The Utilitarianism of Mr Tony Pulis Esq

[GeordieDave]

Utilitarianism is the ethical doctrine that the moral worth of an action is solely determined by its contribution to overall utility. It is thus a form of consequentialism, meaning that the moral worth of an action is determined by its outcome—the ends justify the means. In simplistic terms it is "the greatest good for the greatest number", though the 'greatest number' part gives rise to a more problematic paradox.....

I didn’t attend the game on Saturday, it was my daughter’s birthday and I decided to use my limited pink slips on the Wednesday and Coventry away games and the Bristol City home match. So in essence I can’t comment on the performance per se as I wasn’t there, however, like most exiles I’ve devoured every single article available about the game online and in print and have spoken to several Stokies who did attend who were eager to share their observations.

Saturday was one of the few games I didn’t listen to via the Match Console feed as I was out for a family lunch so kept up to date with the game via text (cheers Pete, Tim & Dave) and t’internet on my phone.

Like many I struggled to get my head around the line-up. It didn’t make sense and I couldn’t fathom whether he was playing five at the back or pushing Dicko into a defensive wing-back role at the expense of Pugh. I also couldn’t fathom if he was playing 352 or 541 or 532 as the team looked imbalanced. What was clear was the negativity of the line up and the clear intent of lining up for a point.

The texts started dropping in around 245pm and they were abusive to say the least as the Stokies I knew were clearly spitting feathers.

The half time analysis was equally damning and by full-time I thought the three lads I knew at the game were going to hang themselves.

I struggled with this, for this was a point won as all around us were losing us. We’d gone back top and had a home game to come, we, God willing should be top going into the last half dozen games of the season, a situation that seemed implausible, nay impossible, when I witnessed that tripe at Hull earlier in the season.

Having had a healthy lunch, plenty to drink and a barrage of nearly fifty texts between 245pm and 1730 I ventured on the board with some trepidation for a post-match catch up and review. I went to bed cursing one Tony Pulis and moaning my head off to a disinterested wife and Toon supporting twelve year old.

Sunday didn’t help, the media went for the jugular, and we were, allegedly, fucking awful. We betrayed the principals of Stoke City FC (although I can’t recall anything too pretty since 1983) and were an embarrassment.

It wasn’t until I got into work this morning and chatted to the Geordies and Mackems that the result started to sink in. For these buggers up here would gladly take a point and no shots on goal at Brum tonight.

Now I’m stuck, I can’t make my mind up. Point won, two lost? I guess the former rather than the latter and Pulis and his negative gamble clearly paid off.

That said I’m still sulking. I don’t want Stoke to be promoted as the most hated team in the Championship. Promotion is about glory and there is something inglorious about Stoke at the moment. This campaign will be a much, much greater achievement than 93 should we reach the “promised land” but we’ll win very few friends (and supporters) along the way.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Stoke forever.

[troj]

nice one dave but i think we're all watforded out now.

[GeordieDave]

Aye mate, I understand. On to Blackpool. I just needed to get it off my chest. First proper opportunity.

[troj]

Spot on buddy - either way ... lovin' your work Dave!

[winger]

It's all great material for thinking men like you and I Dave. It's awkward isn't it: I saw us play for 180 mins last week and I can honestly say I got more pleasure out of watching the finish to any of seven or eight races down at Cheltenham than I did out of that three hours of attrition.

A lot of our crowd couldn't give two fcuks though, winning is all & that is that.

[ted1965]

I honestly think many have never seen us at the top level and therefore they will accept anything as long as it gets us promoted.

[mcf]

4 points from 2 away games is what it is all about you Pulis Hating Wankstains.

We need the money from the Premiership to make us a better club, with better players.

[apb1]

Nice post Dave - but the cognoscenti/art appreciation lobby are a bit patronising methinks.

Maybe some people HAVE seen us at the top level, but realise that our only hope of financial sustainability (which might one day allow us to see some great players don the shirt again) is to get promoted. West Brom, Charlton have the money to attract more than their fair share of quality, flair players due to this simple fact.

This season our football has, in spells, been very attractive. However, we are now at the stage where I genuinely do not give a flying one how we grind out results, providing we make it. And football IS about more than simple entertainment, the crowd IS more than just an audience. I enjoyed myself at Watford not because of our 'football' but the day out, the penno save, the red card, and the point.

1-0, 0-0, 1-0, 0-0, 1-0, 0-0, 1-0 is a sequence I'm sure all Stokies could cope with right now. Anyone know a manager with that in his repertoire? ;D

[ParaPsych]

At such a late stage in the season I really don't care. I'd like the think the end justifies the means, as I'd rather shout abuse at Christiano Ronaldo than Karl Henry.

