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Post by PickSCFC on Sept 16, 2010 11:50:03 GMT
our 4 main striking options are imo are jones, fuller, eg and tuncay. As of now i would start with jones and fuller, you then have tunny to be able to come on as an impact sub and eg also to be a great impact player that can hold the ball up and bring others into play. Walters should be used out wide only now as he is nowhere near as good as these up top. I think we may see TP tinkering with these strikers throughout the season.
our strike force is better than most in the league now
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 11:51:07 GMT
our strike force is better than most in the league now I was thinking the same thing this morning. Outside of Arsenal, Man Utd + Chelsea there's not many others I'd swap with. We've got plenty of quality options now. |
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Post by scfcloyalist on Sept 16, 2010 11:55:25 GMT
Agree but would start with tuncay and jones, with fuller coming off the bench, Monday the perfect example why he's best coming off the bench.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 16, 2010 12:03:12 GMT
Fuller and Ken every day of the week.
We need our best combination on to try and get the first goal in games.
Impact sub , schimpact sub. It's a load of absolute garbage.
The team that gets the first goal wins 70% of the time.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 16, 2010 12:18:35 GMT
Impact sub , schimpact sub. It's a load of absolute garbage. ^^^This.^^^ It really does want putting to bed for once and all. One of the major facets of our game is set pieces, be it free kicks, throw-ins or corners and soooooo many of these set pieces come from Ricardo Fuller. On Monday, Jones and Walters didn't win anything like the same number for us that Ric would have done had he been on the pitch, in effect we were denying ourselves a majore element of our own game plan by leaving him on the bench. To say that Ric is more effective coming on against tired defenders is an argument that can be used for any forward. Do you think that Eidur or Tuncay (or whoever) would be more effective against tired defenders or ones with fresh legs? Indeed the logic to me, should be to absolutely shatter the oppositions defence with the pace of Matty, Jermain, Jones and Ric for an hour, before bringing the likes of Eidur or Tuncay, that is of course if any of strikers actually need to be replaced. Ask Gabidon and Upson which Stoke City player they would most like to see sitting on the bench when they leave the tunnel on Saturday and you can bet your bottom dollar that that player would be Ricardo Fuller. |
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Post by sufolkstokie on Sept 16, 2010 12:22:30 GMT
Fuller and Ken every day of the week. We need our best combination on to try and get the first goal in games. Impact sub , schimpact sub. It's a load of absolute garbage. The team that gets the first goal wins 70% of the time. Totally agree |
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Post by stokerambler on Sept 16, 2010 12:37:02 GMT
We may have a strike force to be reckoned with but will TP use them to maximum advantage? He is naturally conservative. That was illustrated on Monday when he opted to start with Walters alongside Jones and Delap on the right. Yes, we won but only once TP swapped the two for Fuller and Pennant.
If ever there was a team worth going at from the outset it is West Ham on Saturday. But I fear we will once again see TP's conservatism...
PS No disrespect to Walters but we have better options upfront.
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Post by Targaryen Stokie on Sept 16, 2010 12:40:27 GMT
The team that gets the first goal wins 70% of the time. Can't argue with that quote. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 12:58:07 GMT
Saying "use Ric as an impact sub" effectively equates to saying "don't bother playing until an hour in and hope that we're not 3-0 down by then"
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Sept 16, 2010 13:11:59 GMT
I suppose this 'impact' substitution first cam along with David Fairclough at Liverpool who was dubbed the first 'super sub'.
People conveniently forget that the reason he was substitute in the first place was that Liverpool had far better strikers than him on the pitch FROM THE START.
We should ALWAYS start with our best strike force and only change things when things just aren't happening for them.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 16, 2010 13:30:07 GMT
How important is the first goal in domestic matches?
Figures from Premier League games during the past 10 seasons in which at least one goal was scored show that in 69% of those matches the team who scored first won. And in 89%, the team who scored first did not lose.
If you're going to be keeping Fuller up your sleeve 'til the 65th-70th minute, you've got to be pretty sure that there'll still be a potentially decisive 'impact' to be made in that small window
If not, you've wasted him, and robbed him of the chance of making an impact during the most decisive, table-setting first 2/3 of the game - during which he would also have been potentially our most potent weapon.
If you had a fit Gudjohnsen, who was operating somewhere near to his Chelsea form, you could just about make a coherent case for it, but when you're talking about someone as limited, at this level, as Jon Walters, it looks a bit bonkers.
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Post by mysteriojr on Sept 16, 2010 13:58:53 GMT
Saying "use Ric as an impact sub" effectively equates to saying "don't bother playing until an hour in and hope that we're not 3-0 down by then" +1 |
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Post by mysteriojr on Sept 16, 2010 14:01:08 GMT
How important is the first goal in domestic matches?
Figures from Premier League games during the past 10 seasons in which at least one goal was scored show that in 69% of those matches the team who scored first won. And in 89%, the team who scored first did not lose.If you're going to be keeping Fuller up your sleeve 'til the 65th-70th minute, you've got to be pretty sure that there'll still be a potentially decisive 'impact' to be made in that small window If not, you've wasted him, and robbed him of the chance of making an impact during the most decisive, table-setting first 2/3 of the game - during which he would also have been potentially our most potent weapon. If you had a fit Gudjohnsen, who was operating somewhere near to his Chelsea form, you could just about make a coherent case for it, but when you're talking about someone as limited, at this level, as Jon Walters, it looks a bit bonkers. +2 |
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Post by staffordstokiemad on Sept 16, 2010 14:34:08 GMT
I would go for Jones and Fuller.
