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Post by luke45 on Nov 17, 2010 23:49:09 GMT
I can't think of a better alternative to play at right-back for England in their next game at the moment. He's been showing great form for Everton all season, defensively solid and supports his winger well.
Johnson is a liability, Richards's form is inconsistent, Gary Neville is past it, Phil Jagielka is a centre-back, after these names you're scrapping the barrel really.
I'd seriously recall him and start him at right-back in England's next fixture.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 17, 2010 23:50:51 GMT
Wilkoooo
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Post by luke45 on Nov 17, 2010 23:53:10 GMT
Wilko would certainly do a damn sight better job than what Jagielka did tonight! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 17, 2010 23:53:59 GMT
Onuoha.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 17, 2010 23:55:23 GMT
Jesus christ you know things are beyond shocking when the words Phil Neville and best are mentioned in the same sentence.
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 17, 2010 23:57:20 GMT
Well in the last week or so he has marked Gareth Bale pretty much out of a game and scored a superb goal at the home of the Champions, but that was preceded by an absolute horror-show against the mags. He is very inconsistent atm. Still, if Jaglielka can get a game at right back... |
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Post by luke45 on Nov 17, 2010 23:58:04 GMT
That's not a bad shout, I'd certainly consider him for the next squad. Isn't he predominantly a centre-back though? |
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Post by Roy Cropper on Nov 18, 2010 0:01:32 GMT
What happened to proper full-backs?
Not centre backs come full-back, and I don't mean the Brazilian over-lappers who are basically extra wingers.
I mean the hard bastards who could also play a bit and support there winger, perhaps putting in the odd decent cross? Basically a vastly upgraded version of Wilko.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 0:01:58 GMT
Well in the last week or so he has marked Gareth Bale pretty much out of a game and scored a superb goal at the home of the Champions, but that was preceded by an absolute horror-show against the mags. He is very inconsistent atm. Still, if Jaglielka can get a game at right back... I've rated him for a good 2/3 years now, he's a proper defender and has showed he knows what to do attacking wise as well. And he's good for an international squad because he's equally good at centre half and at right back. He's better than Boyatta shite they have at the back currently at Man City. Thought Henderson was very anonymous tonight, early days yet though obviously! |
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 0:03:31 GMT
That's not a bad shout, I'd certainly consider him for the next squad. Isn't he predominantly a centre-back though? The way he scampered forward again you lot to make the first goal and waltzed through the Chelsea defence suggests he is a full back to me. He would be wasted at centre back. I think he would probably consider himself a centre back, but he has spent his formative years at full back and that is what he is whether he likes it or not really. He is a good player, but hopefully things like International call-ups come only AFTER we have negotiated a fee for him with Man City  |
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 0:07:54 GMT
Well in the last week or so he has marked Gareth Bale pretty much out of a game and scored a superb goal at the home of the Champions, but that was preceded by an absolute horror-show against the mags. He is very inconsistent atm. Still, if Jaglielka can get a game at right back... I've rated him for a good 2/3 years now, he's a proper defender and has showed he knows what to do attacking wise as well. And he's good for an international squad because he's equally good at centre half and at right back. He's better than Boyatta shite they have at the back currently at Man City. Thought Henderson was very anonymous tonight, early days yet though obviously! I thought Henderson did well tonight tbh. 20 years old and making his England debut against a good side, I think all he could really do is put in a solid shift, look after the ball, and leave the senior pros with the responsibility for the rest. I think he did that. Very strange that Capello used him as a defensive, almost holding, player tonight. That is not his game at all. He has amazing energy and it is wasted if he isn't allowed to move from a defensive position. Mind, I'd love to see some statistics from the game tonight because I can't remember him really giving the ball away, certainly not cheaply anyway. A quiet debut is probably what we need for him to curb all this transfer speculation. |
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Post by bcfc4life88 on Nov 18, 2010 0:08:14 GMT
sod that don't want that turd anywhere near the england team lets drop down to clevedon i hear they have some talented defenders....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 0:10:31 GMT
I didn't notice him until he got booked. ;D I thought on the whole we were bollocks tonight, thought Carroll did well with the scraps he had mind. We needed wingers that could cross though, the best cross came from Stevie G.
