and Crouch working? Not for me! Key phrases are surely; no pace, limited movement, no creativity and predictable. The best partnerships are surely going to involve pairing them off with either Walters or Jerome. One pair starts the other pair to bring on. It's going to be trial and error to see who works best with whom. The question is of course will involve finding out if Tone has the balls to start games with either of his most expensive signings on the bench? It's a great position to be in if we use it right. I just shudder at the memory of the Jones and Carew partnership that could be a forerunner if what Jones with Crouch would look like. Tone never accepted that was bollox and we were only saved from it by Carew getting injured. I hope he has privately seen the problem the rest of us saw. p.s. Anyone mentioning "mama roles" as a solution gets burned at the stake! With set pieces, long throws and general high balls into the box, what is going to happen? ;D Can't wait ;D |
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Post by Ddraigcoch on Sept 4, 2011 22:45:53 GMT
Its the classic double bluff though as well.....oppo defences playin for the long punt may just play into our hands in terms of space in front or behind their defence. Nice headache for the centre halves getting pulled around the pitch....test their discipline. Hope You're right. The turgid shite played when KJ and Carew played up front together is still fresh on my mind. We're much better than that. True. Might need to be patient for a while bedding in and all that. But as an option the pairing has got good potential to bring goals or create them at least. |
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Post by senojbor on Sept 4, 2011 22:46:30 GMT
Out of interest, why do you say that we look more vulnerable at the back now? We've only conceded 2 goals in 7 competitive games and 1 of those was against Thun, when Wilko was playing there. Seems to me it's tightened up a bit, tho it stops us from getting forward a little on the right. I don't think we look tighter at the back at all. In Europe and against Chelsea (as good a defensive effort as that was) we played teams with no width who didn't exploit our lack of pace at the back. At Carrow Road we went to sleep on a set piece, Woodgate had a nightmare, and their young wingers scared the shit out of us, first half at least. At West Brom it took Wilko coming on for us to get our act together defensively. Prior to that, Huth was getting sucked into the middle and leaving players in dangerous positions out wide unattended, and Begovic made a great save to keep us in it. We were lucky that West Brom weren't good enough to punish us. I've read that and I've come to the conclusion Pulis is smarter than you. Or do you disagree? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:49:29 GMT
I don't think we look tighter at the back at all. In Europe and against Chelsea (as good a defensive effort as that was) we played teams with no width who didn't exploit our lack of pace at the back. At Carrow Road we went to sleep on a set piece, Woodgate had a nightmare, and their young wingers scared the shit out of us, first half at least. At West Brom it took Wilko coming on for us to get our act together defensively. Prior to that, Huth was getting sucked into the middle and leaving players in dangerous positions out wide unattended, and Begovic made a great save to keep us in it. We were lucky that West Brom weren't good enough to punish us. I've read that and I've come to the conclusion Pulis is smarter than you. Or do you disagree? Of course he is. That being the case, let's do away with the messageboard, shall we, since the manager is smarter than all of us and therefore any and all criticism is invalid and therefore debate and discussion worthless. |
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Post by bogus on Sept 4, 2011 22:56:44 GMT
Out of interest, why do you say that we look more vulnerable at the back now? We've only conceded 2 goals in 7 competitive games and 1 of those was against Thun, when Wilko was playing there. Seems to me it's tightened up a bit, tho it stops us from getting forward a little on the right. I don't think we look tighter at the back at all. In Europe and against Chelsea (as good a defensive effort as that was) we played teams with no width who didn't exploit our lack of pace at the back. At Carrow Road we went to sleep on a set piece, Woodgate had a nightmare, and their young wingers scared the shit out of us, first half at least. At West Brom it took Wilko coming on for us to get our act together defensively. Prior to that, Huth was getting sucked into the middle and leaving players in dangerous positions out wide unattended, and Begovic made a great save to keep us in it. We were lucky that West Brom weren't good enough to punish us. Fair enough. I was just curious as to why, when the stats seem so much better. But, it's also worth noting that Norwich gave the Chelsea defence, complete with two "proper" full-backs, the runaround in their next fixture. Whilst West Brom also performed really well against Chelsea and ManU, which probably means that they're not so bad as we might first think. Most teams at the level we now play will create chances, or carry some threat, at some stage. All in all, and considering that 4 of the 7 games have been away from home, I don't think we've been defending at all badly, as you will surely be under some pressure/suffer some scares in most games. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:57:38 GMT
I expect it will take at least a month before Tony can establish which partnership is the best one to use.
