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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jan 18, 2011 14:31:44 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12216285And about bloody time to!!!! One of the most rediculous and ill thought out ideas the labour clowns left us with. £560million saved just by making people take responcability for themselves or for their children. I really cannot believe that they pay £120 a month to go and get an education. If the parents arent teaching them why they should get qualifications then why should we pay them a bribe to do it. When i was 16 and 17 i went to college with the help of my parents and by working part time, which is how it should be. When i was 18 i did an appreniceship working a proper job for 40 hours a week for only £60 a week. I would bet the only ones that drop out will be the lazy twats who are only going for the money and have no intention of learning anything Good riddence to it!
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Post by amancalledhorse on Jan 18, 2011 14:43:01 GMT
I'm not sure how effective the EMA is in engaging low-income students in further education so I'll not go all out to defend it without seeing figures.
However, I will say that the EMA is not 'pay' to receive an education, rather offsetting the opportunity cost of not going straight to work/taking apprenticeships. The idea is to provide low-income students with the opportunity to carry on with education in circumstances where their parents otherwise may not be able to sustain it.
I'll also add that I saw a stat saying that for every x hours over 12 hours/week work (think it was 2), a student can expect to see their mark drop by a grade.
I'd say in a city like Stoke that losing it could have quite a negative impact. Longterm, engaging the young people of this city in further education is almost certainly a good idea given that around 50% of the populace have less than 5 GCSEs and the literacy rate stats are alarming.
Another point to make is that it is around half the cost of job seekers allowance and given the volume of those 16-19 in the city who are sitting around thumbing their arses, 30 quid a week for a chance to do a few AS levels/BTECS/whatever doesn;t sound that bad a deal.
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Post by Northy on Jan 18, 2011 14:45:50 GMT
My lads friend had it, £30 quid a week, the parents were divorced but both had good full time jobs, they must have not filled in the form correctly  My lad moaned at us as he didn't get it, and his mate bought xbox, wii and loads of games with his money and is now studying astro physics with physics, my lad got diagnosed with dyslexia 2 months ago in his 3rd year of Uni after struggling at school and college but working hard to get through it, shows what the system put it's effort into, bribing their voters |
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Post by mozzer68 on Jan 18, 2011 15:06:41 GMT
Northwichstokie
Your lads dyslexia should have been picked up sooner ie- at collage (they are normaly tested when they start)
The money saved on this EMA malarkey should be ploughed into helping kids at an earlier age with dyslexia
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Post by Cupid Stunt on Jan 18, 2011 15:07:21 GMT
I'm not sure how effective the EMA is in engaging low-income students in further education so I'll not go all out to defend it without seeing figures. However, I will say that the EMA is not 'pay' to receive an education, rather offsetting the opportunity cost of not going straight to work/taking apprenticeships. The idea is to provide low-income students with the opportunity to carry on with education in circumstances where their parents otherwise may not be able to sustain it. I'll also add that I saw a stat saying that for every x hours over 12 hours/week work (think it was 2), a student can expect to see their mark drop by a grade. I'd say in a city like Stoke that losing it could have quite a negative impact. Longterm, engaging the young people of this city in further education is almost certainly a good idea given that around 50% of the populace have less than 5 GCSEs and the literacy rate stats are alarming. Another point to make is that it is around half the cost of job seekers allowance and given the volume of those 16-19 in the city who are sitting around thumbing their arses, 30 quid a week for a chance to do a few AS levels/BTECS/whatever doesn;t sound that bad a deal. Nail on head. Northwich is right though, people used to purposefully find the loop holes. I went to Sir John Deane's in Northwich and there were students there who had been to private schools who got EMA because their parents were divorced, but their mum only worked part time, so they'd say they lived with her and make out their dad didn't spoil them rotten. Then they had the cheek to complain that they couldn't skive lessons because they wouldn't get it and it wasn't fair. However, I think in some areas it's important and I'd rather have a few people find the loop holes than make everyone suffer because of them. There were ways of reforming it that could have been made rather than scrapping it. For one, they could have been given vouchers for stationary stores and a bus pass for free, thus people who could afford it wouldn't be that arsed on missing out.  |