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 18, 2010 0:14:13 GMT
I've rated him for a good 2/3 years now, he's a proper defender and has showed he knows what to do attacking wise as well. And he's good for an international squad because he's equally good at centre half and at right back. He's better than Boyatta shite they have at the back currently at Man City. Thought Henderson was very anonymous tonight, early days yet though obviously! I thought Henderson did well tonight tbh. 20 years old and making his England debut against a good side, I think all he could really do is put in a solid shift, look after the ball, and leave the senior pros with the responsibility for the rest. I think he did that. Very strange that Capello used him as a defensive, almost holding, player tonight. That is not his game at all. He has amazing energy and it is wasted if he isn't allowed to move from a defensive position. Mind, I'd love to see some statistics from the game tonight because I can't remember him really giving the ball away, certainly not cheaply anyway. A quiet debut is probably what we need for him to curb all this transfer speculation. Perhaps it would have been worth experimenting with him as the more advanced midfielder when Gerrard went off? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 0:21:29 GMT
What I expect (and hope) from the players who play there in the long run is that they model themselves on Schweinsteiger (sp) he played the defensive midfield role beautifully but he got forward and still managed to maintain his defensive duties.
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Post by withnall on Nov 18, 2010 0:23:47 GMT
Phil Neville isn't even the best person named Phil Neville to be considered as full back.
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Post by PoisonedDonkey on Nov 18, 2010 0:49:23 GMT
If he was quicker I'd stick him in. Seriously. |
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 1:05:28 GMT
I thought Henderson did well tonight tbh. 20 years old and making his England debut against a good side, I think all he could really do is put in a solid shift, look after the ball, and leave the senior pros with the responsibility for the rest. I think he did that. Very strange that Capello used him as a defensive, almost holding, player tonight. That is not his game at all. He has amazing energy and it is wasted if he isn't allowed to move from a defensive position. Mind, I'd love to see some statistics from the game tonight because I can't remember him really giving the ball away, certainly not cheaply anyway. A quiet debut is probably what we need for him to curb all this transfer speculation. Perhaps it would have been worth experimenting with him as the more advanced midfielder when Gerrard went off? He was released a little there and became more of an attacking influence. I remember 2 passes in particular were absolute peaches form Henderson. One he thread through for Milner who was a good first touch away from a one-on-one, and one where he played Johnson through late in the game. All in all, I thought he was very decent on his debut. Not world-beating by any means, but didn't look out of place either. He was far more capable and comfortable than Barry, certainly. When Gerrard moved deeper to partner Henderson after half time I thought his attitude was the exact opposite of what was needed from England's senior players on the night. He was piling forward, very irresponsibly, seeking glory and leaving the 20 year old rookie behind him to get a bit swamped. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 1:16:03 GMT
Looked too early for him imo, the twatter journo's reckon he'll be in the squad for the Argies which is fair but the overall feeling from them too is that it was too early as well. He was better than Barry but so is my Gran and she's been dead for about 10 years  It'll be nice to see how he does next time to see if he improves and gets a foothold in the game. Can't see him being picked for the full matches though. When is the U-21 competition? He should be in that along with any bugger else that is qualified (Carroll, Gibbs, Wilshire etc) to get valuable torunament time and progress in that way. |
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 1:25:43 GMT
Looked too early for him imo, the twatter journo's reckon he'll be in the squad for the Argies which is fair but the overall feeling from them too is that it was too early as well. He was better than Barry but so is my Gran and she's been dead for about 10 years It'll be nice to see how he does next time to see if he improves and gets a foothold in the game. Can't see him being picked for the full matches though. When is the U-21 competition? He should be in that along with any bugger else that is qualified (Carroll, Gibbs, Wilshire etc) to get valuable torunament time and progress in that way. Well no reason why he can't carry on being involved for England at full international level and then go away with the u-21s in the summer. England didn't have a single good performer tonight so if you say it shows Henderson is not ready then it also shows that every opther player is either not ready or completely past it. Henderson was as solid as anyone else. Easy to blame the kids, but not as if they are disrupting a massively successful squad and system. No real point in getting them involved at this stage of their careers if you are wanting the finished product. Might as well keep them around, and add more too them in the squad, so that they can grow into International football. Look at Milner, for example... kept at u-21 level for years despite us all knowing he would be good enough, and then by the time he gets into the full squad it takes him another couple of years at least to adapt to it. Follow the German model, I say. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 1:33:55 GMT
I wouldn't pick him for the full qualifiers if I'm being honest, Scotty Parker should be definitely in there for one. And I'm not blaming him, he just didn't look ready to me and that's why it'll be interesting to see how does against the Argies. I would like to see Rodwell given a game too, I think he's bloody awesome but like Henderson it will be good to see how he does. As for Milner he should probably the deeper role now or on the right so he can get crosses in.