I can't him playing two giants together...Perhaps he'll go with Jerome & Crouch who knows...Only time will tell..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 23:00:13 GMT
I don't think we look tighter at the back at all. In Europe and against Chelsea (as good a defensive effort as that was) we played teams with no width who didn't exploit our lack of pace at the back. At Carrow Road we went to sleep on a set piece, Woodgate had a nightmare, and their young wingers scared the shit out of us, first half at least. At West Brom it took Wilko coming on for us to get our act together defensively. Prior to that, Huth was getting sucked into the middle and leaving players in dangerous positions out wide unattended, and Begovic made a great save to keep us in it. We were lucky that West Brom weren't good enough to punish us. Fair enough. I was just curious as to why, when the stats seem so much better. But, it's also worth noting that Norwich gave the Chelsea defence, complete with two "proper" full-backs, the runaround in their next fixture. Whilst West Brom also performed really well against Chelsea and ManU, which probably means that they're not so bad as we might first think. Most teams at the level we now play will create chances, or carry some threat, at some stage. All in all, and considering that 4 of the 7 games have been away from home, I don't think we've been defending at all badly, as you will surely be under some pressure/suffer some scares in most games. I don't disagree with any of that, except that the problems at Carrow Road and against West Brom were entirely of our own making. Especially at West Brom with Huth getting dragged inside. Should also be noted that our attacking play improved a lot once Shotton, a proper right back, came on at Norwich, and Huth doesn't link with Pennant anywhere near as well as Wilko does. |
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 4, 2011 23:02:07 GMT
"We have better players, but that doesn't count for much if you don't use them in the right way."
A good player is better than an average player in any position on the pitch. ManUre were winning trophies with O'Shea at right back, left back and centre half, likewise Wes Brown. We have possibly the best centre back in English football for the past 20 years playing games for us and people think he's not worth a place in the starting 11. Unfukinbelievable.
Crouch comes to Stoke, England's top goal scorer over the past two years and some are questioning whether he should start with our top scorer from last season!
It's all a bit surreal for me!
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Post by Ddraigcoch on Sept 4, 2011 23:04:01 GMT
I don't think we look tighter at the back at all. In Europe and against Chelsea (as good a defensive effort as that was) we played teams with no width who didn't exploit our lack of pace at the back. At Carrow Road we went to sleep on a set piece, Woodgate had a nightmare, and their young wingers scared the shit out of us, first half at least. At West Brom it took Wilko coming on for us to get our act together defensively. Prior to that, Huth was getting sucked into the middle and leaving players in dangerous positions out wide unattended, and Begovic made a great save to keep us in it. We were lucky that West Brom weren't good enough to punish us. Fair enough. I was just curious as to why, when the stats seem so much better. But, it's also worth noting that Norwich gave the Chelsea defence, complete with two "proper" full-backs, the runaround in their next fixture. Whilst West Brom also performed really well against Chelsea and ManU, which probably means that they're not so bad as we might first think. Most teams at the level we now play will create chances, or carry some threat, at some stage. All in all, and considering that 4 of the 7 games have been away from home, I don't think we've been defending at all badly, as you will surely be under some pressure/suffer some scares in most games. Limiting the opposition chances and maximising your own....a sound basis for any football team to approach a game, and defensively we've started the season better than I expected and been very soild. This could be a great season.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 23:07:46 GMT
"We have better players, but that doesn't count for much if you don't use them in the right way." A good player is better than an average player in any position on the pitch. Sorry mate, that simply isn't true. It's been shown not to be true time and again. A great centre half doesn't automatically make a great midfielder, striker or full back. That was the problem with Sven and Steve McClaren as England managers. He wanted to play all his best players all at once even if it meant shoehorning them in as square pegs in round holes. It didn't work. It's about finding the right blend and the right balance - the best team, not the best individuals. Cesc Fabregas doesn't get as many games for Spain as Sergio Busquets despite being a much more gifted footballer because they need the type of player Busquets is to protect the likes of Xavi and Iniesta, for example. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 4, 2011 23:12:50 GMT
Jonesy and Crouchy no. We need one forward to play across the width of the frontline. That doesn't suit either of them.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 4, 2011 23:23:23 GMT
So it comes down to who is the better player in a certain position:
Woodgate is a better centre half than Huth and Shawcross
Huth is arguably a better centre half than Shawcross but without doubt a better right back than Shawcross.
