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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 20:22:38 GMT
For a long time i have been been debating the MM era at Stoke City with fellow stokies,not all on this board.Some at work,others in the pub and some in the family.He got the name of mid-table mick but in my opinoin that was a achievement considering the state of the club when he took over(with no managerial expierence).When he took over in 85 Stoke City were a football mess and in that era clubs were falling from div 1 to div 4,ie Swansea and Wolves.MM got good ship Stoke City on a even keel and gave us respect again.I remember the demonstrations at the Vic,always watched them but could not understand them.I would be intersted in reading other stokie's thought's on Millsy. When he took over we were in free fall,when he left we were relegated again. In my honest opinion he was very,very underated.Did a great job for SCFC.
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Post by craig1974 on Oct 11, 2008 20:41:08 GMT
Didnt we beat Leeds United at Home 6-2 under him?
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 20:44:13 GMT
Yes we did,the next season we beat them 7-2.As good a job as Lou and Mr Pulis did the job MM did was just as good but now forgotten,sadly.
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Post by craig1974 on Oct 11, 2008 20:52:20 GMT
I remember goin to Blackpool that season with my parents and sister on the same night we played Wimbledon at home and drew 0-0, we drove past the Victoria Ground as the floodlights shone that night and was gutted to miss the game. Got in the hotel and i only wanted to know how we got on, so watched the 10pm news only to find out we drew 0-0 lol.
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Oct 11, 2008 20:55:12 GMT
Me and my dad went to plenty of home and away games during the mills era and yes, he probably deserves a touch more credit.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 20:57:10 GMT
I remember that game,it was played on a friday night.I learnt more about the offside law that night thanks to Wimbeldon than i ever did from playing the game in the Staffs County League.
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 11, 2008 20:57:32 GMT
Mills began his managerial career at Stoke, and despite some promising early years, his career kind of drifted into nothing. The best season we had under him was 1986-87, when we had the likes of Nicky Morgan and Carl Saunders banging them in in my opinion. I recall that season a 6-0 FA Cup win over Grimsby, 7-2 vs Leeds and 5-2 vs Sheff Utd. During the xmas period 1986 we were on fire, and its only when we lost in the FA cup to Coventry that things went wrong. The team's confidence drained and we fell down the league.
His first season was nothing short of a miracle. He basically managed to stablise the club with a load of lads, Graham Shaw, Chris Hemmings and Chris Maskery to name but a few. The defence strengthened and an average to poor Paul Dyson became a solid centre half under Mills.
Ultimately though, Mills was a corporate manager in my view. He knew how to run a club and balance the books, but I don't think he delivered many Churchill'esq speeches in the changing room. The club began to drift into mid table 8,000 average attendance mediocrity, which by 1990 was stale. In my opinion he did steady the ship, but the fans were bored s***less by the time he left.
I would say he was successfull, but he didn't know how to develop the club any further than stablising it which is why Alan Ball was invited to coach the team, a few new idea's being the ethic behind the clubs thinking.
He stopped the rot, and although we went down anyway in the early 90's, I think if we had gone down to the third teir in 1986, we would have fallen below the radar and struggled to ever return.
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Post by craig1974 on Oct 11, 2008 20:58:26 GMT
Barry Siddall great keeper, NOT !! :-)
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 21:01:28 GMT
Barry Siddall great keeper, NOT !! :-) He was before MM's era. Would be intersted to hear from Smudge on this as i remember the early days of the printed oatcake thrived on the MM debate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2008 21:05:11 GMT
Started well when he stopped the rot..but then lost his way in his attempts to take the club foreward..has passed his sell by date long before he left. At a time when it was obvious , certainly up here on Merseyside that the Prem league was just around the corner, Mills consistantly called for time the club couldn't afford , talked of getting in the play-offs..when he was nearer to the play-offs to stay in the division ( that existed then) than a return to the top flight...we missed the boat big time under him..and although it'd be unfair to lay the whole of the 23 year at his door, missing the boat was a historical disaster for this club. To my knowledge admitted to just one mistake whilst manager...playing himself in the midweek deafeat at Swindon..fittingly Swindon was to play a major part in his demise.. Guess it's not hard to read through the lines that i wasn't impressed...despite it has to be said some individually excellent results and performances along the way Oh and yes and he called my leaflet campaign the biggest joke in the Potteries ..that leaflet campaign saw just 4 leaflets released and 996 held..against Millwall a game we lost 1-0 , long before he went , yet still hit every national newspaper on the Monday when one of the 4 was read out on radio Stoke. An early day hudsongod ..broke my heart and got me labled a 'follower ' of the club by a life long mate in the club programme
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 21:05:47 GMT
PLP'
When vale got promoted that put massive pressure on MM.They even gave him £1 million to spend on players.He broke the club transfer record fee at the time on Ian Cranson,he got injured and Lou reaped the benifts of that deal.