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Post by BoxxyTheLost on Jan 18, 2011 15:41:52 GMT
I'm not sure how effective the EMA is in engaging low-income students in further education so I'll not go all out to defend it without seeing figures. However, I will say that the EMA is not 'pay' to receive an education, rather offsetting the opportunity cost of not going straight to work/taking apprenticeships. The idea is to provide low-income students with the opportunity to carry on with education in circumstances where their parents otherwise may not be able to sustain it. I'll also add that I saw a stat saying that for every x hours over 12 hours/week work (think it was 2), a student can expect to see their mark drop by a grade. I'd say in a city like Stoke that losing it could have quite a negative impact. Longterm, engaging the young people of this city in further education is almost certainly a good idea given that around 50% of the populace have less than 5 GCSEs and the literacy rate stats are alarming. Another point to make is that it is around half the cost of job seekers allowance and given the volume of those 16-19 in the city who are sitting around thumbing their arses, 30 quid a week for a chance to do a few AS levels/BTECS/whatever doesn;t sound that bad a deal. Nail on head. Northwich is right though, people used to purposefully find the loop holes. I went to Sir John Deane's in Northwich and there were students there who had been to private schools who got EMA because their parents were divorced, but their mum only worked part time, so they'd say they lived with her and make out their dad didn't spoil them rotten. Then they had the cheek to complain that they couldn't skive lessons because they wouldn't get it and it wasn't fair. However, I think in some areas it's important and I'd rather have a few people find the loop holes than make everyone suffer because of them. There were ways of reforming it that could have been made rather than scrapping it. For one, they could have been given vouchers for stationary stores and a bus pass for free, thus people who could afford it wouldn't be that arsed on missing out. I agree with most of that. The same as other benefits, it doesn't need scrapping, it needs monitoring and stricter controls to make sure there are fewer loopholes and severe punishments for exploiting them. |
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Post by tazi on Jan 18, 2011 15:42:39 GMT
I wish my Daughter that has a brain tumour with severe impaired vision could get a job or even take much valued exams that would get her a job paying more than the £30 she currently recieves in EMA or my other daughter that has memory impairments from birth.
Knob.
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Post by bettsy on Jan 18, 2011 15:48:55 GMT
EMA was an excellent idea by labour, when i left school i had no idea what the hell i wanted to do but that year (in 1999) , i heard that you could get paid for going college which encouraged me and loads more to carry on with education instead of going straight on the dole. Also you get bonuses for exam results, which again encouraged me to study hard and make sure i pass. The EMA is based on your families income anyway, i lived with my mum who was unemployed because of my 3 younger sisters in the house and i got the full £30 a week, however most of mates only got between £12 and £15 a week because there parents are working. I think it was one of the best things labour did to be fair
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Post by elystokie on Jan 18, 2011 15:56:22 GMT
My lads friend had it, £30 quid a week, the parents were divorced but both had good full time jobs, they must have not filled in the form correctly My lad moaned at us as he didn't get it, and his mate bought xbox, wii and loads of games with his money and is now studying astro physics with physics, my lad got diagnosed with dyslexia 2 months ago in his 3rd year of Uni after struggling at school and college but working hard to get through it, shows what the system put it's effort into, bribing their voters My lad moans his bag off at us that he doesn't get it as well, already costs us around £700 in train fares a year to get him to college. Most of the kids at his college have loaded parents or they get this ema, he's one of a minority apparently. So much for staying married and working hard eh.  |
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Post by tazi on Jan 18, 2011 15:59:57 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12216285And about bloody time to!!!! One of the most rediculous and ill thought out ideas the labour clowns left us with. £560million saved just by making people take responcability for themselves or for their children. I really cannot believe that they pay £120 a month to go and get an education. If the parents arent teaching them why they should get qualifications then why should we pay them a bribe to do it. When i was 16 and 17 i went to college with the help of my parents and by working part time, which is how it should be. When i was 18 i did an appreniceship working a proper job for 40 hours a week for only £60 a week. I would bet the only ones that drop out will be the lazy twats who are only going for the money and have no intention of learning anything Good riddence to it! How fuckin lucky you are that you were able to go to college. See my above post and answer which reason will it be my Daughters drop out.............Will it be cuz they're lazy twats or will it be because they were only going for the money. Well i tell you what, they wont be dropping out AT ALL because it's the only place they can go to due to such poor health and learning disabilities. You're so fookin lucky.... |