[winger]

You'll never get a ticket para. It'll be full of Glory Hunting Wankstains.

[MrMagic]

What happens, assuming that we do go a little cautious over the next few games, if we miss out?????

This is the concern that most folk that I've spoken to have, not at this stage of the season how pretty it is.

Playing a striker in midfield is not in my opinion "going for it". And the common view on how to play against 10 men seems to be around ball retention and width rather than sitting back.

However, Tony did seem as non-plussed as the rest of us when he was interviewed on RStoke, so hopefully it was just a blip, and we will go on to claim plenty more points and retain our position.

[mcf]

Wingnut

We will have season tickets to renew.

[winger]

I know. It was my little 'joke.'

Nice to see you'd put in the effort to be at Watford on Saturday & help shout the lads over the line, by the way.

[mcf]

I didn't land from Malaga until 2.30pm.

I was cutting it fine even from Manchester.

[winger]

I don't know how people can travel away at this stage of the season. V. bad planning.

[apb1]

mrmagic said:

What happens, assuming that we do go a little cautious over the next few games, if we miss out?????

A fair point. My hope is that having sorted the back 8 ;D out, our front 2 can start scoring/making goals as they were doing a few weeks back.

[mcf]

This piece of work required my presence whereas you can miss out important chapters on a laptop from any location.

[sheikhmomo]

winger said:

I don't know how people can travel away at this stage of the season. V. bad planning.

[ParaPsych]

Very self aware from winger.

But I don't know what on earth he was talking about in the Sentinel the other day.

[GeordieDave]

For the most part I dont have a problem with being cautious, especially away from home and especially at one of your major challengers for promotion and I'm also intelligent/sensible enough to know that a point at Watford is a good result. Whatever the performance.

In the grand scheme of things its one point banked and gained from a fixture that many of us, including me, had down as a defeat in our own mini-calculations from now until the end of the season.

What worries me most is the manner of the performance. We had in typical Pulis style no Plan B and had Watford converted one of many chances I dont know how we'd have turned a loss into a draw.

In fairness to TP it is common sense to play deep first twenty, take the sting out of the home team and to silence the home crowd. I understand this and had I been in the dug-out would have been setting us up the same way, well at least in mentality, not in system.

To trial a new system this late in the season is suicidal, and we were very lucky to get away with it. From a psycological perspective it sends out the wrong messages to the players, fans and media. We need all the momentum we can get.

When Eustace went TP should have mixed it up and changed his system. He should have taken the game to them and kept ball and made them work their socks off. We didnt, we nearly paid dearly.

Now I'll accept its a point won and the end does justify the means on this occasion, but thats only good if we go up.

Lets not forget that if Watford win the game in hand they go above us on goal difference and I'd argue that when they went down to ten men we had a real chance to put distance between us and them.

We are, assuming WBA and Watford win game in hand sat in third spot. Many forget this. Its not in our own hands now, we're fucked if WBA and Watford win their game/s in hand. Again based on us matching them result for result.

We had a golden opportunity, we bottled it. If we go up its a great point, if we finish third on GD to Watford Tony Pulis wants fucking hanging.

Its a results business when all said and done. Tony took a gamble, lets hope it doesnt hurt us and lets hope its the point that saw us up !!

[apb1]

GD it wasn't just Pulis's fault on Saturday - in as far as he switched from his over-defensive formation and brought Gallagher on, he could be said to have 'gone for it' in his terms.

It was the players who kept giving the ball away. Surely he doesn't need to teach them to pass?

I took your original post to mean you were worried about 'winning ugly' - if it's 'losing because of excessive caution' you're worried about I'm with you 100%. We will find out in the next few weeks about our leaders on the pitch - just as important as Pulis if not more so.

[y_oh_y_delilah]

Lads, cutting through all the fine words and prose, last Saturday was a game we simply couldn't afford to lose. Maybe it was Pulis reverting to type, but quite simply - who cares. I look on it definitely as a point won AND more importantly keeps the three point margin between ourselves and third place Watford.
I can just imagine the recriminations today had the manager 'gone for it' and come away with nothing.
Now is a time to keep your cool and take a clear unobstructed view of the bigger picture. One point could prove vital but had Watford won the game effectively we would have been THREE points worse off than we are now.
I'm one of the lucky one's to have witnessed a 'great' Stoke City team in the highest division, but if we're ever going to get there again, results like last Saturday are absolutely vital.