We missed that ability tonight and the best cross was made by Gerrard but Carroll was a bit too far from goal. I thought Carroll and Gerrard were decent but the former lacked any good service and with Walcott on the wing that is no surprise. Pennant would be better and that's not just me with my rose specs on. Walcott isn't a winger, he can't cross for toffee and should be utilised down the middle against tiring defences. As for the back 4, God and only knows where to start with them. Onuoha should be given a game, as should Cahill. And again the rose tinters (actually they are taken off) say Shawcross should be in there ahead of Lescott and Richards.
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 1:45:28 GMT
I wouldn't pick him for the full qualifiers if I'm being honest, Scotty Parker should be definitely in there for one. And I'm not blaming him, he just didn't look ready to me and that's why it'll be interesting to see how does against the Argies. I would like to see Rodwell given a game too, I think he's bloody awesome but like Henderson it will be good to see how he does. As for Milner he should probably the deeper role now or on the right so he can get crosses in. We missed that ability tonight and the best cross was made by Gerrard but Carroll was a bit too far from goal. I thought Carroll and Gerrard were decent but the former lacked any good service and with Walcott on the wing that is no surprise. Pennant would be better and that's not just me with my rose specs on. Walcott isn't a winger, he can't cross for toffee and should be utilised down the middle against tiring defences. As for the back 4, God and only knows where to start with them. Onuoha should be given a game, as should Cahill. And again the rose tinters (actually they are taken off) say Shawcross should be in there ahead of Lescott and Richards. I think Carroll is a cracking player but was no great shakes tonight. Thought he was meat and drink for the French centre backs. Gerrard was at fault for the second goal and if it had been anyone else in the side he'd have been butchered for it. Except one game against the Argies in 2000, and a thrashing of a poor German side, no English player has done anything notable against the bigger footballing powers for 20 years really, so very harsh to judge anyone on games against France and Argentina. If we are at all serious about building for the future then we have to commit to these young players and support them. Not at the expense of the core players we need for the qualifiers, but they are certainly preferable to "never will be's" in the squad. Keep them involved, the likes of Henderson and Carroll, and get Rodwell, Wilshire, Jones, Albrighton etc in too. The country will be better off in the long run having them sat on the bench and getting minutes for England than they would be with the likes of Barry, SWP, Lescott, Jaglielka, Carrick et al. I certainly don't think we should be relying on youth for the qualifiers, but I think it is important to strike a balance between keeping them involved and reducing the responsibility on them. |
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Post by boothy on Nov 18, 2010 1:47:37 GMT
As for Milner he should probably the deeper role now or on the right so he can get crosses in. Well he certainly shouldn't be playing on the left that's for sure, he's a tad one footed. I don't mind us playing someone in a deeper role supporting in terms of the more defensive side of things, just as long as it isn't Barry. Out of the squad from yesterday it should have been Milner, at least he works 'aaarrd and can pass a ball alright, most of the time. It should be Rodwell, Huddlestone or Milner with Gerrard playing next to them. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 1:50:55 GMT
I thought he did well with the non-existent service and out of them all he looked the best English youngster out there. I agree to an extent but it should be based on performance as well and Henderson for me at least just didn't do anything to impress. He deserves another chance and with his age will get plenty but I do think it's probably a bit too early for the lad. If Capello wants to play him in that role though he should give him Scweinsteiger DVD's to show him what we want from him. And their 20 year old central midfielder looked like the dogs bollocks sadly! |
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 18, 2010 1:56:23 GMT
I thought Henderson did alright tonight. Fuck knows who to play at RB though.