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Post by Northy on Jan 18, 2011 16:17:13 GMT
I wish my Daughter that has a brain tumour with severe impaired vision could get a job or even take much valued exams that would get her a job paying more than the £30 she currently recieves in EMA or my other daughter that has memory impairments from birth. Knob. Tazi, your daughters should be under a different scheme than the EMA, the situations are much different: I don't know what that would be, but something more than a standard EMA that form what I've seen gets spunked up down the game shop, chippy and pub. |
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Post by Northy on Jan 18, 2011 16:21:48 GMT
My lads friend had it, £30 quid a week, the parents were divorced but both had good full time jobs, they must have not filled in the form correctly My lad moaned at us as he didn't get it, and his mate bought xbox, wii and loads of games with his money and is now studying astro physics with physics, my lad got diagnosed with dyslexia 2 months ago in his 3rd year of Uni after struggling at school and college but working hard to get through it, shows what the system put it's effort into, bribing their voters My lad moans his bag off at us that he doesn't get it as well, already costs us around £700 in train fares a year to get him to college. Most of the kids at his college have loaded parents or they get this ema, he's one of a minority apparently. So much for staying married and working hard eh. Exactly, both the parents of my lads mate (who I know as well, he's known him since 5) had 2nd partners etc. We have to drop our lad off at Hartford station to get to Uni, he then has to catch a bus after that and walk a mile, when he gets dropped off at Hartford station we see a mini bus half full of students going to college at the same place (its starting point is half a mile from our house), we asked to pay for a seat on that minibus but the council said 'sorry it's not allowed' even though there is empty seats that we were willing to pay for, fookin local authorities |
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 18, 2011 16:54:31 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12216285And about bloody time to!!!! One of the most rediculous and ill thought out ideas the labour clowns left us with. £560million saved just by making people take responcability for themselves or for their children. I really cannot believe that they pay £120 a month to go and get an education. If the parents arent teaching them why they should get qualifications then why should we pay them a bribe to do it. When i was 16 and 17 i went to college with the help of my parents and by working part time, which is how it should be. When i was 18 i did an appreniceship working a proper job for 40 hours a week for only £60 a week. I would bet the only ones that drop out will be the lazy twats who are only going for the money and have no intention of learning anything Good riddence to it! How fuckin lucky you are that you were able to go to college. See my above post and answer which reason will it be my Daughters drop out.............Will it be cuz they're lazy twats or will it be because they were only going for the money. Well i tell you what, they wont be dropping out AT ALL because it's the only place they can go to due to such poor health and learning disabilities. You're so fookin lucky.... I don't agree at all that people should be "paid" to attend college. After all, people should want to undertake further education rather than, "ohh, i'll do a couple of years AND get free money for it!" The majority of people had to get a job to help supplement their studies (as did I and many others prior to EMA) and we seem to have achieved quite well without it. I may be incorrect but surely those on low incomes or benefits and entitled to child allowances would be covered anyway as people get entitlements until their child is either 16 or if in further education 18 anyway! Tazi, surely with respect there is no need to jump down someones throat when they are just giving a general impression. There are obvioulsy individual cases and especially in light of yours, there should be a case for DLA to aid and assist with your daughter. |
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Post by Roy Cropper on Jan 18, 2011 16:57:07 GMT
It was a good idea but wrongly managed. Children with rich retired parents were eligible for £30 a month as it was solely based on your annual household income, and the random £100 bonuses given out every so often were ridiculous.
The money wasn't used by children for educational purposes as was hoped, it all went on beer money and going out.