Shawcross is a better centre half than Wilko.
At this moment in time it comes down to Huth or Wilko for full back. Huth is the better footballer so he has to start.
Crouch is a better striker than Walters and Jones will score more goals over a season than Walters so therefore Jones and Crouch should start.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 23:27:42 GMT
So it comes down to who is the better player in a certain position: Woodgate is a better centre half than Huth and Shawcross Huth is arguably a better centre half than Shawcross but without doubt a better right back than Shawcross. Shawcross is a better centre half than Wilko. At this moment in time it comes down to Huth or Wilko for full back. Huth is the better footballer so he has to start. Crouch is a better striker than Walters and Jones will score more goals over a season than Walters so therefore Jones and Crouch should start. It isn't that simple! Shawcross and Huth had an effective partnership at centre back that didn't need to be tampered with. Woodgate is fantastic cover for that. Huth is a top notch centre half but Wilko is a better right back. He links better with Pennant, he gets tighter to the winger to try and stop crosses coming in and he gets forward better. He's not great by any stretch, but he's better in that position than Huth, despite Huth being one of the best centre halves in the league. We don't know yet how Crouch is going to fit in. We'll find out. Let's hope he does, because for ten million quid he isn't going to be on the bench. |
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Post by oldgit57 on Sept 4, 2011 23:42:41 GMT
So it comes down to who is the better player in a certain position: Woodgate is a better centre half than Huth and Shawcross Huth is arguably a better centre half than Shawcross but without doubt a better right back than Shawcross. Shawcross is a better centre half than Wilko. At this moment in time it comes down to Huth or Wilko for full back. Huth is the better footballer so he has to start. Crouch is a better striker than Walters and Jones will score more goals over a season than Walters so therefore Jones and Crouch should start. It isn't that simple! Shawcross and Huth had an effective partnership at centre back that didn't need to be tampered with. Woodgate is fantastic cover for that. Huth is a top notch centre half but Wilko is a better right back. He links better with Pennant, he gets tighter to the winger to try and stop crosses coming in and he gets forward better. He's not great by any stretch, but he's better in that position than Huth, despite Huth being one of the best centre halves in the league. We don't know yet how Crouch is going to fit in. We'll find out. Let's hope he does, because for ten million quid he isn't going to be on the bench. Agree with pretty much all of this! Tbh was a bit surprised that TP changed the defence that finished last season, thought the centre back pairing to be as good as any in the league, Wilko had stepped up and was linking well with JP.Only doubt for me was at left back, not dissing Wilson,he's just not a left back. When Tone signed Woody, I honestly felt that he'd be used sparingly ( possibly during Euro and Cup games and injury back up) bearing in mind his injury record. While its a pleasant surprise that Woody is making so many games it has thrown open this right back debate once more. |
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Post by travisio92 on Sept 4, 2011 23:55:16 GMT
What's this? Is someone moaning now we've spent 13 million on two forwards, one a successful england forward, and now have a variety of options upfront?
Some people just look for anything to have a dig.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Sept 5, 2011 0:19:16 GMT
So it comes down to who is the better player in a certain position: Woodgate is a better centre half than Huth and Shawcross Huth is arguably a better centre half than Shawcross but without doubt a better right back than Shawcross. Shawcross is a better centre half than Wilko. At this moment in time it comes down to Huth or Wilko for full back. Huth is the better footballer so he has to start. Crouch is a better striker than Walters and Jones will score more goals over a season than Walters so therefore Jones and Crouch should start. Woodgate is nowhere near as good as Huth. IMO Huth is the best player at the club and we are moving him out of position to accommodate a lesser player in Woodgate and disrupting one of the best CB partnerships in England in the process. Wilko is out best option at RB at the moment but when Higgy is fit I would be happier with Wilson at RB. |
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