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Post by RAF on Sept 16, 2010 14:41:27 GMT
Don't let Lakeland hear you say that, he'll hit you with his handbag!
H
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Sept 16, 2010 14:46:22 GMT
I sometimes think TP would like games to be half the time they are ? It seems we sample for the first half and then put things right the second half. Why not just do it right from the start ?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Sept 16, 2010 15:58:00 GMT
interesting that nobody suggests that Eidur should be starting upfront but Im pretty confident that will be the case once his fitness makes him ready.
EG did not come to Stoke for the glamour of sitting on the bench and Im positive TP must have promised him regular first team football to come.
Cant work out who he will drop though to play Eidur. Does he seem his as a replacement for Jones? Probably not so I reckon it will be Jones and EG with Fuller to come off the bench.
Of course that leaves us short of pace upfront but I reckon Eidur can make up for that with his excellent close control and finishing ability. Think Gudjonsen could easily score 15+ goals for us this season and become the main man.
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Post by march4 on Sept 16, 2010 16:51:46 GMT
I think TP sees his forward options as;
1 KJ
2 EG
3 Ric
4 Mama
5 Walters
In that order.
After Monday, I would be surprised to see Tuncay get anywhere near the pitch unless we have an injury crisis.
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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Sept 16, 2010 16:54:48 GMT
I think TP sees his forward options as; 1 KJ 2 EG 3 Ric 4 Mama 5 Walters In that order. After Monday, I would be surprised to see Tuncay get anywhere near the pitch unless we have an injury crisis. What like your number 4 choice you mean  |
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Post by march4 on Sept 16, 2010 16:57:17 GMT
I think TP sees his forward options as; 1 KJ 2 EG 3 Ric 4 Mama 5 Walters In that order. After Monday, I would be surprised to see Tuncay get anywhere near the pitch unless we have an injury crisis. What like your number 4 choice you mean We have to hang on this season until Mama is fit and leads us to a wonderful vein of form (just like last season). Mama is KJ's deputy and KJ will not play every game. |
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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Sept 16, 2010 16:59:48 GMT
Hang on for Mama, oh dear, God help us as we are doomed  |
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Post by march4 on Sept 16, 2010 17:01:17 GMT
Hang on for Mama, oh dear, God help us as we are doomed Like last season ;D ;D |
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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Sept 16, 2010 17:04:42 GMT
Mama did a job for Stoke, no doubt about it but it's time to move on and improve. Mama's only real skill was receiving a hoofball with his back to the goal and laying it off, thats about it really. Surely we are better than that with the influx of new players.
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Post by SussexStokie on Sept 16, 2010 17:09:48 GMT
With the strength of our strikers if we ever again have to depend on Mama, as a previous poster said, we will be doomed!
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Post by march4 on Sept 16, 2010 17:11:36 GMT
Mama did a job for Stoke, no doubt about it but it's time to move on and improve. Mama's only real skill was receiving a hoofball with his back to the goal and laying it off, thats about it really. Surely we are better than that with the influx of new players. With KJ out for a game, there is no one better at the club than Mama at playing the Mama role. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 16, 2010 17:13:41 GMT
Mama did a job for Stoke, no doubt about it but it's time to move on and improve. Mama's only real skill was receiving a hoofball with his back to the goal and laying it off, thats about it really. Surely we are better than that with the influx of new players. With KJ out for a game, there is no one better at the club than Mama at playing the Mama role. In KJ's absence, you'd think Walters, for one, would be ahead of him in the target man pecking order, even when Mama's fit though. I'm still confused as to whether Gudjohnsen will be considered for the withdrawn role at any point |
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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Sept 16, 2010 17:15:18 GMT
Mama did a job for Stoke, no doubt about it but it's time to move on and improve. Mama's only real skill was receiving a hoofball with his back to the goal and laying it off, thats about it really. Surely we are better than that with the influx of new players. With KJ out for a game, there is no one better at the club than Mama at playing the Mama role. Do we really need a "Mama role"? We have far better players at the club now who can actually play football. Lets try passing the bloody ball instead of hoofing it up the pitch hoping to find someone on the end of it. |
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Post by SussexStokie on Sept 16, 2010 17:15:48 GMT
I agree there certainly is no one at the club who can play the Mama role, thank goodness!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 17:19:24 GMT
With KJ out for a game, there is no one better at the club than Mama at playing the Mama role. Do we really need a "Mama role"? We have far better players at the club now who can actually play football. Lets try passing the bloody ball instead of hoofing it up the pitch hoping to find someone on the end of it. Yes - it's got us this far and Pulis isn't about to change his spots. He's said so himself. What we can hope for is that the Mama role evolves, so that we see the player in that position not just a lump who wins it in the air and not much else (like Mama) but one with some mobility and goal threat who's good on the deck as well. Happily, both Jones and Walters look capable of doing this. |
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Post by u2oxeterstokie on Sept 16, 2010 17:24:20 GMT
Do we really need a "Mama role"? We have far better players at the club now who can actually play football. Lets try passing the bloody ball instead of hoofing it up the pitch hoping to find someone on the end of it. Yes - it's got us this far and Pulis isn't about to change his spots. He's said so himself. What we can hope for is that the Mama role evolves, so that we see the player in that position not just a lump who wins it in the air and not much else (like Mama) but one with some mobility and goal threat who's good on the deck as well. Happily, both Jones and Walters look capable of doing this. But then thats not the Mama role is it?! As I said earlier, lets play football and start passing the ball. And for the record, at the end of last season Pulis said in an interview that he needed to change the way we play as we have been found out, hence the footballing players we have just got in. |
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