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Post by amancalledhorse on Jan 18, 2011 17:18:12 GMT
I don't agree at all that people should be "paid" to attend college. After all, people should want to undertake further education rather than, "ohh, i'll do a couple of years AND get free money for it!" The majority of people had to get a job to help supplement their studies (as did I and many others prior to EMA) and we seem to have achieved quite well without it. I may be incorrect but surely those on low incomes or benefits and entitled to child allowances would be covered anyway as people get entitlements until their child is either 16 or if in further education 18 anyway! With respect to Stoke on Trent in particular, ANY incentive to get young people to further themselves is worthy if it works. There really is a massive problem with young people in this city not doing a great deal (if anyone would like to bring up the NEET stats for Bentilee, I imagine they would support my point). |
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Post by mistersausage on Jan 18, 2011 17:19:51 GMT
Oh dear, the torys taking yet again off those who have the least, an amount that Cameron and his chubby faced yahooos would have spent on 'tucker' in their afternoon break at Eton. I still don't see the same torys trying to take anything away from th tax dodgers and mortgage fraudsters Some things never change. |
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Post by tazi on Jan 18, 2011 17:39:49 GMT
How fuckin lucky you are that you were able to go to college. See my above post and answer which reason will it be my Daughters drop out.............Will it be cuz they're lazy twats or will it be because they were only going for the money. Well i tell you what, they wont be dropping out AT ALL because it's the only place they can go to due to such poor health and learning disabilities. You're so fookin lucky.... I don't agree at all that people should be "paid" to attend college. After all, people should want to undertake further education rather than, "ohh, i'll do a couple of years AND get free money for it!" The majority of people had to get a job to help supplement their studies (as did I and many others prior to EMA) and we seem to have achieved quite well without it. I may be incorrect but surely those on low incomes or benefits and entitled to child allowances would be covered anyway as people get entitlements until their child is either 16 or if in further education 18 anyway! Tazi, surely with respect there is no need to jump down someones throat when they are just giving a general impression. There are obvioulsy individual cases and especially in light of yours, there should be a case for DLA to aid and assist with your daughter. A general expression?......I dont think so, sounded pretty much to me that he's judging absolutely everyone. They're 'lazy twats 'the ones that drop out sums it up for me, not to mention that it's the right thing to do in scrapping it. Same as i say 'how fuckin lucky he is'. Oh yeah, she gets DLA 'they both do' but that aint much compared to what she could have earned and same as i say she goes to learn and the whole point of my rabid post is because he say's it's a good idea to scrap it and without so much of a thought for children like mine 'instead he puts them all in the same bracket, that bracket being that ALL are not deserving'. But hey, as long as he's allright Jack. Edit - Hope to god he never has kids that believe £30 a week is an absolute fortune to them and as you've probably guessed by now my children attend a college where they cater for special needs, but hey, children like mine can go and fook right off according to his shite post. |
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Jan 18, 2011 17:48:39 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12216285And about bloody time to!!!! One of the most rediculous and ill thought out ideas the labour clowns left us with. £560million saved just by making people take responcability for themselves or for their children. I really cannot believe that they pay £120 a month to go and get an education. If the parents arent teaching them why they should get qualifications then why should we pay them a bribe to do it. When i was 16 and 17 i went to college with the help of my parents and by working part time, which is how it should be. When i was 18 i did an appreniceship working a proper job for 40 hours a week for only £60 a week. I would bet the only ones that drop out will be the lazy twats who are only going for the money and have no intention of learning anything Good riddence to it! What a load of narrow minded bollocks. Just seems like academic anger. I imagine you hate students at University and applauded tuition fees being raised to daft levels too? Congrats on doing an apprenticeship but some of us prefer the academic route rather than the practical route if that's alright with you? Fuck it, let's have done with college and Uni and shove everyone into an apprenticeship eh? Stop the narrow minded twatters on here from moaning about students that way Not everyone who drops out received EMA either. Some just don't enjoy the college lifestyle so more narrow minded bollocks on your behalf The money was intended to help low-income families, like one I was from, to offset the travel costs, books, learning materials and actually being able to eat and drink whilst at college in the day, not as a bribe to get people, LIKE MYSELF, to college. I went to college because I wanted to go, the money helped fund the stuff I've mentioned, like everyone else that received the dosh You'd have to be pretty loaded if your kids don't receive any amount of EMA. My ex's parents earnt about £58k between them and she just fell short of receiving £10 a week. Also, EMA was based on household income, not combined parents' income. My parents had split by the time I started college so, because my Dads household income was low enough, I received EMA. It's not people swindling the system, it's the system taking into consideration that separation does actually take place In short to some on this thread, don't talk about it if you don't actually know the ins and outs of EMA or, overall, the post-16 academic way of going about things because, frankly, you make yourself look a right tit |
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Post by tigger68 on Jan 18, 2011 17:53:10 GMT
the whole reason to try and get kids go college is so that they can better themselves and get better paid jobs...most manual jobs have gone around here,i paid child support whilst my kid went college and she still got ema on top of child support,so it did'nt help me in the slightest,kids can't sign on until they are 18,so whats the alternative? just let the kids roam the streets causing havoc with no money and no job? i'd like to know what yorkshirepotter will think when crime rates go up because there is no incentive for kids to go into further education....