[GeordieDave]

A bit of both apb, I dont particularly like winning ugly but am prepared to tolerate it if it means returning to the top flight for the first time since 1985. I'm not a fan of the Pulis style of football but doff my cap at the success its given us this year and also accept then when we've had the opportunity we've passed it about a bit too. Winning is a great drug. It goes against the grain of my core football philosophy to win ugly but accept it as a means to end so late in the season.

I do however loathe setting out to get a point as experience tells me you usually end up with nowt.

Will this caution carry into home games. I hope the fuck not. Too many examples last season of sitting back and inviting teams like Blackpool on to us.

We need to play with the same gusto and tempo that has seen us elevated to top position.

Its too late in the game to start fucking about with new systems. It will end in tears.

[mikeyb99]

The concerning thing wasn't the singular performance at Watford, but more the fact that it doesn't actually appear that we have pulled ourselves out of the rut that the Preston and QPR defeats left us in.

The football is awful, we look clueless on and off the ball, we have an inability to play basic passes and our best players have really gone off the boil. The spark and energy that took us to the top of the table simply isn't there. Pulis needs to sort it out, because we won't strike lucky in every game until the end of the season.

Thankfully those around us are dropping points too.

[GeordieDave]

YOYD, nail on head mate. But what if Watford win that game in hand? I agree though with what you say. Its a point won. However ugly. Time will tell if TP was right to be cautious.

[y_oh_y_delilah]

Dave, I honestly believe last Saturday was a one off and a means to an end. I think he's been adopting this approach for a few games now in fact and like you I don't particularly like it, but top of the league speaks for itself.
Now, is NOT the time to experiment but he was hardly experimenting last Saturday with the formation (what was the formation BTW! ), he set out with last Saturday.
One game at a time must be the motto and I think we'll see a completely different approach to next Saturday's game which like ourselves he will see as eminently winnable.
Hope so anyway!!

[devsad]

Have to say from my experience of the day most people seemed extremely happy with a point and that we had gone top of the league.
I think we have to give Watford a lot of credit for rising to the occasion and accept that we are going through a bad patch at the moment - all teams do at some time and there's not always much that the manager can do about it.
Tony obviously set his team up initially to try to prevent a loss which was fine by me. He did try to change it by bringing Gally on which was positive - I don't think you can fault the manager.
The form of some of the players is a cause for concern - notably Fuller.

By the way I have seen us play at the top level (as referred to above) but the result is always the biggest priority for me (ie. give me a crap game but a good result for Stoke over a great game but a loss to Stoke any day)

[FullerMagic]

As everyone's been saying a draw's by no means the end of the world, and we'd have all taken it at 2.59. And things have worked out okay, and I think we're probably favourites to go up as of this afternoon, looking at the run-ins.

But you can't help thinking we've missed a real chance to blow the league wide open, although the fact Watford have got to play West Brazil means it's probably still in our hands if we beat Bristol?


Leicester didn't do bad against 10 at West Brazil. Every game's different, but they were able to capitalise to the tune of 1-4 and three times as many shots on target.

Obviously you can't guarantee a 1-4 thrashing, or even a win (look at Wigan v Bolton) but you'd like to think you may AT LEAST find a way to edge the game territorially and have the odd good chance against tiring opponents- especially if you have pretensions of being a Premier League club?



And Wigan, despite winning after playing 85 mins with 10 yesterday, and Bruce calling their defence 'heroic' in the circumstances still had to really ride their luck at times

Maybe we were primed for a backs-to-the-wall display (although this flies in the face of what Kemp said pre-match and Pulis said post-match when both actually used the term 'have a real go at them' to describe how the team had been set up?)

Worrying that we couldn't slightly switch gears and gain any kind of foothold in the match and couldn't adjust tactically to gain an edge.

To have no periods of ascendancy in 70 minutes with a man advantage, and no goal attempt worthy of the name is pretty amazing however you look at it.

[GeordieDave]

How much form does Pulis have in terms of winning promotion? I'm afraid I dont know his CV well enough to know the ups and downs of his career. I know he is a manager with a rep for avoiding the drop.

Saturday was certainly an "avoid the drop" moment rather than a "win the league".....

He has to see Blackpool as winnable, despite his protestations we all know he'll have this down as three points. If he doesnt PC will and so will the 22,000 Stokies present !!!

Positive from the off Tone. And please, if we're one up at half time resist the urge to sit back. Blackpool CAN play, WILL play.

Hull/Cardiff in 07 anyone?

[OldStokie]

Good post, Dave. I tend to think of it as two points lost...3 actually if we count goal difference against Watford. However, we do have to remember that we had Lawrence missing and, despite my initial assessment of him, he's been one of the main reasons why we are where we are. Blackpool will show us whether it was a blip or not or whether Pulis is reverting into his shell when the going gets tough as he's done before.

OS.