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Post by craig1974 on Oct 11, 2008 21:08:47 GMT
Just had a quick peek through Stoke City A Modern Era, Siddell played 15 games in 84/85 season when we went down and only played 5 games under Mick Mills.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 21:11:28 GMT
Ok,can i turn this completly on it's head,i respect everything you have all said.But what would have happened to Stoke City FC if MM had not done so well in his one and only management job. Not looking to fall out with any fellow oatcaker's on this but i honestly think we are overlooking a major part of our history here.
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 11, 2008 21:12:04 GMT
Started well when he stopped the rot..but then lost his way in his attempts to take the club goreward..has passed his sell by date long before he left. At a time when it was obvious , certainly up here on Merseyside that the Prem league was just around the corner, Mills consistantly called for time the club couldn't afford , talked of getting in the play-offs..when he was nearer to the play-offs to stay in the league ( that existed then) than a return to the top flight...we missed the boat big time under him..and although it'd be unfair to lay the whole of the 23 year at his door, missing the boat was a historical disaster for this club. To my knowledge admitted to just one mistake whilst manager...playing himself in the midweek deafeat at Swindon..fittingly Swindon was to play a major part in his demise.. Guess it's not hard to read through the lines that i wasn't impressed...despite it has to be said to individually excellent results We also missed the relegation boat under him, which at the time of his taking over seemed inevitable. There were many reasons for our not being able to get back into the top league, I would suggest he could hold a bit of the blame but I wouldn't put him in the dock for that. While we were competing in the second teir, clubs like Wolves were trying to stay alive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2008 21:14:53 GMT
He missed the boat when it was clear to all but those it seemed in the Potteries that football was about to change..at the time he was given the most to spend on players that any Stoke manager had ever received.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 21:18:40 GMT
He missed the boat when it was clear to all but those it seemed in the Potteries that football was about to change..at the time he was given the most to spend on players that any Stoke manager had ever received. Scouse,The board gave him money to spend because vale had caught up with us.Looking back some of it was spent very well,he bought Cranson(injury prone during the MM reign).He also bought in Bertie,Lou benifited from both of these signings.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2008 21:24:58 GMT
Stenny
I've had loads of arguments over the years re Mills ..some of them very heated to say the least...all water under a very long bridge now and certainly at the time gave him plenty of credit for steading the ship..and for other people's views
As always feel there's horses for courses ..his task was to steady the ship he did that and should have moved on with everyone's blessing and thanks...stuck around to long in the end...in his later years the number of games we'd get sussed out at half time was woeful
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 11, 2008 21:27:16 GMT
You are right in a way Scouse, we should have secured the services of Graham Paddon long before the early 90's.
Ahem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2008 21:33:22 GMT
One thing I do find odd when people discuss Mills more than any other manager ( except save perhaps TP ) is they use even worse failures ( usually Ball ) to somehow support him.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 21:33:32 GMT
Scouse,
As you may know from my previous posts i have the upmost respect for you and the way you support Stoke City. I am happy to read your thought's but i think Port Vale getting promoted was something the Stoke City board could not live with,that put unreal pressure on MM.All of a sudden he had abrief of steadying the ship to getting promoted.It was totally unrealistic and we suffered until Lou came in. Just my opinion.
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 11, 2008 21:35:13 GMT
There wasn't anything better knocking around at the time scouse. Nobody wanted to come to Stoke, there are plenty of worse failures, usually the people who arrived after he left.