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Post by myleftboot on Jan 18, 2011 18:04:30 GMT
Never been a fan of it.
It just annoys me as to why you should be paid to attend lectures etc. When it is your choice to go to college. I got feck all when I went and yeah it wasn't easy but that was my choice. The other choice was a YTS and I sat down and discussed everything.
The other thing that makes me think is that is it not that kids will have to stay in education until they are 18 anyway if they started school after a certain date. This in itself makes the scheme in the long run redundant.
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Post by elystokie on Jan 18, 2011 18:13:03 GMT
"You'd have to be pretty loaded if your kids don't receive any amount of EMA" Hate to piss on yer chips mate, but according to this website your parents have to have a joint income of less than £30k in order for you to qualify. Hardly fucking 'loaded' is it? www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/ema-get-paid-to-study |
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Post by starkiller on Jan 18, 2011 19:04:06 GMT
People still moaning about a pittance such as 560 million whilst the banks fleece hundreds of billions. But let's fall out among ourselves instead of targeting them. This country is owned outright by an elite banking cartel and so is your measly existence as your taxes including all of your income tax goes straight to them. You're busting your balls everyday for them and their made up interest rates on land stolen from the people of this country many years ago.
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jan 18, 2011 22:44:04 GMT
What a load of narrow minded bollocks. Just seems like academic anger. I imagine you hate students at University and applauded tuition fees being raised to daft levels too? Where do i say that? No i do not agree with the increase in tuition fees, and i'll answer your question about hating students further down. Congrats on doing an apprenticeship but some of us prefer the academic route rather than the practical route if that's alright with you? Fuck it, let's have done with college and Uni and shove everyone into an apprenticeship eh? Stop the narrow minded twatters on here from moaning about students that way I stated that i did two years at college. I changed the career route i wanted to take after the second year and the most suitable option for me was on the job training. Again, where have i said that all academic education is bad? Not everyone who drops out received EMA either. Some just don't enjoy the college lifestyle so more narrow minded bollocks on your behalf Why is that being picked up on? I know people who are only going to college to get the money, and i know parents who push their kids to stay at college to get the money. I'll rephrase it then, 'I would bet the only ones that drop out BECAUSE EMA IS BEING SCRAPPED will be the lazy twats who are only going for the money and have no intention of learning anything AS THE ONES WHO WANT TO LEARN WILL CARRY ON. I did not say the only people who drop out are on EMA. The money was intended to help low-income families, like one I was from, to offset the travel costs, books, learning materials and actually being able to eat and drink whilst at college in the day, not as a bribe to get people, LIKE MYSELF, to college. I went to college because I wanted to go, the money helped fund the stuff I've mentioned, like everyone else that received the dosh You said it yourself, you went to college because YOU wanted too. If the EMA had not been there would you have still gone? Im guessing you would, beause you wanted to be there. Fair play if you used the money as intended but as others have mentioned, people from low income households have been going to college for years before this scheme, and will continue to do after it is gone. In short to some on this thread, don't talk about it if you don't actually know the ins and outs of EMA or, overall, the post-16 academic way of going about things because, frankly, you make yourself look a right tit I am well aware of the ins and outs of the academic route and higher education. My wife went to college and uni, and achieved a degree while working in hospitals and care homes to live and is currentley working towards a masters while working as a cancer screening nurse. So to accuse me of hating students is not only unfair, but also complete bollocks. I appreiciate how hard it is to achieve anything at university. We have a savings account for our daughter because we know it will be very difficult for her in 15 years time if she chooses to go to uni, so we are going without things now to help her further down the line. I stand by MY OPINION that it is the right thing to do to scrap this scheme. I also stand by my opinion that there are many more benefits and handouts that need to be cut and trimmed down. Going off topic a bit, and this is nothing to do with anyone getting EMA before you all kick off, this country needs to lose the attitude that somebody else has to pay for things. As a family we are being screwed by this government, but why should families who have worked hard and tried to set themselves and their kids up the best they can be squeezed and fored to go without, while the families who havent bothered and continued to treat state benefits as a wage for bringing up kids, continue to get a free ride? |
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Post by Inverness Stokie on Jan 19, 2011 0:50:29 GMT
The reason for them scrapping EMA is because it will be compulsory for students to continue at school or get an apprenticeship or enrol on a BTEC course until the age of 18. As it is compulsory why the hell should tax-payers pay anyone for improving THEIR education?