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 2:02:42 GMT
I thought he did well with the non-existent service and out of them all he looked the best English youngster out there. I agree to an extent but it should be based on performance as well and Henderson for me at least just didn't do anything to impress. He deserves another chance and with his age will get plenty but I do think it's probably a bit too early for the lad. If Capello wants to play him in that role though he should give him Scweinsteiger DVD's to show him what we want from him. And their 20 year old central midfielder looked like the dogs bollocks sadly! Strikers will always ctach the eye more. It has always been thus and it always will be. Easy to excuse Carroll with the "no service" excuse but nothing said of the fact that between Barry's total inability to use his right foot meant he played with his back to Henderson for 45 minutes, Gerrards obsessive and selfish glory chasing, and Lescott's obsession with hoofing it, meant Henderson's supply line was just as effected. But, like I said, I would be very interested to see Henderson's stats from that game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him with the highest pass completion rate of any England player by an absolute mile. For a 20 year old kid, making his debut against a calibre of opposition barely no England team has managed to worry for years, and in an unfamiliar role, the kid definitely did ok.  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 2:08:49 GMT
I must admit Captain, a quick scan of the papers shows that the opinion of Henderson tonight is more along my lines than Yours. I know it doesn't mean much but there seems to be a bit of a concensus that it was too early for him but Barry was worse. ;D
Henderson has the ability to get his foot on the ball and has the opportunity to get the ball from his counterparts earlier to get a foothold in the game, he didn't do it. Which is understandable due to his age but he didn't even try to address the balance imo.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 18, 2010 2:09:12 GMT
I thought he did well with the non-existent service and out of them all he looked the best English youngster out there. I agree to an extent but it should be based on performance as well and Henderson for me at least just didn't do anything to impress. He deserves another chance and with his age will get plenty but I do think it's probably a bit too early for the lad. If Capello wants to play him in that role though he should give him Scweinsteiger DVD's to show him what we want from him. And their 20 year old central midfielder looked like the dogs bollocks sadly! Strikers will always ctach the eye more. It has always been thus and it always will be. Easy to excuse Carroll with the "no service" excuse but nothing said of the fact that between Barry's total inability to use his right foot meant he played with his back to Henderson for 45 minutes, Gerrards obsessive and selfish glory chasing, and Lescott's obsession with hoofing it, meant Henderson's supply line was just as effected. But, like I said, I would be very interested to see Henderson's stats from that game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him with the highest pass completion rate of any England player by an absolute mile. For a 20 year old kid, making his debut against a calibre of opposition barely no England team has managed to worry for years, and in an unfamiliar role, the kid definitely did ok. To be fair cap'n, Gerrard's "obsessive and selfish glory chasing" was probably the only way England were ever going to score tonight... |
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Post by captainfishpaste on Nov 18, 2010 2:49:42 GMT
I must admit Captain, a quick scan of the papers shows that the opinion of Henderson tonight is more along my lines than Yours. I know it doesn't mean much but there seems to be a bit of a concensus that it was too early for him but Barry was worse. ;D Henderson has the ability to get his foot on the ball and has the opportunity to get the ball from his counterparts earlier to get a foothold in the game, he didn't do it. Which is understandable due to his age but he didn't even try to address the balance imo. Well, the time I give any credence to the papers is the day I pack in all together. Darren Bent hit 24 goals in the Premier League and the prevailant opinion in the glorious national press was that he was rightly left behind for the World Cup. I watched the ONLY Englishman to ever win The European Golden Boot and the national press told us he wasn't good enough for England. I have listened to the national press tell me all week that the reason Chelsea lost and were outclassed on Sunday wasn't because of the opposition, but because Ray Wilkins had left. The national press have had Luca Modric plastered all over their papers recently crying over being tackled, yet they never mentioned a thing when almost a year to the day on the same ground Jermain Defoe stamped on our goalkeeper forcing him to have a metal plate screwed into his arm for the rest of his career. The point I am making is that the national press have their own agenda and clubs like Sunderland to not sell their papers for them, and they will always look after the ones who do. Most of them couldn't tell a footballer from a florist, either. Carroll pops out of the French defenders' pockets for just enough to win a couple of headers without ever really threatening their goal and he is lauded whilst Henderson keeps the ball better than any Englishman on the pitch and he is criticized. Only in this country. ;D |
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 18, 2010 2:56:21 GMT
Agree with your overall point cap'n, but Carroll was as good as anyone on the pitch for England tonight, and stood out more than Henderson (like you say, probably because he's a forward). He was very good in the air and won the ball well.
I thought they both did well in a totally meaningless, bog-standard pedestrian England display.
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It'll be nice to see how he does next time to see if he improves and gets a foothold in the game. Can't see him being picked for the full matches though. When is the U-21 competition? He should be in that along with any bugger else that is qualified (Carroll, Gibbs, Wilshire etc) to get valuable torunament time and progress in that way. 