Nothing against Ball. God rest his soul.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 21:50:52 GMT
Mick Mills performed a miracle,nobody realised it at the time.It would be in comparison Lee Sinnot keeping Vale up last season and the getting them in the play-off this season. Like i say i am intersted in reading fellow stokie's recollection's of MM's era.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2008 21:54:17 GMT
Stenny
Honestly , no probs , doesn't mean my opinions were right then or indeed now - or any more valid than anyone elses
Still like to genuinely feel I give him full credit for those early days...probably my most unsettling time as a Stokie and not an era I look back now with any fondness, perhaps because for the first time I found myself having a pop at the club I love..
And who knows with the advantage of age I might have been wrong
It's why when people have called for any manager since Mills ( including TP) that although I've had my opinions I've largely held my council and refused to get inolved.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 22:09:38 GMT
Scouse,it great to have a debate about something that i can discuss in a adult manner with My main point is where would Stoke City have gone if MM had not done his job to the best of his ability.When we went down in 84/5 we were a complete mess.In May 1985 my nextdoor neighbour was Tony Lacey(living at home with mum and dad at the time in Cheddleton) and he wanted the job but reckoned we were in such a bad position it would ruin his career.Upstepped MM.That's why i have strong opinions on this,nobody was big enough to take on the job. Stenny.
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Post by Davef on Oct 11, 2008 22:13:28 GMT
It's amazing how history gets re-written isn't it? Yes, Mick Mills did initially do a very good job, but he can't be compared to Tony Pulis or Lou Macari. Everything in football is relative, and while we were grateful to him for stopping the rot, he didn't have the ability to move the club on to the next level.
There's no doubt that the team would still have been relegated in 1990 had Mills kept control of the team. By then he'd run out of ideas and he'd lost the dressing room. In actual fact, he'd run out of ideas and lost the dressing room long before then, but, for reasons only he can explain, Peter Coates and his board decided to give him another contract along with a £1M to spend.
Perhaps the best way to judge the ability of Mick Mills is that his managerial career virtually ended when Stoke sacked him. I think he got a job at Colchester, but didn't last long there. He was finished as a Football League manager at the age of 41.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 22:25:45 GMT
Davef, Like i say mate MM came from a era when Stoke were sinking fast,all of a sudden he had the emergence of Vale to contend with.He was given money but it was a reaction to Vale's success and as stated earlier on in this thread he made good signings that Lou benifeted from.Mick Mills did not take us into the 3rd league,he saved us from it. Great debating though on this thread,love reading fellow stokie's thought's on this. Stenny.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 22:32:43 GMT
Also Davef i would like to see the Oatcake editorial from the time.I am not a trouble maker,but i remember the early Oatcake edition's were after MM's blood. Stenny.
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Post by Davef on Oct 11, 2008 22:36:51 GMT
The emergence of the Vale was an irrelevance really. Mills had pretty much lost the plot two seasons before they arrived on the scene.
When he was criticised, he claimed that it would take £1M to get Stoke into the First Division, and when he was given it he guided us to the foot of the table.
His last 30 matches in charge saw us win just twice. He was a poor manager who kept his job a season and a half longer than he should have.
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Post by swampySCFC on Oct 11, 2008 22:37:23 GMT
Millsy also signed Bertie Biggins, one of our greatest ever strikers
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 22:49:03 GMT
The emergence of the Vale was an irrelevance really. Mills had pretty much lost the plot two seasons before they arrived on the scene. When he was criticised, he claimed that it would take £1M to get Stoke into the First Division, and when he was given it he guided us to the foot of the table. His last 30 matches in charge saw us win just twice. He was a poor manager who kept his job a season and a half longer than he should have. Sorry mate i disagree(great being a stokie wth a opinion).I can't believe you say MM had llost the plot 2 seasons before Vale arrived on the season.We wer making steady progress but the board panicked and gave vale the iniative.Vale had massive momentum at that time and we had no way of stopping it.Mills was a victim,many others followed. By the way i am not trying to cause trouble,just debate.Which brings me back to the Oatcakes stance on Mills.
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