They should be greatful that education until the age of 19 is free.
I was never able to qualify for EMA as my parents earned over the quota, I worked for 2 years and then went back to college and i'm still at college. Luckily I do get ALG which pays for my college course. Some people really have no idea how lucky that they really are.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 19, 2011 0:58:55 GMT
To be fair, a lot of the problems caused by the high-earning money movers that caused this financial crash could be solved by simply killing everyone on under say, £40k pa and shipping over migrant workers who will work for a penny an hour.
That's what I believe. But then again, I am a Tory.
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Post by PenkhullStokie on Jan 19, 2011 0:59:42 GMT
I only get £10 a week which I don't really care about.
My dad has a fulltime job and my mum has a part time one.
The money just piles up in my account until I get about £50-£100 and spunk it on shit. Although in the first few weeks al my equipment, books and that cost a fair bit.
However, I do know alot of people who catch the train or bus, or even multiple buses to get to college and that EMA gets them to college. £1.80 for the bus. Twice every day. It can be anywhere from £10-£40 a week to get to and from college.
EMA really helps people to actually have an education at college.
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Post by evans1863 on Jan 19, 2011 6:26:14 GMT
I went to college because I didnt want to work, at least thats how I see it in hindsight. I didnt get any EMA so I left after a year, maybe if i'd have got it id have carried on a bit longer but who knows.
Id be in favour of say reducing it by 20/25% but not removing it completely
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Post by Mama's Mama on Jan 21, 2011 19:18:19 GMT
A friend of mine's parents are divorced. They live with their mother - and gets £30 a week EMA. Her dad is a multi-millionaire businessman.
Now tell me how that is fair? If the government wanted to encourage people who may not have been able to afford to stay in education to carry on with their studies - why not ( as previously mentioned) offer free bus/train passes, or vouchers for books/stationary. Just because your parents may earn x amount of money, doesn't mean they pay for your bus fare!
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Post by scfctilidie on Jan 21, 2011 19:27:42 GMT
I get £30 a week EMA at the minute, fair enough people slating it but personally that goes towards my bus pass each term, and was paying £1.80 each way for bus tickets until that showed up. Also use it for books, equipment etc. I know quite a lot of people piss it up the wall on booze, games etc, and a lot of people dont need it, thats where the system is going wrong. They've got rid of the £100 bonuses already, I work as many hours as I can around college for my dad and that along with EMA helps me get to and stay at college. It does offer an incentive to lots of poorer kids around here, but it is being misused and needs to be sorted, if that means scrapping it so be it, I'll still turn out at college and get the grades for uni in september. some lad on the news saying i might as well do drugs if they take my EMA away from me, bollocks, dicks like you dont deserve it, you can get by without it, it just helps ease the financial strain sometimes.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jan 21, 2011 20:33:26 GMT
i heard that you could get paid for going college which encouraged me and loads more to carry on with education instead of going straight on the dole. This is probably the biggest factor, if 50% of the people who get £30 a week go on the dole we get less people with an education but will barely save a penny. Sure, 50% is almost certainly a pessimistic figure, but the point stands that a fair bit of the savings are going to go on JSA. Of course that doesn't stand if compulsary education to 18 comes in as one poster suggests, but I wasn't aware that this was coming in for certain - is there a set date? |
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